The Instigator
shakuntala
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

1 number (10) + 1 number (20) = 1 number (30) thus maths ends in contradiction

Do you like this debate?NoYes-1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/20/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,018 times Debate No: 55075
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (2)

 

shakuntala

Pro

australias leading erotic poet colin leslie dean shows 1+1=1 thus maths ends in contradiction
http://www.scribd.com...
most say the most certain of things is 1+1= 2
but
1+1=1
1 number (10) + 1 number (20) = 1 number (30)

Thus mathematics ends in contradiction
Diqiucun_Cunmin

Con

I am of the belief that my opponent's argument is based on a disguised replacement of concept.

I base my arguments on empirical analysis. There are two similar but different operations that + can perform.

The first one is summing up one or more discrete or continuous data. I will coin this the counting sense of +.

1.1cm + 2.2cm = 3.3cm (continous data)
4 people + 6 people = 10 people

Note that two items of different units cannot be summed up in this type of addition, unless a conversion is executed (for continuous data) or the name of a superset is used (for discrete data).

1.1cm + 0.22mm = 1.1cm + 2.2cm = 3.3cm
4 boys + 6 girls is impossible. It must be changed to 4 kids + 6 kids = 10 kids

Note that an indefinite unit of something can also be viewed as discrete, thus:
1 pinch of salt + 1 pinch of salt = 2 pinches of salt (as the two pinches must not be assumed to be synthesised in the counting sense of +.

The second one involves synthesis. + is used as an informal representation and I will coin this use the synthesis sense of +.

Examples:
1 Dialect + 1 Army + 1 Navy = 1 Language (informal numerical representation of 'A language is a dialect with an army and a navy')
1 pinch of salt + 1 pinch of salt = 1 larger pinch of salt (the two pinches are combined together)
1 drop of water + 1 drop of water = 1 larger drop of water (the two drops of water are combined)
Coffee + Tea = Milk tea (the two types of tea are combined)

Note that in all of the above cases, the unit of the result is different from that of the operands.

Now, my opponent actually presents two sums:
10 + 20 = 30 (this is the counting sense of +)
This results in: 1 number + 1 number = 1 larger number (this is the synthesis sense of +)
Removing the units, we have 1 + 1 = 1. As the units (and therefore context) were removed, the reader will assume that it refers to the counting sense of +, wherein the sum would be invalid. However, the + here is actually used in the synthesis sense, where the result has a different unit from the operands.

If we were to use + in the counting sense, 1 number (10) + 1 number (20) would in fact produce 2 numbers (10 and 20). 1 + 1 = 2 is still satisfied.
Debate Round No. 1
shakuntala

Pro

con says
"Now, my opponent actually presents two sums:
10 + 20 = 30 (this is the counting sense of +)
This results in: 1 number + 1 number = 1 larger number (this is the synthesis sense of +)

"10 + 20 = 30 (this is the counting sense of +)
it is really very simple
+ means add together
so when we add together 10 a number with 20 a number we get 30 a number
or
1 number (10) + 1 number (20) = 1 number (30)
Thus mathematics ends in contradiction
Diqiucun_Cunmin

Con

My opponent states the + means 'add together'. I looked up the Oxford dictionary. Here are the (relevant) Oxford definitions:

a) Join (something) to something else so as to increase the size, number, or amount:
b) Put together (two or more numbers or amounts) to calculate their total value:

By saying 1 number + 1 number = 1 bigger number, you are doing a). You are combining the two items into one single item, analogous to combing one drop of water to anther drop to create a bigger drop.

If we were to apply b) to 1 number + 1 number, the result would be 2 numbers. This is because the unit in this sum is not whatever units 10, 20 and 30 carry, but 'number'. We should be summing up the numbers of numbers, not the values of the numbers. Thus 1 drop of water + 1 drop of water = 2 drops of water in this sense; we are adding the number of drops, not the water itself.

These are two different senses of 'add together' and thus obviously work by different principles.
Debate Round No. 2
shakuntala

Pro

con says
"a) Join (something) to something else so as to increase the size, number, or amount:
b) Put together (two or more numbers or amounts) to calculate their total value:"
it is very simple

if this was an orthodox maths con would accept that 1 apple + 1 apple= 2 apples
so
+ means add together
now dean uses maths idea of + to show maths ends in contradiction
1 number (10) + 1 number (20) = 1 number (30)

Thus mathematics ends in contradiction
Diqiucun_Cunmin

Con

I will remind my opponent again that the units are important.

If 1 number + 1 number is taken to be a normal mathematical expression, then one should add up the number of numbers while disregarding the values of the numbers. Thus 1 number + 1 number = 2 numbers, just as 1 drop of water + 1 drop of water = 2 drops of water.

If my opponent wishes to imply synthesis in 1 small number + 1 biggish number, then the result is 1 larger number, where the unit of the result differs from that of the operands. This would become an informal representation of the synthesis process rather than an actual sum.

10 + 20 = 30 is different from 1 number (10) + 1 number (20) = 1 number (30); the units of the operands are uncertain (but assumed to be common to both operands and the sum), rather than 'number' as in 1 number (10) + 1 number (20) = 1 number (30).
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Speceus 3 years ago
Speceus
I'm sorry but you must be kidding, you can't be that stupid.
Posted by ArcTImes 3 years ago
ArcTImes
Fallacy of equivocation.
Posted by Craighawley215 3 years ago
Craighawley215
"it is agreed by most that the most certain thing is
A)1+1=2
but dean shows 1+1=1
which contradicts A
thus maths is in contradiction as it proves contradictory things ie 1+1=2
and 1+1=1"

The math theory that you are subscribing to involves outside numbers. When its A(10) + A(20) = A(30), the A is not the focal point of the equation. The constants in parentheses are the focal points and A is effectively pointless. If you are going to use this model of equation to argue that A+A=A, then the only acceptable value for A would have to be zero, which is against algebraic procedure in the first place.

Your argument doesn't show that 1+1=1. That equation simply does not make sense or else you would have proven it does. Repeating over and over again that someone else manipulated 1+1=1 doesn't serve as evidence, but you likely have no real evidence to support your comment, otherwise I would hope it would be posted by this point in the conversation.

Therefore, in my mind, the only thing that you have even remotely proven is how horribly you misunderstand the theories behind mathematics, and how poor you are at supporting your own concepts.
Posted by shakuntala 3 years ago
shakuntala
it is said
"That's not a contradiction though, that's just you failing to understand mathematical theory."

it is agreed by most that the most certain thing is
A)1+1=2
but dean shows 1+1=1
which contradicts A
thus maths is in contradiction as it proves contradictory things ie 1+1=2
and 1+1=1
Posted by Craighawley215 3 years ago
Craighawley215
"wrong it is very simple
10 a number +20 a number =30 a number
or
1 number (10) + 1 number (20) = 1 number (30)"

That's not a contradiction though, that's just you failing to understand mathematical theory.

If I have a math equation that reads: A(10)+A(20)=A(30), that's not contradictory, that's simple algebra.

You can rewrite the equation like this: A(10+20)=A(30)

Or you can simplify the problem by dividing it by A, which leaves you with (10+20)=(30).

Therefore, A(10) + A(20) = A(30) is not a contradiction in any way, shape or form. Your claim that it is is only a confirmation that you either don't understand what you are saying, or you are trying to bait someone into a debate about semantics.
Posted by Diqiucun_Cunmin 3 years ago
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Darn, I meant Milk + Tea = Milk tea. Sorry.
Posted by shakuntala 3 years ago
shakuntala
it is said
"Not true, theory of distribution applies, which makes it 10+20=30, not 1+1=1."

wrong it is very simple
10 a number +20 a number =30 a number
or
1 number (10) + 1 number (20) = 1 number (30),
Posted by Craighawley215 3 years ago
Craighawley215
"1 number (10) + 1 number (20) = 1 number (30)
thus maths ends in contradiction"

Not true, theory of distribution applies, which makes it 10+20=30, not 1+1=1. In order for math to contradict itself, you would have the burden of proving that 1(a)+1(a)=1(a), but you are arguing that math is a contradiction because a+b=c. Your argument just does not work.
Posted by shakuntala 3 years ago
shakuntala
it is said
"It's just a shortening of the sum (10+20=30), that's how math work."
but
1 number (10) + 1 number (20) = 1 number (30)
thus maths ends in contradiction
Posted by shakuntala 3 years ago
shakuntala
"The essay link you posted is not viewable"
it works for me
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 3 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
shakuntalaDiqiucun_CunminTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: "Austrailia's leading erotic poet".
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 3 years ago
9spaceking
shakuntalaDiqiucun_CunminTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: This debate was impossible for pro to prove anyways. But he tried, and thus, I only lean points on spelling