The Instigator
Wylted
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Envisage
Pro (for)
Winning
20 Points

100 debate challenge 1: This House believes single-sex schools are good for education

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Envisage
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/24/2014 Category: Education
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,755 times Debate No: 63897
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (18)
Votes (4)

 

Wylted

Con

Full Topic
This House believes single-sex schools are good for education
Rules

1. Pro accepts the sole BOP
2. No forfeits
3. Any citations or foot/endnotes must be provided in the text of the debate
4. No new arguments in the final round
5. Maintain a civil and decorous atmosphere
6. No semantics or trolling
7. Violation of any of these rules or of any of the R1 set-up merits a loss

Structure

R1. Pro's presents his Case
R2. Con presents his Case, Pro rebuts Con's Case
R3. Con rebuts Pro's Case, Pro defends Pro's Case
R4. Con defends Con's Case, Pro rebuts Con's Case and Crystallizes
R5. Con rebuts Pro's Case and Crystallizes
Envisage

Pro

"Real improvement in our schools is not simply a matter of spending more, it is a matter of expecting more." - George W. Bush

While I would regard myself as liberal, myself and Bush and I expect Con share a value in the education system and also for providing the best possible social and working environment for the next generation(s).

"THBT Single-Sex Schools are Good for Education."

I don't anticipate that these terms are ambiguous except 'Good for Education', which I will affirm several sub points within this debate.

1. Good for academic performance
2. Good for education employees
3. Good for accommodation of values within education

Given that no standard of what 'good' would need to fulfil has been provided by Con, I would assume a reasonable starting point would be the standards held up by Co-Educational schools. If we hold that Co-Educational schools are 'Good for Education', then demonstrating that Single Sex Schools are at least as 'good' will win this debate. My opponent would need to either negate all my arguments, or positively demonstrate that single sex-schools are worse for education than co-educational schools (hence demonstrating they are bad for education). Alternatively he is required to attack my presuppositions.

Now onto contentions.

C1. Single-Sex Schools perform at least on par with co-educational schools academically

Research on the effects of single-sex vs. co-educational are notoriously difficult to control for various secondary factors, however a US Dept. Of Education review of 2251 of such studies entitled "Single-sex versus coeducational schooling: A systematic review" which concludes:

"As in previous reviews, the results are equivocal. There is some support for the premise that single-sex schooling can be helpful, especially for certain outcomes related to academic achievement and more positive academic aspirations. For many outcomes, there is no evidence of either benefit or harm. There is limited support for the view that single-sex schooling may be harmful or that coeducational schooling is more beneficial for students."

Another review mirrored the general findings of the US Dept of Education on general performance, but also found that there was a "medium advantage in middle school for girls, for both mathematics and science performance" [ http://www.apa.org...]

There are several theoretical points to favoring single sex-education. One such example is sexual stereotypes, which lead to diminished performance of girls in male-dominated disciplines such as maths and science (girls don't want to be seen as 'tomboys' for example). Such a peer-pressure stereotypical effect is absent in single-sex schools.

Moreover both male and females have different psychology, hence education can be tailored in a manner which would maximize their learning capacity towards one gender or the other in single sex institutions.[http://www.singlesexschools.org...]

C2. Single-Sex Schools accommodate for a spectrum of social values

It is no secret that single-sex schools were established in the west for both traditional and religious reasons. Whilst the former is less important in today's society, the latter remains important, especially given that >80% of the US is religious, for example. Several religious sects mandate and value segregated education for boys & girls (amongst other values), and hence single sex schools provide an accommodation for families that hold such values.[http://www.llcsjournal.org...]

Moreover, several families value raising their children during their most hormonal and vulnerable stage away from the temptations of the opposite sex, citing potential misgivings such as underage and premarital sex, teenage pregnancy, social pressures, etc.

Furthermore, it can be the case that one's child operates better socially and in a learn gin environment with same-sex peers. Hence the child's happiness needs to be valued.

Conclusion

By making rather easily defended assumptions, I have demonstrated that single sex schools are good for education. Both the statistics from an overwhelming number of studies, as well as pragmatics and social considerations make my case for me.

As such, please vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 1
Wylted

Con

Schools teach students a lot more than just the 3 R's (reading, riting, rithmatic). The education you get goes way beyond that. So if kids do get an education which would equate to the same amount of knowledge in the 3 R's in single sex schools as they do in lot's of sex schools than I still say they lack a lot of the knowledge that comes with recieving an education in multi gender environments.

Preparaton- My opponent is correct in saying that there is little evidence that the education recieved in a single sex school would be superior to one in a Co-ducational school. http://www.theguardian.com...

I seriously have to rush this out de to my crappy timing. I'll do rebuttals next round and will be forced to condense them down to shore up any missed points in this rrushed argument.

1. When kids get into the work force they will often have to work in multi gendered facilities. If they don't get used to this type of environment early it may have negative impacts on how they perform at their job.

2. It's bad for boys because they often get mental health problems and suffer more from divorce later than if they were in a mixed school' http://www.independent.co.uk...

3. These schools harm girls education. http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com...
Envisage

Pro

Thanks Con.

Con's points were as following:

Same sex schools harm girl's education
Boys suffer increased mental health problems
It deprives multi-gendered experience

So. I will address them in turn.

Same sex schools harm girl's education

Con provides no argument here, thus it can be dismissed out of hand. Pro provided one timely india article to substantiate his claim but does not show how it substantiates his claims. Upon reviewing the article I can find absolutely nothing which alludes to single-sex schools and only talks about a general gender biased literacy gap.

It does not establish:

That same-sex schools *caused* this drop in literacy
Take into account complicating factors (such as other social gender-biased influences)
Any *general* trends about single sex school education

If we compare Pro's one study, to mine, which were reviews of *thousands* of independant studies! and which control for complicating factors, it is clear who's position is grounded in the facts.

Boys suffer increased mental health problems:

Note that Pro's own source (which is an independant newspaper article... And hardly credible) states:

"Mary Bousted, general secretary of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, said: "All the research shows single-sex schools are good for girls but bad for boys " both in terms of academic performance and socialisation."

This seems to be a case of Con cherry picking the facts which make his own position more appealing and ignoring the other findings. Furthermore absolutely nothing in Pro's article actually alludes to *mental health*, this claim is entirely fabricated by Con and hence can be dismissed.

On the issue of increased divorce rates for men, so what? How does divorce correlate with being unbeneficial given the 'merits' of marriage is a contentious issue anyway? Ni statistics were providd in Pro's source so it is impossible to tell whether the purported effect in divorce is 0.001% or 100%, we are left to take their word on the size of impact and imagine what it might be. Without the percentage facts we can not reasonably make an assessment that it significantly has any effect on same-sex education whatsoever.

To give an analogy, you can remove your spare tyre to reduce your cars weight and increase fuel efficiency, but the gain is probably so negligible that it's barely worth discussing.

It deprives multi-gendered experience:

I will quickly concede that boys/girls in co-educational environments will have more experience with the opposite sex. I question the impacts this has though, and Con has provided no evidence or studies which attempt to quantify this on any level. Is there an appreciable difference in how boys/girls interact in the real world? We are left speculating by Con, which is simply not adequate for a policy debate. Evidence is king.

Back to Con.
Debate Round No. 2
Wylted

Con

This is not a policy debate. Me and my opponent have the same BOP. He has to show that single sex schools are good for education. I have to show they aren't good they are either average or bad.

My opponent basically concedes that boys attending single sex schools are more likely to be divorced which obviously leads to more single parent homes and what not.

Single sex schools give kids less experience with the opposite sex which leads to more sexism in the work place.

Therefore vote for me.
Envisage

Pro

Thanks Con.

Preface

Given that this is a three round debate, I will be concluding in this round. Also given that Pro was vacuous in this rebuttals, I will attempt to keep this brief.

Framework

Pro fails to attack any of the presuppositions I laid out in Round 1, and as such cannot justifiably attack the foundation of the arguments I have made later since I will not have a chance to respond. Given this, we can assume that an institution that performs academically on par or better than co-educational ones is 'good'. Con also drops my points about demonstrating what is good for employees (of single sex educational institutes), and in accordance with the values of society are also important to consider what is good for education.

C1. Single-sex schools perform at least on par academically

Pro concedes this point last round, he drops my points that there are areas in which there have been demonstrable improvements to some age bands for some genders in some subjects. Given this to be the case we can accept that single sex-schools perform at least on par with co-educational schools. In the context of the framework I have set (which went unaddressed by Con), I have already affirmed that single-sex schools are good for education and the Judges should vote Pro for just this point.

C2. Single-Sex Schools accommodate for a spectrum of social values

This argument went completely unaddressed by Con, despite having 2 rounds to do so. As such he drops these points, which should count substantially in my favour in voting. Single-sex schools are still relevant today due to religious and traditional values in parental-choice in where their child is educated.

Now I will clear up the crumbs of Con’s case:

1. Same sex schools harm girl's education

Con drops his argument here, given that it is based of a study of dubious authenticity and quality, and that the studies I brought forth are many orders of magnitude more comprehensive and general.

Con also fails to demonstrate causation even if the statistics were correct, and doesn’t take into condieration tertiary complicating factors.

2. Boys suffer increased mental health problems

Con drops his points here that single sex schools causes mental health problems (which I showed were gross overstatements of what his sources actually say). Even assuming his source as reliable, it doesn’t actually demonstrate factors that pain single-sex schools in an *overall* negative light, with positive points of the study balancing the negative points. Con had to resort to cherry picking to make his non-argument.

Con also fails to substantiate his presupposition that increased divorce (remember that Con didn’t provide ANY statistics for this) = bad for education. Just how is increased divorce rates a bad thing if that could easily be interpreted such that single gender schooled people are less likely to remain in an unhappy relationship than a co-educational schooled person. Hence will have generally improved well-being in life.

We cannot know either way since Con provided no statistics or data to demonstrate that.

3. It deprives multi-gendered experience

Again, the impacts of this are dubious at best, and Con has not attempted to demonstrate them. We are left guessing and imagining by Con what they are.

Conclusion

It should be apparent now which case was more objective, and which was better substantiated. So I will leave the rest to the voters. Vote Pro.

Debate Round No. 3
Wylted

Con

I don't want people to have to read through all of this (if they don't want to) to determine a winner, when the winner is clear. I concede and apologize to Envisage for not giving him my full effort.
Envisage

Pro

GG, Blank round as agreed.
Debate Round No. 4
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
Lol
Posted by Envisage 2 years ago
Envisage
Uh....
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I'm thinking about conceding so people aren't forced to read through all of that. The main objection I listed was the divorce thing and it's probably too late to hammer that point home in a fair way.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I agree.
Posted by Envisage 2 years ago
Envisage
And well, good. You should put that in your debate round. Note that I am actually pro on this debate topic, as I think the benefits of mixing genders outweighs the drawbacks (which I listed).
Posted by Envisage 2 years ago
Envisage
A divorce carries additional baggage with it, such as an increased number of dependant children, the pain of severance, social taboos on being divorces (over being single), etc.

That's why the question of 'is divorce good?' is not the same question as 'is marriage bad?'
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I'll tell you more about that in a PM (the marriage being a bad thing).

Whether or not marriage is a good thing all the hard numbers will indicate that divorce is definitely a bad thing. It's actually been shown it's better for a child if the parents stay married and in an unhappy relationship than to divorce. People say they are getting divorced for the kid all the time but it's just a rationalization.
Posted by Envisage 2 years ago
Envisage
I didn't see this comment.

Um, I don't think I would be too interested in debating that. I mostly brought up that point to throw you off, lol. I mean the point is valid, but I don't hold the position that divorce is generally good, I would be more of an 'undecided' on it.

However, I do feel that marriage is overall a negative/bad thing. I blame Zarroette in part for changing my mind in it.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
How about your next debate with me, we debate whether divorce is a good or bad thing?
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
Sorry, I got a lot on my plate right now. I'm short changing a lot of people.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Mr.Lincoln 2 years ago
Mr.Lincoln
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
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Reasons for voting decision: Concession from Con.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
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Reasons for voting decision: wylted concedes.
Vote Placed by Tweka 2 years ago
Tweka
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con concedes this debate. Pro also has refuted and provides lots of resources.