The Instigator
Draconis
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
THEBOMB
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

100 roman legionnaires

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
THEBOMB
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/31/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,148 times Debate No: 25387
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

Draconis

Pro

I challenge somebody to find a warrior from pre-black power ages that could beat cohort of 100 roman legionnaires you are allowed up to 150 of your own troops. The first round will be stating armor, weapons and tactics. Second round who had the best weapons, armor and tactics. Third round we be an overall decision from both sides.
THEBOMB

Con

My military unit will be the feared War Elephant. Traditionally considered a cavalry unit, they boasted an elephant, 2 bowmen in a tower and a driver. This means 4 people or elephants per unit. So the battle will be 100 roman legionaires against 38 elephant units (with the driver and tower).
Debate Round No. 1
Draconis

Pro

Armor
A galea was a Roman soldier's helmet.

Lorica segumentum consisted of broad Metallic strips ('girth hoops') fastened to internal leather straps. the plates of lorica segmentata armour were soft iron inside and (some at least) were mild steel on the outside.

Scutum The Scutum is light enough to be held in one hand and its large height and width covered the entire wielder, making him very unlikely to get hit by missile fire and in hand-to-hand combat. The metal boss, or umbo, in the center of the scutum also made it an auxiliary punching weapon as well.

Weapons

Pilum generally about two metres long overall, consisting of an iron shank about 7 mm in diameter and 60 cm long with pyramidal head. The shank was joined to the wooded shaft by either a socket or a flat tang. The softness of the shank would cause it to bend after impact, thus rendering the weapon useless to the enemy. More importantly, If the pilum struck the shield of an enemy it would embed itself into the shield's fabric, and this along with the bending of the shank would cause the shield to become unwieldy, forcing the enemy to discard it or waste time trying to pull it out.

Hasta thrusting spear about 2 meters long with blade attached to top via a socket could be used in tandom with the scutum

tribulus (caltrop) is a weapon made up of four sharp nails or spines arranged in such a manner that one of them always points upward from a stable base (for example, a tetrahedron). Caltrops serve to slow down the advance of horses, war elephants, and human troops.

Gladius is the general Latin word for " sword". In the Roman Republic the term 'Gladius Hispaniensis' (Spanish Sword) referred (and refers today) specifically to the short sword, 60 cm (24 inches) long, used by Roman legionaries.

A pugio was a dagger used by Roman soldiers. It was probably a sidearm. Like other items of legionary equipment, the dagger underwent some changes during the 1st century. Generally, it had a large, leaf-shaped blade 18 to 28 cm long and 5 cm or more in width

Tatics

Caltrops are placed on the battlefield as to impead the charging heavy cavliry. In the act of carging the elephants travel at about 25 mph at top speed. When steping on caltrop the elephants my break formation due to pain of the caltrop embedded into pad of the foot. Once in range of the Elephants the first wave of pillums are thrown. after geting closer th mandiples of ten troops select a target and proceade to throw second wa of pillums. The Hasta is then used when in close quater fighting with the romans priking at un armd parts of the elephant like eyes and feet casuing dicomfort and pain causing the cavilry to beak. The gladius can be used in hand to hand with the elphant with slashes to unarmored under belly.
THEBOMB

Con

I will start like my opponent:

*disclaimer* No, I have absolutely no clue how to train an elephant *end of disclaimer*

Armor

Elephant's Armor

Natural Armor

An elephant's skin is extraordinarily tough, it is over 1 inch thick and the fact is, war elephants were widely used simply because their skin could protect the elephant from arrow and sword blows. Even without armor. (1, 2)

Man-made armor

An elephant's metal armor consisted of drapped metal sheets over the elephant with a "tower" for two archers and a space for the driver. This, combined with its skin, protected the elephant from all melee and ranged blows. Spears included. (1) Aside from its underbelly which no-one would be dumb enough to go. Quite honestly this is simply logic, would you go under an elephant for the purposes of pissing it off? No, you'd die. End of story. Even so, an elephant is large enough that a single man from the ground could not reach the belly with his sword.

Archer and driver's Armor

Due to the fact that the driver and archer's were basically invulnerable to all melee blows (they are on the elephant and pretty far the ground, makes it rather hard to hit them by sword). Armor consisted of simple infantry armor. A helmet and plate and/or chain mail.

Weapons

Elephant's Weapons

The War Elephant had many weapons. First, simply itself. An elephant can charge at up to 30 miles per hour and shear fact is, if you get stepped on, you're dead. They could not be stopped really by setting spear lines. Second, terror. Terror is a great weapon, if you get your opponent's to run away, you win. The fact is, seeing 38 elephants in the middle of a battle field does not inspire great confidence in any person. In fact, the Roman's are known for being afraid of the Elephant. (2) Third, a chain and iron ball. Many war elephants were equipped with heavy iron chains with steel balls at the end. Quite simply, the elephants were trained to swing the iron balls at the enemy. And as you can imagine, this had devestating results.

Archer's Weapons

Archer's use a composite recurve bow which had a wooden core with strips of horn glued to the back and reinforced with tendon. In other words, it's a relatively powerful bow. Archers also carried 6 foot long pikes, just in case.

Now for the fun stuff...

Tactics

I have 38 War elephants at my disposal. 15 of them will be used solely for the purpose of archery and keeping the Romans heads down, so to speak. As the Roman military attempts to place its caltrops, all archers will fire hopefully stopping the placement. When the battle commences, 15 elephants will be placed just in range of the Roman military. But, out of range of the Roman pillums (as bows can fire farther than pillums can be thrown.) These 15 elephants are both archers and "reserve" chargers. The remaining 23 elephants will charge at the enemy at speeds of up to 30 miles per hour. When the elephants hit the Roman ranks, the Romans will break rank. The swinging of the metal balls, combined with the trampling and the tusks will make sure of that.


1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Draconis

Pro

In my view it is either a win for thee or a draw
THEBOMB

Con

Sadly, my opponent has basically conceded. :(
Debate Round No. 3
Draconis

Pro

Sorry but i see no way that the romans could win i have met a worthy opponent
THEBOMB

Con

Nah, don't you apologize. It was a good debate :) You know your stuff!
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by bossyburrito 4 years ago
bossyburrito
That would be semantics and a downright douchey tactic.
Posted by emospongebob527 4 years ago
emospongebob527
Con should have picked the Nazi Waffen SS as their warriors considering Pro said to pick a warrior from pre-black power ages and considering black people didn't come to power in America until after the late 60's. See it's mistakes like that Pro that may just just cost you an argument...... You're lucky Con didn't catch that......
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Yep 4 years ago
Yep
DraconisTHEBOMBTied
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Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: Just to be nice, Conduct to Pro! Very polite debate and fun to read! Also, nothing trumps a war elephant, so after the first round unless con really fvcked up, it was already decided. Those poor legionanaires :( Edit: Although con used wikipedia for their sources, still giving con Sources.
Vote Placed by TheOrator 4 years ago
TheOrator
DraconisTHEBOMBTied
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Reasons for voting decision: haha, yeah, good job picking the elephant, Con. I didn't think of it off the top of my head (at least before I saw your argument), which is where most of my debate ideas come from :P I'll only really counter Zaradi's vote if this gets close, which I doubt it will due to the concession :P
Vote Placed by Zaradi 4 years ago
Zaradi
DraconisTHEBOMBTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: I give pro this: There's not much that can make the Roman legions to break. But elephants are, arguably with the other half being the tactical skills of the General of Carthage (who's name I feel entirely embarrassed for not remembering), is why it took them 3 Punic Wars to wipe Carthage out: just can't beat the elephants without being defeated in detail. This one is a no-brainer, but I give Pro conduct simply because I like the Roman Legionnaires. Counter if you want, but idgaf.