The Instigator
frozen_eclipse
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
1dustpelt
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

5 ninjas would win against 5 vikings

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
1dustpelt
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/30/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,858 times Debate No: 22437
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (6)

 

frozen_eclipse

Pro

a Ninja would win against a viking. I am for ninjas. There faster and more acrobatic.
I also believe ninjas could have the strategic advantage.
1dustpelt

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
frozen_eclipse

Pro

5 Ninjas would win against 5 vikings.

Viking facts
1.Strength advantage
2.heavy weaponry but slower than ninja due to massive weight of weapons and armor
3.spear
4.axe
5.sword
6.dagger
( im not a expert on vikings like i am on ninjas, so feel free to add to the list)


Ninja facts


2.ninjutsu witch can divert most attacks
3. master of application of kyusho points(pressure points)
4.assassins
5.can use darkness as an advantage
6.can deprive others of vision smell and hearing
7.ninjato
8.kusarigama
9.fukyia
10.poison
11.stalkers who can live on there on in nature.
12.can take out many enimies at one time
13.acrobatics equivalent to parkour
15. can throw shuriken 90 feet



Ninjas have the most advantage

My list above clearly shows that ninjas have the advantage.Ninjas can fight great far distances, and close distance. While vikings are only contact fighters.The ninja are ruthless killers and have amazing ninjutsu and taijutsu fighting skills.



http://www.youtube.com......-
psuggest.1.3.0l10.1429l3232l0l5385l8l8l0l2l2l0l127l557l3j3l6l0.







They can hide in the darkness and have up to 40% more visual capabilities than a normal human.......
http://ninjaninjutsu.blogspot.com......

ninjas can poison a viking from very long distances using a blow dart(fukiya).....http://martialexpert.com............ninjas poison is fatal, and almost all there weapons are dipped in fatal poison. Ninjas have heartbeats, so it would kill them. Ninjas also have great tactics......ninjas can walk without being heard giving them the ability of stealth. They can infuse pepper into their smoke bombs, or dip there shurikens with poison to direly injure the viking. If there were many vikings in one area these tactics would give them a great advantage. This attack would cover a large area and do critical damage to the vikings impairing there ability to fight......they could also set traps.....http://ninjaninjutsu.blogspot.com......

The ninja also have the kusarigama and the ninjato, and wakisahi. The kusarigama alone gives the ninja an amazing advantage. It has a iorn or steel ball attached to an iorn chain of about a couple feet and a kama at the end. This weapon allows for great transistions from far to close range. The ninja can knock them on the head causing brain injury and then move in close and finish the kill to the heart with the kama..................or just force others to keep there distance..........http://www.ninjainformationdatabase.com......

lets talk about shurikens...... Targets were primarily the eyes, face, hands, or the feet, the areas most exposed under armor. The shuriken would sometimes be thrown in a way that cuts the opponent and become lost, later causing the opponent to believe that they were cut by an invisible swordsman.

Shuriken, especially hira-shuriken, were also used in other novel ways—they might be embedded in the ground, injuring those who stepped on them (similar to a caltrop or tetsubishi), wrapped in fuse to be lit and thrown to cause fire, or wrapped in a cloth soaked in poison and lit to cover an area with a cloud of poisonous smoke. They can also be used as a handheld striking weapon in close combat.

There are reports of shuriken being coated with poison intended either for a throwing target or for whoever may pick them up when left in a conspicuous place.Other reports indicate that shuriken may have been buried in dirt or animal feces and allowed to harbor the bacterium Clostridium tetani—if the point penetrated a victim deeply enough, the bacteria transferred into the wound could cause a then-incurable tetanus infection.....ninjas have the advantage here obviously...lol...........http://en.wikipedia.org......

heres some more of there arsenel just for fun..........

*KAGINAWA*

*Kakute*

*SHUKO / ASHIKO*

*Ropes & Nets*

*Kunai*

*Uchitake or Doka*

*Portable Rations*

*Komonoire*

*Ashiaro*

*Gando*

*Hasami Bune / Kama Ikada/Mizu Gumo/Shinobi Kai*

*Kusuribin*

*Metsubishi*

*Shikoro*

*Tojime*

*Shinobi Shozoku*

http://www.ninjainformationdatabase.com......

.




strategically ninjas would succeed

1. Ninjas can use the vikings weaknesses to their advantage.Vikings may be more strong but the ninja are faster and more pressice. Besdies sneak attacks the ninjas(being stalkers) can track down their opponents bases and ambush them in there sleep. With the warriors unarmored the ninja have a great advantage here.We also need to factor in that the vampires may be poisoned Even if they do survive, they will die within a couple minute, hours, or days. Witch ensures the ninja will win. "Ninjas win even in death." Also if the ninja attacks the vikings witch carry large amounts of weight. The ninja has the speed edge over the vikkings witch gives ninja multiple openings ...........http://www.monstropedia.org......


Ninjas CAN deprive the vikings of there senses

Ninjas are known for throwing peppers and dust into their opponents eyes. Blinding the vikings. They also use metsubushi called black egges where ground up glass in poured intg and thrown at the enemies eyes causing signifigant damage and blood loss to the vikings. They also are known to be suicide bombers, and can make smoke bombs..........the pepper and glass will deprive the vikings of ther smell, and sight......witch equals death for them.
.http://www.squidoo.com......

http://en.wikipedia.org......

In my case here i believe i have effectively proven that ninjas would win against vikings........
Ninjas would win strategically and tacticly And can deprive there enemies of there senses meaning certain death. Therefore pro should win this debate.





sources

1..

2.http://www.youtube.com......-
psuggest.1.3.0l10.1429l3232l0l5385l8l8l0l2l2l0l127l557l3j3l6l0.

3.http://ninjaninjutsu.blogspot.com......

4..http://martialexpert.com......

5.http://www.ninjainformationdatabase.com......

6.http://en.wikipedia.org......

7.http://www.monstropedia.org......

8. http://www.squidoo.com......

9. http://en.wikipedia.org......



http://www.youtube.com......-
psuggest.1.3.0l10.1429l3232l0l5385l8l8l0l2l2l0l127l557l3j3l6l0.




1dustpelt

Con

How will they be fighting?
First, since my opponent has not specified how they will be fighting, I will say that they are fighting on an open battlefield at noon near the ocean.

I will now add to my opponent's list.

Viking facts
1. Strength advantage
2. Heavy weaponry but slower than ninja due to massive weight of weapons and armor
3. Spear
4. Axe
5. Sword
6. Dagger
7. Shields
8. Ships (Best sailors of the time)
9. Shield Wall strategy
10. Javlins
11. Arrows


Ninja facts

My opponent has forgot to add the numbers 1 and 13, so I will fix it.

1. Ninjutsu (Kind of like Kung Fu)
2. Kyusho points(pressure points)
3. Assassins
4. Can use darkness as an advantage
5. Can deprive others of vision smell and hearing
6. Ninjato (A type of sword.)
7. Kusarigama (A mace-like weapon)
8. Fukyia (Dart-Blower)
9. Poison
10. Stalkers who can live on there on in nature.
11. Can take out many enemies at one time
12. Acrobatics equivalent to parkour
13. Can throw shuriken (Length varying with different ninjas)

Now I will eliminate some of my opponents points.
Kyusho points- Will not work on viking armor.
Assassins- Open battlefield, assasins would be very ineffective.
Can use darkness as an advantage- We are at noon, no darkness.
Can take out many enemies at one time - So can vikings.
Can throw shuriken- Would be ineffective on viking armor.
Fukyia - Ineffective on armor.

After eliminating some of my opponents points, the list is down to this.

Ninja
1. Ninjutsu (Kind of like Kung Fu)
2. Can deprive others of vision smell and hearing
3. Ninjato (A type of sword.)
4. Kusarigama (A mace-like weapon)
5. Stalkers who can live on there on in nature.
6. Can take out many enemies at one time
7. Acrobatics equivalent to parkour
8. Poison

As you see, Vikings have more advantages than ninjas.

Rebuttals

"They can hide in the darkness and have up to 40% more visual capabilities than a normal human."
Blogspot is not a valid source. Besides, I cannot find anywhere on Google that a ninja has 40% more visual capabilities. Probably more modern myths.

"Ninjas can poison a viking from very long distances using a blow dart."
It's called armor.

"The ninja also have the kusarigama and the ninjato, and wakisahi. The kusarigama alone gives the ninja an amazing advantage. It has a iorn or steel ball attached to an iorn chain of about a couple feet and a kama at the end. This weapon allows for great transistions from far to close range. The ninja can knock them on the head causing brain injury and then move in close and finish the kill to the heart with the kama..................or just force others to keep there distance."
1. Armor
2. Vikings have similar weapons.

"Strategically ninjas would succeed"
Actually not. The vikings have a tactic called the shield wall, where they line up the shields protecting them from arrows and long range weapons, then they advance forward and trample the enemy. They can also form a circle with their shields, blocking any attacks.

"Ninjas CAN deprive the vikings of there senses"
That is if they can get past the shield blockade.

Conclusion
5 ninjas would not defeat 5 vikings.

Sources
Do realize many of my opponent's sources are invalid. (Squidoo, Blogspot,
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...;
http://www.bbc.co.uk...;
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://digilander.libero.it...;
http://en.wikipedia.org...;
http://www.viking-shield.com...;
http://en.wikipedia.org...;
http://warviking.tripod.com...
Debate Round No. 2
frozen_eclipse

Pro

o.k ive just realized that i should hae added those extra advantages in my listso here it is


Also i accept the area of battle but my opponent never specified noon a.m or p.m. So let me do it for us.It will be 12 P.M in a open feild.

1. Ninjutsu (Kind of like Kung Fu)
2. Kyusho points(pressure points)
3. Assassins
4. Can use darkness as an advantage
5. Can deprive others of vision smell and hearing
6. Ninjato (A type of sword.)
7. Kusarigama (A mace-like weapon)
8. Fukyia (Dart-Blower)
9. Poison
10. Stalkers who can live on there on in nature.
11. Can take out many enemies at one time
12. Acrobatics equivalent to parkour
13. Can throw shuriken (Length varying with different ninjas)

14.*KAGINAWA*

15.*Kakute*

16.SHUKO / ASHIKO*

17.*Ropes & Nets*

18.*Kunai*

19.*Uchitake or Doka*

20.*Portable Rations*

21.*Komonoire*

22.*Ashiaro*

23.*Gando*

24.*Hasami Bune / Kama Ikada/Mizu Gumo/Shinobi Kai*

25.*Kusuribin*

26.*Metsubishi*

27.*Shikoro*

28.*Tojime*

29.*Shinobi Shozoku*

I will first deafeat my opponents elmination of my list

Kyushu points are still valid because ninjas are used to training against samurai who are way more armored than vikings. They go for the spots not covered by the armor witch in the vikings case alot of spots. Especially the face

Assasination still effective because it will be very dark in the feild.

Everything else is defeated because these weapons dont aim for armor but open fleash. Also the fact of most of viking armor is just chain mail witch has many many holes for oppenings and would not hold against ninja weapons.







My opponent wants to rebutt my source saying ninjas have 40 % more visability in darkness.

Just because it comes from blogspot doesnt make it invald. There is no govermental research that has gone into this. Because the goverment doesnt care about it. so obviously your not going to find the info from anywhere accept by from the ninjas themselves. ........heres some more info though..............http://sites.google.com...

It deosnt have that info but it has some good info about ninja night vision. Fact is ninjas train in the dark. And spend about a day adjusting there eyes to have the advantage at night witch is proven by my sources.


My opponent defends the fact that vikings have armor terefore they cant be poisoned. The situation is that vikings dont have much armor and ninjas train against samurai witch are way more armored than vikings. So they have experiece and they know how to aim at exposed points of the body switch is why ninjas would win against them.


My opponents say viikings have similar weaponry...

Vikings dont have a kama attached to metal chains witch a mace at the end. They dont have a super light sword with the best cutting ability, and durability. And they dont have a wakisashi. There dagger cannot be used like a wakisashi. Vikings dont have the other 15 plus weapons that ninjas have an avantage over them from.

My opponent thinks that since vikings can form a sheild blockade then they can be touched.
If the blocade is a straight line then obviously sneak up behind. Also people dont realize this but a strong kick to a sheild will knock it over especially if there knealing down. also against this.....while they advance ninjas can just spike the feild and formation is lost. lastly the can just throw smoke bombs or spray red pepper. and they will brake formation. Amoung many other strategies. So ninjas can break there sheild formation.Also i dont think the people holding the sheilds can handle the force or vibration of a mace hit. Ive proven that ninjas can get through so sensory deprivation still stands.



my case

1. ninjas have the advanage.

Besides more effective weaponry. Vikings are slow and have long and close range weapons. And can see better in the dark than a viking can. Ninjas can easily poison vikings from either there coated weapons, bows, or there fukiya.
While vikings could only have a possibility of winning if tthey can get in arm distance wth a ninja and outmatch his sped witch isnt going to happen.Ninjas can run without being heard Whie vikings armor would make alot of noise. ninjas train to use only there other senses and not there eyes. So ninjas have many massive advantages over vikings. ninjas could also drop metsubishi all over the feild impairing vikings ability to stand. As we all clearly see ninjas have the advantage in this battle.

2. Ninjas would win.


1. Ninjas can use the vikings weaknesses to their advantage.Vikings may be more strong but the ninja are faster and more pressice. Besdies sneak attacks the ninjas(being stalkers) can track down their opponents bases and ambush them in there sleep( If the battle gets very long or the ninjas retreat then hunt them down later). With the warriors unarmored the ninja have a great advantage here.We also need to factor in that the vikings may be poisoned Even if they do survive, they will die within a couple minutes, hours, or days. Witch ensures the ninja will win. "Ninjas win even in death." Also if the ninja attacks the vikings witch carry large amounts of weight. The ninja has the speed edge over the vikkings witch gives ninja multiple openings.

Ninjas CAN deprive the vikings of there senses

Ninjas are known for throwing peppers and dust into their opponents eyes. Blinding the vikings. They also use metsubushi called black egges where ground up glass in poured intg and thrown at the enemies eyes causing signifigant damage and blood loss to the vikings. They also are known to be suicide bombers, and can make smoke bombs..........the pepper and glass will deprive the vikings of ther smell, and sight......witch equals death for them.
.http://www.squidoo.com.........

http://en.wikipedia.org.........

In my case here i believe i have effectively proven that ninjas would win against vikings........
Ninjas would win strategically and tacticly And can deprive there enemies of there senses meaning certain death. Therefore pro should win this debate.

Sources
1.http://entertheninja.com...


2.http://www.youtube.com.........-
psuggest.1.3.0l10.1429l3232l0l5385l8l8l0l2l2l0l127l557l3j3l6l0.

3.http://ninjaninjutsu.blogspot.com.........

4..http://martialexpert.com.........

5.http://www.ninjainformationdatabase.com.........

6.http://en.wikipedia.org.........

7.http://www.monstropedia.org.........

8. http://www.squidoo.com.........

9. http://en.wikipedia.org.........


10.http://sites.google.com...

1dustpelt

Con

Since nobody did, I will specify that there is a full moon above the field that is very bright.

First I will defeat my opponent's rebuttal of my elimination.

"Kyushu points are still valid because ninjas are used to training against samurai who are way more armored than vikings. They go for the spots not covered by the armor witch in the vikings case alot of spots. Especially the face."
That is IF they can get so close to the viking's face without getting slashed. Which, of course, they can't. They are fast, but not lightning speed fast.

"Assasination still effective because it will be very dark in the field."
Bright full moon, not dark.

My opponent claims that the rest of my elimination is about armor. "Can take out many enemies at once" is not armor. Still, Fukiya-Shield, Shuriken-Shield.

My elimination still stands.

My opponent has also added many points. I will refute them.

Kaginawa- How would a climbing hook be relavant here?
Kakute- A ninja would not be able to get that close without being slashed.
Shuko- Again, can not get that close. Besides, slapping would be ineffective on shields and armor.
Ropes & Nets- So what can you do with them? If you throw a rope or a net over a viking, SLASH! Useless.
Kunai- Ninjas used it to dig holes in walls. There are no walls or anything that needs digging.
Uchitake- Sources? All I can find about this is on a gaming site.
Portable Rations- Food is going to be useless here.
Komonoire- A backpack is not relavent.
Ashiaro- A viking would not care about footprints.
Gando- Sources? I can't find anything on this one except a small island.
Hasami Bune- Why would the ninja need to trasport things using a collapsable float? Besides, vikings have superior navy.
Kusuribin- A can used to carry things is irrelavent. If I wanted to, I could have put all the ways vikings carry things.
Metsubishi- If they can get close enought to blow on the viking's face.
Shikoro- No need to list every type of sword that exists. I do not list every type of axe that exists.
Tojime- Why would a door-closer be relevant here?
Shinobi Shozoku- Colored clothing would not help anyone here.

My elimination stands. Vikings still have more advantages.

"It deosnt have that info but it has some good info about ninja night vision. Fact is ninjas train in the dark. And spend about a day adjusting there eyes to have the advantage at night witch is proven by my sources."
Full moon, bright?

"My opponent defends the fact that vikings have armor terefore they cant be poisoned. The situation is that vikings dont have much armor and ninjas train against samurai witch are way more armored than vikings. So they have experiece and they know how to aim at exposed points of the body switch is why ninjas would win against them."
And do ninjas always win against samurai? NO.

"Vikings dont have a kama attached to metal chains witch a mace at the end. They dont have a super light sword with the best cutting ability, and durability. And they dont have a wakisashi. There dagger cannot be used like a wakisashi. Vikings dont have the other 15 plus weapons that ninjas have an avantage over them from."
A flail. A spiked ball attatched to the end of a chain attatched to a pole. As for the swords, yes they do. http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com...;.
A dagger cannot be used as a wakisashi but a viking sword certainly can.

"My opponent thinks that since vikings can form a sheild blockade then they can be touched.
If the blocade is a straight line then obviously sneak up behind. Also people dont realize this but a strong kick to a sheild will knock it over especially if there knealing down. also against this.....while they advance ninjas can just spike the feild and formation is lost. lastly the can just throw smoke bombs or spray red pepper. and they will brake formation. Amoung many other strategies. So ninjas can break there sheild formation.Also i dont think the people holding the sheilds can handle the force or vibration of a mace hit. Ive proven that ninjas can get through so sensory deprivation still stands."
Sneak behind? How? Ninjas on one side and Vikings on another. Would the jump over them? Vikings can shoot with arrows. As for the mace, alright, but the Viking can just as easily respond with his own mace or an axe.

"Besides more effective weaponry. Vikings are slow and have long and close range weapons. And can see better in the dark than a viking can. Ninjas can easily poison vikings from either there coated weapons, bows, or there fukiya."
Vikings have both close and long range weapons. They can throw axes, shoot arrows, etc. And I already refuted the fukiya and etc. earlier.

"Ninjas can use the vikings weaknesses to their advantage.Vikings may be more strong but the ninja are faster and more pressice. Besdies sneak attacks the ninjas(being stalkers) can track down their opponents bases and ambush them in there sleep( If the battle gets very long or the ninjas retreat then hunt them down later). With the warriors unarmored the ninja have a great advantage here.We also need to factor in that the vikings may be poisoned Even if they do survive, they will die within a couple minutes, hours, or days. Witch ensures the ninja will win."Ninjas win even in death." Also if the ninja attacks the vikings witch carry large amounts of weight. The ninja has the speed edge over the vikkings witch gives ninja multiple openings."
The bases? What if the base is on a ship? I did specify next to the ocean. Your argument always involves being unarmored or ambushing.

"Ninjas are known for throwing peppers and dust into their opponents eyes. Blinding the vikings. They also use metsubushi called black egges where ground up glass in poured intg and thrown at the enemies eyes causing signifigant damage and blood loss to the vikings. They also are known to be suicide bombers, and can make smoke bombs..........the pepper and glass will deprive the vikings of ther smell, and sight......witch equals death for them."
Suicide bombers? You do realize there are only five people. Also, vikings can retreat back to their ships, where the ninjas cannot reach.

My Case

Navy
Because this is next to the ocean, the vikings could easily retreat to their ships if anything goes wrong. The vikings were know for their sailing abilities. Also, the vikings can stay on their ship where the ninjas cannot reach, and shoot the ninjas with arrows.

Conclusion
I have refuted all of Pro's arguments. I have proven that vikings can use their navy as their advantage. If they stay on their ships and shoot arrows at the ninjas, the ninjas would not be able to reach them. I have proved that vikings would at least tie with ninjas, if not win. Therefore Con should win this debate.


Sources
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...;
http://en.wikipedia.org...;
http://en.wikipedia.org...;
http://en.wikipedia.org...;
http://www.ninjainformationdatabase.com...;
http://www.entertheninja.com...;
http://www.cart-white.co.uk...;
http://www.entertheninja.com...;
http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com...;
http://en.wikipedia.org...;

Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by 1dustpelt 5 years ago
1dustpelt
Who disliked this!? >:d
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
S&G to Con for obvious reasons. Conduct to Con because Pro introduced a plethora of new abilities in the last round. Many of these abilities were useless and irrelevant (i.e. a backpack to carry things). Those that might have been useful were quickly disproved by Con, who showed that the viking's have armor, shields, can form a shield wall, and can use their boats as a defense. Pro said that the ninjas could circle around the wall, but Con showed how the vikings could simply form the wall into a circle. Ultimately, Con has won this debate.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
crappy votes
Posted by angrymen 5 years ago
angrymen
Does anyone watch deadliest warrior, and didn't they do this?
Posted by Multi_Pyrocytophage 5 years ago
Multi_Pyrocytophage
Interesting read... I will vote this tomorrow.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
lol pros sources where accurate, I have a blog that is highly sourced and is therefore accurate. I will need to check them out though.
Posted by frozen_eclipse 5 years ago
frozen_eclipse
interesting......this will be a good debate...lol
Posted by frozen_eclipse 5 years ago
frozen_eclipse
i you see the word vampire i apologize its supposed to be vikings.......
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by gr33k_fr33k5 5 years ago
gr33k_fr33k5
frozen_eclipse1dustpeltTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: because vikings would win and he at least made good points. . . (40 better eyesight? aha
Vote Placed by Multi_Pyrocytophage 5 years ago
Multi_Pyrocytophage
frozen_eclipse1dustpeltTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I must say, Con made good arguments and showed that the Vikings had shields, and could use boats as a defence. Pro could ultimately not refute this, which gives the vote to Con.
Vote Placed by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
frozen_eclipse1dustpeltTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
frozen_eclipse1dustpeltTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter VB the last votes, though calvins source poi stands. Guys, dont vote like my former self. Other people, if you counter this then you didn't read the last votes. My counter is 6 points, for the 2 poor rfd's for the 3 point arguments. I countered the mal- points. And also, pro won this.
Vote Placed by CalvinAndHobbes 5 years ago
CalvinAndHobbes
frozen_eclipse1dustpeltTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con had a more articulate argument and did not use blogs as sources. However, Wikipedia isn't much better.
Vote Placed by SuburbiaSurvivor 5 years ago
SuburbiaSurvivor
frozen_eclipse1dustpeltTied
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Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I'd say Con's arguments were better and... I'm part viking so I'm a bit biased :P