The Instigator
foxman
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
bcaldwell100
Con (against)
Winning
51 Points

9/11 was caused by God's wrath towards gays.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/2/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,583 times Debate No: 1290
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (58)
Votes (19)

 

foxman

Pro

God is angry at America for accepting homosexuals. Gays are sinners, so accepting them makes us all sinners and enemies of God. So God showed his hate for America by striking down the World Trade Centers. The USA needs to realize that if we don't start persecuting homosexuals then we will soon burn in the eternal lake of fire. I am posting this debate to warn the world of the doom sure to befall us.
So let's look at the facts:
1) Homosexuality is a sin as stated in the bible.
2) God hates sinners because sinners are enemies of God.
3) God has been known to smite sinning nations to try to save them.

From http://www.godhatesamerica.com... :
This is the only truth about September 11, 2001 you're likely to hear, so pay attention!

"The LORD'S voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it." Micah 6:9
On September 11, 2001, God Almighty struck the United States of America with the worst terrorist attack in her history. Thousands died, millions, even billions of dollars lost and spent in subsequent recovery, cleanup, and security measures, and what has changed? Nothing. One week after America is struck by God's Hand, the Pervert in Chief George W. Bush swears in an out of the closet, militant homosexual, Michael Guest to be Ambassador to Romania! The representative face of America to Europe is an out of the closet f*g! Guest, along with his f*g lover, live as husband and wife in the American Embassy in Bucharest, flaunting their perversion at every opportunity, representing America as a f*g nation!!

God laughs at the calamity of America and her crocodile tears!
This nation has ignored the reproof of Wisdom (i.e., God), and now God is laughing. "But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you." Proverbs 1:25-27. The phony tears of George W. Bush are seen for what they are!! "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" Galatians 6:7. George W. Bush has sown deception, depravity, and defiance of God. His hatred of God will be revisited upon him by the Almighty at the Judgement Day.

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." 2 Timothy 4:2-4

Okay, so for those of you who managed to bare through the first several paragraphs, this is the second attempt at an experiment to see if people actually vote on the debate and not their personal beliefs. So me and bcaldwell100 have agreed to do this mock debate. It really isn't important who you vote for, but at the end of this debate, we'll give a key phrase to post on your comments. Then I'll compare the number of votes versus the number of keywords and I'll have my answer.
bcaldwell100

Con

As the con, my opponent is completely right. He states nothing but fact and presents several good sources. God was really pissed off at those people and so he brought his wrath down on America.
1) So true, just examine Leviticus
2) He's on a role
3) Bingo, you may now collect 200 dollars and pass go.

The primary meaning of the word gay has changed dramatically during the 20th century—though the change evolved from earlier usages. It derives via the Old French gai, probably from a Germanic source.[1] The word originally meant "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy" and was very commonly used with this meaning in speech and literature. For example, the title of the 1938 ballet aptly named Ga�t� Parisienne ("Parisian Gaiety"), a patchwork compiled from Jacques Offenbach's operettas, illustrates this connotation, and the optimistic 1890s are still often referred to as the Gay Nineties.
The word started to acquire sexual connotations in the late 17th century, being used with meaning "addicted to pleasures and dissipations". This was by extension from the primary meaning of "carefree": implying "uninhibited by moral constraints". By the late nineteenth century the term "gay life" was a well-established euphemism for prostitution and other forms of extramarital sexual behavior that were perceived as immoral.
The first name Gay is still occasionally encountered, usually as a female name although the spelling is often altered to Gaye. (795th most common in the United States, according to the 1990 US census[2]). It was also used as a male first name. The first name of the popular male Irish television presenter Gabriel Byrne was always abbreviated as "Gay", as in the title of his radio show The Gay Byrne Show. It can also be used as a short form of the female name Gaynell and as a short form of the male names Gaylen and Gaylord. The "Gaiety" was also a common name for places of entertainment. One of Oscar Wilde's favourite venues in Dublin was the Gaiety Theatre.

Gay was originally used purely as an adjective ("he is a gay man" or "he is gay"). Gay can also be used as a plural noun: "Gays are opposed to that policy"; although some dislike this usage, it is common particularly in the names of various organizations such as Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) and Children Of Lesbians And Gays Everywhere (COLAGE). It is sometimes used as a singular noun, as in "he is a gay", such as in its use to comic effect by the Little Britain character Dafydd Thomas. However, many find this usage offensive as it is making sexual orientation the whole of what makes a person: an actual 'noun'.

OK, so I thought it best to just agree with foxman to make it clear who won the debate. Anyone who doesn't use the keyword and votes for me should be a clear marker for the test.
To all who read this, I don't think either me nor foxman actually agree with this. I'm just afraid we might get a few crazies who want to kill us.
Debate Round No. 1
foxman

Pro

I know I right, my level of rightness is unsurpassed by any being below God. Gays are horrid creatures that God cannot stand, so he attacked us on 9/11.

During an exchange with Pat Robertson on the 700 Club, Jerry Falwell explained what he thought caused the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Center:

"The ACLU's got to take a lot of blame for this. ... And I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say: "You helped this happen.""

Soulforce, Inc., an interfaith movement committed to ending spiritual violence perpetuated by religious policies and teachings against gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people, believes Southern Baptist teachings, policies, and inflammatory rhetoric lead to suffering and death. Dozens of Soulforce supporters were arrested during nonviolent civil disobedience at previous SBC annual meetings, and Soulforce leaders have vowed to escalate the protests this year.
PRESS CONFERENCE: Tuesday, June 11, 10:45 AM - Outside the America's Center
SBC President Dr. James Merritt has been invited to repudiate a "legal opinion" crafted by Southern Baptist Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, which obstinately stated, "The state must use...confinement and even execution" to prevent gays and lesbians from parenting children.
If Merritt refuses to repudiate Justice Moore's statement during the 10:45am outside press conference, a delegation of Soulforce supporters will immediately carry a prepared case against anti-gay SBC teachings to the podium inside the America's Center during Merritt's opening statement.
"For three years now Dr. Merritt has refused to consider the evidence that homosexuality is not a sickness or a sin," stated Rev. White, Executive Director and Co-founder of Soulforce. "So we are giving him the opportunity to take a stand against inflammatory rhetoric that convinces us that Southern Baptist teachings lead to intolerance, suffering, and even death for God's gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender children."

OK, sanity again. I'm sorry these quotes are so long, but another part of my theory is that people don't read debate because they are lengthy. Bcaldwell100, I seriously doubt we'll get a bunch a crazy people who will want to kill us for our "beliefs", especially if they actually read the debate. If so, then they are just as wrong as people who agree with the topic. Ooops, that was a counter point, disregard that readers.
bcaldwell100

Con

Yeah, you are right. Gays are terrible sinners who will all go to hell. The only logical explanation for 9/11 is that God smited America to warn us to get our act together. The people who hijacked that plane were messengers of God, only terrorists could be that close to the Almighty. Hallelujah! Huckabee for president!
Now I turn to my favorite pastor, Pat Robertson.
"When lawlessness is abroad in the land, the same thing will happen here that happened in Nazi Germany. Many of those people involved in Adolph Hitler were Satanists. Many of them were homosexuals. The two things seem to go together." - 700 Club, 1-21-93 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

"...What kind of craziness is it in our society which will put a cloak of secrecy around a group of people whose lifestyle is at best abominable. Homosexuality is an abomination. The practices of those people is appalling. It is a pathology. It is a sickness, and instead of thinking of giving these people a preferred status and privacy, we should treat AIDS exactly the same way as any other communicable disease..." - 700 Club, 6-6-88 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

"[Homosexuals]want to come into churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the face of ministers." Pat Robertson, 700 Club, 1/18/95 - People for the American Way Web site, http://www.pfaw.org...

"...the acceptance of homosexuality is the last step in the decline of Gentile civilization." --Pat Robertson, of the Christian Broadcasting Network, warned that hurricanes could hit Orlando, Fla., because of gay events there. Time magazine, Oct 26, 1998

"If the world accepts homosexuality as its norm and if it moves the entire world in that regard, the whole world is then going to be sitting like Sodom and Gomorrah before a Holy God. And when the wrath of God comes on this earth, we will all be guilty and we will all suffer for
it." - 700 Club, 9-6-95 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

"You know, one of the great misnomers in our society is the term `gay.' That somebody who is involved in something that is leading to suicide, where the V.D. rate is 11 times that of others, which are almost driven and ashamed and fearful and confused and psychotic and all the others that we read about plaguing this part of our society. The term gay is the most serious misuse of the English language. They're not gay, they're very, very depressed and miserable." - 700 Club, 5-6-82 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

"This conduct [homosexuality] is anti-social, and it is a pathology. It is a sickness, and it needs to be treated. It doesn't need to be taught in the classroom as a preferred way of life..." - 700 Club, 3-7-90 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

"It's one thing to say, `We have rights to jobs...we have rights to be left alone in out little corner of the world to do our thing.' It's an entirely different thing to say, well, `We're not only going to go into the schools and we're going to take your children and your grandchildren
and turn them into homosexuals.' Now that's wrong." - 700 Club, 9-17-92 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

"When you see the rise of blatant open homosexuality and lesbianism, what you also know is God has given a society up...and we're at the mercy of the elements, the mercy of war, the mercy of economic disaster." - 700 Club, 4-26-93 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

"The radical left is doing everything they can to destroy the moral fiber of America. They want to do away with the family. I am absolutely persuaded one of the reasons so many lesbians are at the forefront of the pro-choice movement is because being a mother is the unique
characteristic of womanhood, and these lesbians will never be mothers naturally, so they don't want anybody else to have that privilege either." - 700 Club, 5-18-93 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

"Since our nation was founded, we have discriminated against certain things. We discriminate against kidnappers. We discriminate against murderers. We discriminate against thieves...There are laws that prohibit that kind of conduct. And there have been laws since the founding of our country against what are considered unnatural sex acts, sex between members of the same sex." - 700 Club, 12-24-93 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

"The concept, the word for homosexual behavior is sodomy. That is what is used in the official documents. It is sodomy. It is repugnant. It has been prohibited and proscribed by sane society throughout countless millennia, centuries. People have understood that it is wrong. Now in America, not only is it happening, it is getting civil rights protection in the law, and these people are invading churches." - 700 Club, 1-18-94 (source: People for the American Way Foundation)

"[Gays seek] to destroy all Christians." - People for the American Way, "Hostile Climate," 1994, p.9.

Back to real life again. I think it's working, the last commenter just criticized and debated us. That means they took it seriously and the experiment has some creditability. I think what might help is that your opening arguments are so offensive that people juts can't stand reading it. It is really hard to read AND take seriously. Well, we might actually get our answer.
Debate Round No. 2
foxman

Pro

Gays are bad. That's the long and the short of it. Oh, and to rebut (he he "reBUTT") your argument claiming hat the bible is not against homosexuality, well that's incorrect.
There are those who like to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. Various verses are cited (out of context) and the verses that people use to show that homosexuality is wrong are explained away. The world wants to change God's words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let's look at what it says.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.

What should be the Christian's Response to the Homosexual?

Just because someone is a homosexual does not mean that we cannot love him (or her) or pray for him (her). Homosexuality is a sin and like any other sin, it needs to be dealt with in the only way possible. It needs to be laid at the cross, repented of, and never done again.
As a Christian, you should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same you would any other person in sin. The homosexual is still made in the image of God -- even though he is in grave sin. Therefore, you should show him same dignity as anyone else you come in contact with. However, this does not mean that you are to approve of their sin. Don't compromise your witness for a socially acceptable opinion that is void of godliness.

First, gays cause the holocaust, then 9/11, and now they say we cannot kill them. It is a sad day for humanity when the word of God cannot justify the genocide of an entire group of people based on their sexual preferences, a sad day indeed. Oh also, people are now saying it's cruel, nay, ILLEGAL to kill your children for disobeying you. When God clearly says otherwise! Look: Lev 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." That's concrete evidence, no more of this "spare the rod, spoil the child" crap. It's "spare the stones, be struck down by GOD!!!" america is in dire need of aid!
bcaldwell100

Con

bcaldwell100 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
58 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by toria_2metal 9 years ago
toria_2metal
how can you have the balls to say 9/11 was caused by gays.
i hope your kids come out gay.

and further more you need to brush up on your history with the united states and middle east. open a book.

idiot.
Posted by Lastphoenix0 9 years ago
Lastphoenix0
yes i agree with fabian's question
Posted by Fabian 9 years ago
Fabian
OK thanks, but since I'm agnostic and at certai times my christian friend alwat tell me that there is something that back up the bible.....I ask then what is it?....the answer the always give me....."God only knows"....so yeh I have always wondered of that question here sanother qustion I wuld like to add....Did God created men or men created God?....like the question I have always heard.....which one came frist the chiken or the egg?
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
That's a really bad argument. History is backed up by numerous sources, both objective and subjective. We know George Washington existed and played the part in history he did because of his own writings, those of people he worked with, who served under him, those he fought against, etc. That's the thing, history is VERIFIABLE. Religion is not. As Fabian astutely infers, most of the bible is not backed up with anything. Its support comes from you saying its true. But then you use the bible to support your claims. There if no better example of circular logic than what you are victim of.

Definition of faith, according to Websters: "an unquestioning belief that does not require empirical proof or evidence".

Definition of delusion: "a false, persistent belief that is not substantiated by sensory or objective evidence".

Faith exists in the face of empirical proof or evidence, as witnessed by creationists rejecting of the big bang or evolution. So obviously, faith and delusion are the same since what's "false" is very much subjective.

Once again, I've given a reasonable person plenty of reasons to show why you're wrong. Your delusional mind just won't accept them. That pretty much answers who's being close-minded and dogmatic.
Posted by Fabian 9 years ago
Fabian
OK i got a question ok......your faith is backed up with the bible....but what backs up the bible???????? I always wondered about thet question =]
Posted by soundman 9 years ago
soundman
Faith does not operate independantly of reason and logic......it operates between them. You never saw George Washington. You've never touched George Washington. You can only rely on what history tells us of the man. Is that faith? Yeah. You have faith that what history tells us is true. You have faith that he played the role that he did in the formation of this country. Logic is, the USA exisits today...........you won't agree, of course. One of us is being closed minded and dogmatic. I have invited you to provide me with evidence I am wrong. I am willing to listen. One says, "i dont do science." Basically, if you are going to use reason, don't talk to me. The other says, "I think you are wrong, therefore you are, cause I think so." I want facts. Figures. Reasons. Logic. Gimme some, or go away.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
Those "other" gods never revealed anything to humanity (though, their followers would beg to differ), and neither did your god. For all the same reasons that you write off everyone else's god, that's why I write off yours. "We are all atheists, I just believe in one fewer god that you do".

I would really love to see this logic and evidence of yours. You believe in god because of your faith in him, which by definition and practice is an illogical mindset much more in line with delusion. You're telling me that delusion is logical?

And think about it. "He sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake"...or he'll send you to hell. And you thought I was just talking about santa this whole time, didn't you? Both god and santa keep tabs on you at all times. They know whether you're being good or bad. And come your time of judgment, whether judgment day or christmas, they will both punish you in their own ways. God's stepped up punishment of sending you to hell is just because God is meant to keep adults in line. But both forms of punishment are wielded by those who control the myth are used to control their subjects, whether they be faithful followers or children. Really, the only difference between santa and god is that, when you figure out that santa doesn't exist, no one threatens you with being ostracized or going to hell for not believing anymore. Even when someone tells a firm santa believer that he doesn't exist, that person is meant with a dramatic, emotional overreaction, much like I am now.

I cannot disprove everyone's imaginary friend, or even an imaginary friend that no one has fully thought of yet, but I can disprove the imaginary friend that you love so much through logic and evidence of my own. Of course, you won't acknowledge it as logic because you operate on an entirely different train of thought thats anathema to reason and logic: faith.
Posted by Fabian 9 years ago
Fabian
And that's why I'm agnostic...i don't pick religion and I don't pick science.
Posted by soundman 9 years ago
soundman
Actually, you really didn't do anything to that end. You pointed out that ancient peoples used "gods" to explain natural phenomena, but you haven't disproved the existence of God.
I understand what you are saying. I do. But the Mayan, Aztec, Greco-Roman, African, Asian, etc. gods never directly revealed anything to human kind, nor did they intervene in human history, unlike the God of the Bible. Now, can I concretely prove to you that God exists (i.e. show you a picture), no. But I can present enough logical facts and data to prove that there is a designer much higher than ourselves or the natural processes of this world. That is what I mean by burden of proof.
Posted by Fabian 9 years ago
Fabian
Ok soundmand, humas(us) have a natural insticnt on believeing or creating something greater that us, I'm not implying that God was made up, But back in the ancient time, the Aztecs, Mayan, Greeks, any old tribe you can think of, they had no knloedge of thing like whats the sund why do birds fly, or why it raines, now in effect them seeing all that which in fact was unknown to the they would thik something or someone must have cause this, leading to them to create gods and godesses. So god may be just one of them or there is a chance that he may be real, so i may somewhat proved you that he does not exist.
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