The Instigator
bigbass3000
Pro (for)
Losing
24 Points
The Contender
beem0r
Con (against)
Winning
54 Points

"A 18-0 record makes the NEW England Patriots the best Football team in the last 25 years"

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/29/2008 Category: Sports
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,842 times Debate No: 2299
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (26)

 

bigbass3000

Pro

The New England Patriots are the greatest team in the last 25 years, because they are the only 18-0 team to ever play the game in the last 25 years. This is also based on Statistics. The Super Bowl cannot be mentioned because they have not played yet, so it is based on statistics alone. TO why they are the best on Paper. They have the Number one offense ever. They win games against every team by 38-17 on average of every time in the last 25 years.
beem0r

Con

My opponent's claim is that the 18-0 win record of the New England Patriots makes them the best team in the past twenty-five years. I strongly disagree, though the New England Patriots may very well be the best football team of the past 25 years. If they are, it is not because of their win record, but because of how they have played. Personally, I do not watch sports and have not for any of the past 25 years, so I can't rightly say that the New England Patriots aren't the best football team. However, I can still argue against my opponent's resolution, which is "A 18-0 record makes the NEW England Patriots the best Football team in the last 25 years."

While level of skill and win-ratio might have a positive association, it cannot be said that a higher win-ratio automatically means the team is better. This is because there are several other factors which may affect the win-ratio; it is not solely bound to the level of skill of the team.

I'll now present a scenario to make my point.

Let's suppose that last year, every team SUCKED. All of them. But let's say one team was better than every team they faced that year - enough so that they got a perfect win streak. A comparison of skill to teams of other years could not be made based on this data alone. I'll make that a bit clearer now:

Let's say the year before that, all the teams were AWESOME. However, they were more evenly matched than in the other year, so no team had a dominating win-ratio. However, it is fully possible that every team of that year was superior to the perfect-win-ratio team I spoke of earlier.

While a perfect win-ratio is quite an accomplishment, one cannot soundly draw the conclusion that the team with the best win ratio across 25 years must be the best team of those years. The only criteria with which you could demonstrate that a team is better than another are A> to have the teams compete, obviously impossible for teams of different years, or B> decide which team is better by analyzing the skills of each member individually and each team as a whole.

While by following the advice of point B it could possibly be demonstrated that the NEP are the best team of the last 25 years (if they in fact are), it is quite irrelevant. I'm not asserting that the NEP are necessarily not the best team, but the win record is not what would make them so.
Debate Round No. 1
bigbass3000

Pro

First Off the patriots have the number one offense int he league. Two they have a good defense, top ten, three they are in the area called free agency, meaning they can get the best players and that makes them number 1 the best in the last 25 years. I get the points made by the neg, but, all I am saying is hey on paper statistically they beat all the teams in the last 25 years.
beem0r

Con

They very well might have the number one offense in the league. They're likely the best team this year, though that could really only be said after the super bowl.

Even so, it's a far cry to say they're the best team of teh past twenty-five years. Even if they are the best team of the last 25 years, the win record is not what gives them this title.

My point is this:

Regardless of whether or not the NEP are actually the best team in the last twenty five years, a win record is not enough to make the case that they are. My opponent's position is that "A 18-0 record makes the NEW England Patriots the best Football team in the last 25 years," when this is simply not true.
Debate Round No. 2
bigbass3000

Pro

They don't have the best in the league this season, they have the best ever. The super Bowl has not happened and as I already said it is a statistics debate. My arguement about if you put them up against evey team in the last 25 years, they beat them 38-17. They are the best on paper, which is what I am arguing. Lastly the opponent dropped my salary cap arguement and thus because silence is golden, he agrees with it, thus the Pro wins.
beem0r

Con

I'm curious about this supposed salary cap argument that I didn't address, which you say supposedly makes you automatically win. That's the first time the word salary has appeared in the debate, so I don't know where that supposed argument up and ran to.

Your argument is that they have the best win record in the past 25 years, and this makes them the best team. I'll repost the argument I made in round two, to which your only reply was that "I get the points made by the neg."

Let's suppose that last year, every team SUCKED. All of them. But let's say one team was at least better than every team they faced that year - enough so that they got a perfect win streak. A comparison of skill to teams of other years could not be made based on this data alone. I'll make that a bit clearer now:

Let's say the year before that, all the teams were AWESOME. However, they were more evenly matched than in the other year, so no team had a dominating win-ratio. However, it is fully possible that every team of that year was superior to the perfect-win-ratio team I spoke of earlier.

You simply dodged the entire debate, reasserting your points and not addressing my counterpoints. If anyone 'wins automatically,' it's me. However, there's no automatic win or lose in a debate. It simply matters who the voters think did a better job. Accordingly, I still believe I will win.

I've clearly shown why a perfect win record is not sufficient to declare someone the best team. It could only be used to compare them to the other teams they faced, but not to teams from completely different years.

Also, remember that I'm not asserting that the patriots aren't the best team in the past 25 years, I'm simply stating that a perfect win record is not the criteria by which they would be declared such.

If you don't mind, Pro, I'd like you to leave a comment filling me in on the so-called salary cap argument you supposedly brought up.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA

f*** THE PATS

THEY LOST

THE GIANTS CRUSHED BRADY AND HARRASSED HIM

ELI WAS THE BETTER QUARTERBACK

WHAT A GREAT GAME

GIANTS BAYBEE

F*** BELLICHECK THAT JERK

AND BRADY THE PRETTY BOY

THE PATS LOST AND ARE NOT THE GREATEST TEAM AT ALL

THE NINERS AND STEELERS WERE BOTH BETTER

AS WERE THE COWBOYS
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
Oh, and Beem0r wins since the pro does little to defend his position against Beem0r's assault.
Posted by Logical-Master 9 years ago
Logical-Master
Best team ever my foot! After that shameful excuse for football I just watched tonight, I wouldn't even rank them in my top 5.
Posted by griffinisright 9 years ago
griffinisright
Great debate beem0r, you put up a much better fight! Bisbass just needs more compelling information and less knee-jerk emotion if he wants to start winning debates. I sense a lack of interest or motivation.
Posted by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
Bigbass - if anything, it makes them the best team THIS YEAR. The 07-08 NEP have a 0-0 winning record against every team from every other year.

Another analogy, if you still need it:

A team who goes undefeated in the Special Olympics basketball is not necessarily better than an NBA team who gets an average win record. Here, the Special Olympics represents the 07-08 season, where the NBA represents any other years you're trying to make a comparison with based solely on a win record.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
While I do hold that the New England Patriots are the best team in the last 25 years ( heck unless they disprove me in the super bowl the best team ever), Con takes the vote because
Pro's arguments for the thing were indeed obviously wrong.

"Btu would they have gone undefeated facing the teams of each of the past 25 years? " There is no football club that could face every team of the past 25 years and win every game. So that is not the issue. If we took every team of the past 25 years and had them all play against each other once, without any aging or injuries occurring for the course of the season (would be a several year season no doubt in this mythical universe), the New England Patriots would (I hold) end up with the best cumulative performance, and that is a far better approximation of what is at issue.
Posted by bigbass3000 9 years ago
bigbass3000
Yes, It does mean that, when you have great players in one team, it makes for a 18-0 season. Second, the record does make them number one because winning is the record.
Posted by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
Meaning that they can get the best players?
this has nothing to do with whether or not they're the best team of the past 25 years. The 'best players' this year aren't necessarily the best players of the past 25 years. Nor do the best players this year even mean the team as a whole is the best team. It's not just about individuals' skills, but their ability to work well as a team.

Also, they're not the only ones in said group, nor are they the only ones to have been in the past 25 years.
Posted by bigbass3000 9 years ago
bigbass3000
It's called free agency, the same thing.
Posted by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
But*
While it's possible*
I wish I could edit my comment to remove typos, but that's the best I can do.
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