The Instigator
Shafer117
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
whyt3nn3rdy
Con (against)
Winning
16 Points

A Man/Teenager Who Watches My Little Pony: FIM, cannot immediately be considered gay

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
whyt3nn3rdy
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/2/2012 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,269 times Debate No: 23351
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (15)
Votes (5)

 

Shafer117

Pro

My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic was an almost immediate Internet phenomenon, instantly winning the hearts of thousands, and angering many people who, for some reason, always hate on MLP whenever they can. Most of these people instantly call men who watch MLP gay. I argue that Bronies, (a man who watches MLP), are not always gay. Even though there may be Homosexuals who watch MLP, a brony, such as myself, cannot immediately be considered gay. I myself have had a few girlfriends, so I start this debate with the above argument. Thank you, and I am sorry if I'm not doing this right, this is my first debate.
whyt3nn3rdy

Con

Because Pro offers no definitions, I will offer some myself.

In this debate:

Cannot will be defined as: "the negative form of can" [http://www.thefreedictionary.com...]
- where can will be defined as: "to indicate that which is permitted, as by conscience or feelings"[http://www.thefreedictionary.com...]

Consider will be defined as: "to come to judge or classify" [http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Now, onto my case:

1. Consideration

Using my definition, absolutely everyone can consider someone to be something, or to consider one thing to mean another. I considered accepting this debate, but that does not mean I had to. Essentially, to consider something is not to let it be true.

A man/teenager who watches My Little Pony: FIM, can indeed be considered gay immediately. We could consider that man to be a flying purple people eater. This does not make it entirely true, but believed.

2. Ability

As I've defined above, the word cannot essentially means that one is not able to do something. In the framing of this resolution we are to believe, on the Pro side, that a man/teenager who watches My Little Pony: FIM is not able to be considered gay. This is untrue. There are no rules, or laws that do not make other people less able to consider these people gay.

Essentially, Pro wants us to believe that we are not able to consider these people gay, that it is not permitted, however there is no law denying us the ability to consider these people gay, and there is certainly no permit needed.

Onto refuting my opponents case:

1. Bronies != Gay

I concede that just because a man or teenager enjoys My Little Pony: FIM does not mean that he is gay.

For all of these reasons, please vote Con in today's debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Shafer117

Pro

To start off, I am sorry I did not offer definitions. As I have stated, I am new to this and still learning.

The Con is suggesting that my argument is telling people that they cannot consider bronies gay. My argument is actually stating that people should not immediately consider bronies gay. Here is the definition to immediately:

without lapse of time; without delay; instantly; at once

Here is the link: http://dictionary.reference.com...

What I am getting at in my argument, is that most brony-haters immediately consider bronies gay without even taking the time to learn about them. For instance, lets say I joined a chat session. The people in the chat are taking turns telling about themselves, and it is eventually my turn. I tell the group right off the bat that I am a brony. Now, lets say that some of these people in the chat are brony-haters, and are immediately calling me gay. I didn't even have the time to explain anything about myself and they are already calling me gay.

Many bronies know that this will happen a lot to them. Many people on the Internet and in the real world would immediately consider them gay, without a second thought.

My point in my turn of this round is that bronies must first be proven gay in order for other people to call them gay.

For this I ask that the voters vote in the side of the Pro, and thank you.
whyt3nn3rdy

Con

Pro pretty much claims that he is changing the resolution because of my arguments. Changing it from "A Man/Teenager Who Watches My Little Pony: FIM, cannot immediately be considered gay" to "People should not immediately consider bronies gay." Because the resolution of the debate cannot be changed just because Pro does not want to respond to my arguments, this will be dropped and instead made into a contention, as opposed to the resolution.

So, as I've said:

1. People should not immediately consider bronies gay.
Pro does not support his claim that people should not immediately consider bronies gay. All he says is that they shouldn't. He makes the argument that some people may consider him gay without him having explained more about himself if he immediately calls himself a brony. If Pro does not like this, I will pose a simple solution to this problem. This solution is that Pro, and other bronies do not immediately introduce themselves as a brony. Of everything that you could tell people, being a brony is not the most important.

2. Pro claims that "[his] point... is that bronies must first be proven gay in order for other people to call them gay." I will start by cross-applying my Consideration contention that anyone is able to consider someone to be something. I can consider you to be a purple dragon, but that does not mean that I know you are. In this point, all I have to prove is that someone does not have to be gay before I can call them gay. Is this at all logical? Nope. I can go out and call anyone gay before proving that they are.

You may extend my 2 contentions because Pro did not attack them, but tried to change the resolution because of them.

For all of these reasons, please vote Con in today's debate.
Debate Round No. 2
Shafer117

Pro

If you believe that I am changing my argument, please post two seperate statements from my argument and explain how these are contradicting eachother. (Please also include line numbers)
whyt3nn3rdy

Con

Pro wastes his round only attacking my position on him changing the resolution.

"1 To start off, I am sorry I did not offer definitions. As I have stated, I am new to this and still learning.

2 The Con is suggesting that my argument is telling people that they cannot consider bronies gay. My argument is
3 actually stating that people should not immediately consider bronies gay. Here is the definition to immediately:

4 without lapse of time; without delay; instantly; at once

5 Here is the link: http://dictionary.reference.com......

6 What I am getting at in my argument, is that most brony-haters immediately consider bronies gay without even taking 7 the time to learn about them. For instance, lets say I joined a chat session. The people in the chat are taking turns
8 telling about themselves, and it is eventually my turn. I tell the group right off the bat that I am a brony. Now, lets say 9 that some of these people in the chat are brony-haters, and are immediately calling me gay. I didn't even have the
10 time to explain anything about myself and they are already calling me gay.

11 Many bronies know that this will happen a lot to them. Many people on the Internet and in the real world would
12 immediately consider them gay, without a second thought.

13 My point in my turn of this round is that bronies must first be proven gay in order for other people to call them gay.

14 For this I ask that the voters vote in the side of the Pro, and thank you."

Pro asks for line numbers, here they are.

Pro essentially changes the resolution from "A Man/Teenager Who Watches My Little Pony: FIM, cannot immediately be considered gay" (seen in the resolution, and paraphrased in line 2) to "people should not immediately consider bronies gay" (line 3).

Changing the resolution is dropping my arguments, as I said. I do not have to debate the new side that Pro takes on, but the original one. And by essentially dropping my entire case from the last round, Pro forfeits this one by only asking me about line numbers and to explain my arguments.

Extend all of my previous arguments to this round.

Voting issues as of now:
*Con dropped my entire case.
*Con forfeited this round by asking a question that could have been asked in a real rebuttal or in the comments section.
*I have proven the resolution to be in my favor.

NOTE: I am not saying that people who watch My Little Pony are gay, I am saying that people are able to consider them gay. Again, this does NOT mean that I believe they are gay.

For all of these reasons, please vote Con in today's debate.
Debate Round No. 3
Shafer117

Pro

So, the Con is saying that all of my last argument contradicts myself. Please read the definitions of should not and cannot:

Should: must; ought (shouldn't is the opposite of should)
not: negation, denial
Link: http://dictionary.reference.com...
Link: http://dictionary.reference.com...

can: to be able to
not: negation, denial
Link: http://dictionary.reference.com...
Link: http://dictionary.reference.com...

Should not and can not obviously go together, they don't contradict each other. The Con is wrong because these two phrases obviously go together and you argued that my whole last argument was contradicting my statement. And my last argument was not a waste of my turn. I just wanted you to point out my contradiction.
whyt3nn3rdy

Con

Please note that my case has still been dropped.

I never said that the resolution Con seemed to change his mind to was contradictory of his first one. I just said that changing the resolution in an attempt to drop my arguments in a way that would make it seem like Pro doesn't, is unfair to this debate. By changing the resolution in the second round, Con cops out of every one of my arguments that were against the resolution itself, therefore dropping them.

We can see that:
1. Pro misunderstood my initial argument about definitions.
2. Pro has dropped my case for these two rounds.
3. Pro copped out of two rounds now to argue a single point that I claimed his two resolutions are contradictory (which I never did).
4. I posed a solution in the second round of this debate that solves for Pro's problem about being considered gay because he is a brony.

Again, my initial arguments were not that bronies are gay. My argument was that other people are able to consider them gay.

For all of these reasons, please vote Con in today's debate.
Debate Round No. 4
Shafer117

Pro

For the ending of this debate, I will just do a very simple argument to end with.

If you look at round two of my argument, I posted an example that happens to a lot of bronies. I posted that example just to show you people what happens to bronies when they meet a bronie-hater.

I also did not change my resolution, I stayed with the same thing throughout the time, and maybe the Con was just confused because I worded it differently.

The Con said that he doesn't think bronies are gay, and I respect that, but we are basically getting on the same lines of "bronies must first be proven gay" in a way.

So let's have a fair voting session shall we?
whyt3nn3rdy

Con

Again, my case is essentially dropped.

I conceded that Bronies are not always gay, and that's simple.
However, my arguments were against the wording of the resolution.

If we argue that A Man/Teenager Who Watches My Little Pony: FIM, can or cannot immediately be considered gay, I am arguing that a man/teenager who watches My Little Pony: FIM can immediately be "considered" gay. This is true. We are all able to consider someone to be something. I can consider my parents to be unfair, or my teachers to be mean, but this does not mean that they are. It does not matter if they are or they are not, I am still able to consider them in such a way. Though I do not personally consider Bronies gay, other people can immediately consider them to be gay. Therefore, I have proven the resolution to be in my favor throughout this entire debate.

Even if this argument is not accepted, I win on solvency because I solve for the problem of Bronies being considered gay. If they introduce themselves with more information about themselves such as "I've had 3 girlfriends in the past" before they claim they are bronies, they cannot be considered gay.

I do not think Bronies are gay, so please do not vote on this debate claiming that that was my message throughout all of my arguments, because it was not, from the beginning. In the first round I stated: "I concede that just because a man or teenager enjoys My Little Pony: FIM does not mean that he is gay." Therefore, I win on my two arguments that Pro dropped that attacked only the resolution.

Thank you, Shafer117, for a very interesting debate, I hope the voters are fair as you do.
Debate Round No. 5
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by JusticeBringer125 4 years ago
JusticeBringer125
Lol the power of semantics
Posted by Shafer117 4 years ago
Shafer117
whyt3nn3rdy, I also felt that we could get a lot more out of this argument, and we could also have a little bit more fun, so I'm challenging you to another debate of the same topic, just I changed the cannot to should not, so the voters can still see more of this debate.
Posted by Shafer117 4 years ago
Shafer117
Traviki, I thank you for putting all of your points towards me, but I don't deserve them. Even though your point may be true about him jumping over the fact that i said cannot instead of should not, it was my screw-up and I should have (the irony :D) fixed it while i had the chance. Everyone please subtract those seven points from my score.
Posted by Travniki 4 years ago
Travniki
You turned this into an abusive topic because the resolution wasn't airtight....I actually don't know why you are winning
Posted by whyt3nn3rdy 4 years ago
whyt3nn3rdy
@Travniki

If you want to give him a fair introduction to DDO, show him what voting fairly is. Because he's nice, and new does not give him points.
Posted by whyt3nn3rdy 4 years ago
whyt3nn3rdy
It's not a problem, we all have the first debates where we have no idea what we're going. I'm new here too
Posted by Shafer117 4 years ago
Shafer117
Yeah, sorry again if I did not do this right as this was my first debate, but it was a great learning experience. Thanks for a challenging debate whyt3nn3rdy.
Posted by whyt3nn3rdy 4 years ago
whyt3nn3rdy
Yes, and I posed a solution to it.
Posted by Shafer117 4 years ago
Shafer117
Okay, I didn't post this argument to find out if I really was gay. (and I'm not) I posted this argument because I was sick and tired of bronies getting beat up on.
Posted by whyt3nn3rdy 4 years ago
whyt3nn3rdy
I really hope I get voters that actually understand my argument, and not people that think that all people who watch My Little Pony are gay. Please read carefully.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Koopin 4 years ago
Koopin
Shafer117whyt3nn3rdyTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: kfc
Vote Placed by OberHerr 4 years ago
OberHerr
Shafer117whyt3nn3rdyTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter VB Travniki.
Vote Placed by Travniki 4 years ago
Travniki
Shafer117whyt3nn3rdyTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: I think it was obvious that Pro wanted to debate that People who watch MLP "should not" immeadiately be considered gay. Because pro said "cannot" con hijacked the debate to turn this into an abusive topic in which pro could not win. I give all seven points because pro is a beginner, and extremely nice, but suffered from semantics .This should not be how new comers are treated on DDO, there was a lot of content that could have come out in this debate and Con played around with little word games
Vote Placed by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
Shafer117whyt3nn3rdyTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: pro dropped many of con's arguments, pro's own arguments were unstructured and inconclusive. For the record the one person I know that is a "bronie" is the GAYEST person I know so I do have a reason to believe that bronies could be CONSIDERED to be gay.
Vote Placed by 1dustpelt 4 years ago
1dustpelt
Shafer117whyt3nn3rdyTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con proved people are ALLOWED to consider them homosexual