The Instigator
JTSmith
Pro (for)
Winning
42 Points
The Contender
rnsweetheart
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points

A National Curriculum: Lower Education for a Lowerclass??? I think not...

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/21/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,925 times Debate No: 3321
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (14)

 

JTSmith

Pro

For me the passing of a national standard of education is the only way that makes sense.

1. I am the son of a military officer and so I move on average between every 2 and 4 years. Because of that I have had to transfer credits and it has been ridiculously inconvenient. For example, everyone who has lived in northern virginia knows that the school systems up there run at about the 2nd highest standard of learning in the US. When I take an Algebra II class in North VA and it doesnt transfer to my high school in Alabama (the 2nd lowest standard of learning) because my old high school failed to write Algebra II/Trig instead of just Algebra II, theres a problem. Anybody who moves out of state is subject to opinions of a school conselor as to how their credits are transferred.
Also, the different standards for graduation can stop a senior from graduating. Had I remained in Alabama I would not have been able to graduate without summer classes simply due to the fact that alabama requires 28 credits as opposed to VA's 24 or colorado's 22. It was nothing that I did...just changes in standard that I couldnt avoid.
If we were to use a National Curriculum plan, none of these would be problems for nomadic families. The standards would be the same everywhere.

2. How is it fair that any student who takes an AP Class in N.Virginia has at least an hour of homework just for that class, while a student who takes an AP in Alabama often has no homework at all??? Having moved around as much as I have, their seems to be a very noticeable difference between schools around those of a wealthier class, and those of surrounding poorer areas. Now certainly u can expect some difference in average scores, but I am reffering to the standards of education. It is 10 times easier to graduate from high school in montgomery alabama than it is to graduate in fairfax, va. In Mississippi high school is a joke, and in Colorado it at least takes some effort. So why is it that an Alabama High School Diploma means as much as a N.Va High School Diploma??? I had to work 100 times harder to get the N.Va one...
My point in all of this is that we are measuring students differently based on their societal positions and then calling them equal. If everyone regardless of race, gender, and social class is generally equal in intellegence, then why are we lowering the bar for lower classes? It comes down to basic Universal Equality. Shouldn't everyone be treated as if they all all share the same genereal level of intellegence?
With a national curriculum, everyone from the Florida Keys to Seattle, Washington would be judged by the same equal standard. That sounds more fair to me than the current state based curriculums.
Why should someone in Alabama get a diploma for learning that the civil war happened in the 1860s sometimes and that their state joined the union in 1819, while the students in N.Va and Massachussetts get the same diploma but have to learn individual battles and dates and have to know all of the states, their capitols, and their major landmarks. I mean, when I have to learn the names of Every country in the world, their capitols and major geographical features and cities...and still not recieve a geography credit in Alabama...where many people couldn't tell you where vietnam even was (and still get a diploma)...there is a problem...
If everyone is equal, than everyone should be judged according to their general equality. People in Alabama should no have an easier ride to graduation than the people in N.Va just because they live in Alabama and people in N.Va should not have a harder route to graduation just because they happen to live in N.Va.
rnsweetheart

Con

People in the lower class deserve lower education, because they are lower. There is only a few disenfranchised individuals who are harmed. And since it is soo small it does not matter.
Debate Round No. 1
JTSmith

Pro

People in lower classes dont deserve a lower education!!!
Thats not fair to them. Dooming them to the same fate as their parents because the state wont offer them a better education only contributes to the poverty problem. Not to mention it passes judgement on people based their social class.
This is america!! Its not a aristocratic caste system where only the elite can get a higher education.

Further more, it is not small at all! Ive seen it. The difference is huge! In order to "raise their standards" for graduation, the state of Alabama began using series of graduation exams. Every student must pass all of these exams to graduate...
these exams...u only need to get 40% correct to pass. My sister didnt need to pass hers seeing as we werent going to graduate in Alabama anyway so she marked completely random answers. ...she passed.

Further more...another point I did not make in my last argument is this.
Nowadays there are schools changing rules. My younger brothers and sisters dont get A's and B's...they get P and PP V and such nonsense...
Schools not far from me have removed grades entirely! Im not even sure how that works!
Other schools are now changing to grading rules so that a missing assignment is still worth 50%.
Our schools are lowering the bar and changing the rules so that no child "fails".
This is a serious problem. We our pampering students to be unprepared for a world where failure is a reality. Thats one of the beauties of school. It teaches children to gradually take more and more responsibility for their actions.
Now...were are taking that away so we dont "hurt" our kids.
If we had a national curriculum...schools changing rules would be nearly impossible. Charter schools would be supervised by the government.

There are so many advantages to this.
My biggest point though is EQUALITY...
Giving people lower education because they are in a lower class is not equal. It is only setting a lower level of expectations on kids who dont deserve it.
rnsweetheart

Con

"People in lower classes dont deserve a lower education!!!
Thats not fair to them. Dooming them to the same fate as their parents because the state wont offer them a better education only contributes to the poverty problem. Not to mention it passes judgement on people based their social class.
This is america!! Its not a aristocratic caste system where only the elite can get a higher education.", It is fair, they are obviously dumb, which is why they are lower class. Why should we lower the standards all the time. It can only lead to a dumbing down of America, we should get rid of the dumb people in society.

"There are so many advantages to this.
My biggest point though is EQUALITY...
Giving people lower education because they are in a lower class is not equal. It is only setting a lower level of expectations on kids who dont deserve it.", Equality can never be achieved ever. Their is always going to be some students disenfranchised by this system, which will lead to lower standards. All in all forget the dumb people, we need elites to run are soceity.
Debate Round No. 2
JTSmith

Pro

These kids aren't dumb!
They dwell in the lower classes because their parents screwed up, not them. If we dont allow them a better education, simply because they are poor, then they are going to remain poor. Chopping up any hope of a better future for these kids because of their parents mistakes is not fair.

Second, this is not an elitist society. Here elitism doesnt even work because those poor ignorant folk who were doomed by the current school system are still voting. Because of the way our country works (and I love the way we pick our leaders) these uneducated people's opinions still count. It is to our advantage to educate them.

Lastly, deciding that someone is dumb based on their class is pure ignorance. Ive lived in the most expensive area in the country and I have lived around the poorest areas in this country. i have seen both types of people and every side has dumb and smart people. I have hung out at my friends trailor park and Ive watched movies in a friend's 16,000 dollars basement home theater. A childs intellegence has nothing to do with their social class. It has to do with their enviroment. if schools are placing a stronger emphasis on education, then the kid will care more about their education. These schools in poor areas, aren't. They are trying and they aren't helping the students try. This is a problem that is easily fixed by a national curriculum and a national standard.
rnsweetheart

Con

Their parents were dumb, and their children become dumb, so they are dumb. Look at it this way, it is the greatest good for everyone, makes it easier on the lower class, how are statisticly proven facts, partically common sense, they have higher drop outs and graduates at college. Vote for the neg for reality.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by elphaba1389 9 years ago
elphaba1389
First of all, my vote goes to the "Pro" on this one. =)

Second, I live in Alabama unfortunately. Our school system, unless you go to a magnet school, does suck. Our graduation exams are a joke; a guy in my class drew a big smiley face and STILL PASSED. Reason for this? Illiteracy. To be bluntly honest, Alabama had one of the highest illiteracy rates among graduating seniors. As a result, they inplimented a "graduation exam" so that the illiterate kids couldn't pass. Unfortunately, they made it so easy that anyone who can draw a smiley face can pass. Unfortunately, some don't. This year, my high school has 60 seniors not graduating because they didn't pass. Me? I passed mine on the first try during my sophomore year.

Does my school's sucky system reflect my personal intelligence? Certainly not. I was raised on the "A Beka" program, since I was raised in Private schools from K4-7th. When I came to public school they told me that I needed to skip a grade but had missed the test date. I was farther ahead. I mean, these kids were learning Pre-Algebra in 8th grade when I would have been learning Algebra II. By 6th grade, I knew how to balance a checkbook and Trigonometry. I had 40 vocab words a week in Private school and tests that were actually hard. I am an AP student at my public high school, and I have been since my 10th grade year when the only AP class available for sophomores was AP U.S. History. Junior year I was slammed with 4 AP classes, 3 of which were in one semester. And this year, I have 4 AP classes on top of a job, and extracirriculars. I work my butt off for my grades, and I do have homework most nights.

Honestly, if you don't take AP classes in Alabama, you're not challenging yourself. My freshman year, I took honros classes, I never studied or even opened my book and I still made straight A's.

And let's not even talk about general classes! JTSmith will understand why I say this =)

Good debate JTSmith, but their are smart kids in AL. =)
Posted by SweetBags 9 years ago
SweetBags
pro raises a good point about standards, but as far as diplomas being of the same value, colleges dont value a diploma from a low standard state as much as one from a good state.
con is classist and fails to use any logic whatsoever, all conjecture and opinion.
pro does a good job rebuting, and bring in another good point about schools changing standards. however he fails to explain the equality point.
con again classist, assumes poorer classes are all just dumb, and thats why their poor. also seems to advocate "getting rid of" dumb people, yet raising standards would make them smarter, and therefore eliminate the "dumb" (not meaning to sound classist or knowlegeist here, just making a point)
pro rebuts well and uses logic
con doesnt
Posted by Vi_Veri 9 years ago
Vi_Veri
I don't think that you should grant someone lower education and give them the same degree someone gets when fighting harder grading.

That sounds like anti-advancement to me.

Vote for Pro from me.
Posted by Evan_MacIan 9 years ago
Evan_MacIan
I can't vote for either of you. The problem is not the curriculum. The problem is bad teachers and students who don't give a damn. That is not something any curriculum will solve.

Is Alabama's curriculum stupid? Absolutely, but that stupidity is a reflection and not a cause of local stupidity and apathy about education. Changing the curriculum won't fix the problem, it will simply expose the problem. And since we're talking about the problem, it's probably been exposed already.
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