The Instigator
Theunkown
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

A United States of Africa exists.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/18/2014 Category: Places-Travel
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,021 times Debate No: 60606
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

Theunkown

Pro

Looking at the resolution and my stance you might think I am crazy. Maybe I am(:P), but I am convinced that a United States of Africa does indeed exist, and I have the BoP.

Round 1 is acceptance only, if con argues in round 1 (which I doubt is even possible) then he will have the leave round 4 blank to avoid losing conduct.

Defenitions[1]:

Africa:"The second-largest continent, a southward projection of the Old World land mass divided roughly in two by the equator and surrounded by sea except where the Isthmus of Suez joins it to Asia."

State: "A nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government"

United: "Joined together politically, for a common purpose, or by common feelings"


Sources:
[1]http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...;
lannan13

Con

I accept this debate and look forward to a great intellectual debate. There is one word that my opponent needs to define and did not, so I'll define it here.

Sovereignty- Supreme and unrestricted power as of a state. And an independent state. ( http://dictionary.reference.com...)
Debate Round No. 1
Theunkown

Pro

Thanks to my opponent for accepting the debate and I accept his definition of the word 'Sovereignty'.

P(Premise)1 - The African union exists and the African union is in Africa
P2 - The African union is united

P3 - The African union is made up of states
A1 - Therefore a United States of Africa does exist



P1 - The African Union exists and the African union is in Africa

Not much to defend here, this is common knowledge (and common sense). The African union has its own website[1] and its own flag[2]. The fact that the African union is in Africa should be self evident in the name.


P2 - The African Union is United

There is obviously some level of unity between members of the union. If there was no unity between members, they would not be part of the union (for eg. Morrocco, damn secessionists!)


P3 - The African Union is made up of States

As defined in round 1, a state is a nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government. An example of such a state would be the State of Israel. Israel may not be in Africa however, I mentioned Israel so that you, dear reader, know exactly what I mean by the word 'state'.
Ethiopia, Botswana, South Africa, Lesotho, Egypt, Mali etc are also states by this defenition and they are all members of the African Union.


Since all 3 premises are true, the logical conclusion is that a United States of Africa does indeed exist.

I hand the debate to Con to make his opening arguments and rebuttals.



Sources:

[1]http://www.au.int...;

[2]http://en.wikipedia.org...;
lannan13

Con

A State needs 4 things to exist. Government, Territory, Sovereignty, and Population. In order for the African Union to meet the 'A United States of Africa Exists' then it must meet these 4 traits.

Contention 1: Territory

If you take a look at the African Union page you can see that their 2nd objective (quoted in contention 2) of Territorial integrity means that it will not cause seccionist movements and/or territorial changes. (https://www.princeton.edu...) This means that the African Union mustn't do anything to gain territory. Also if you see that it promotes territorial changes with only apply to nation states that are apart of the African Union. Thus showing the African Union does not have territory.


Contention 2: Sovereignty

In order for a this United States of Africa to exist it must have sovereignty. This means that there is no higher power it reports to and no buffers in the way, but unfortunately this is not true. The nation of Morocco has left the African Union over disputes about the territory of Western Sahara. (http://www.thebrenthurstfoundation.org...) If the African Union were a state then it would not have been able to let Morocco leave as it is illegal. I bring you the White V. Texas Court Case. Yes, I understand that it is for the United States of America, but it still has parallels and is relevant to this debate. They found that the Articles of Confederations bonded together the states and when the Constitution was written it only strengthened it. "To form a more perfect Union." Comes to mind.

To make things better if you visit the African Union website and view their objectives and you read bullet point two here.

"To defend the sovereignty, territorial integrity and independence of its Member States" (http://www.au.int...)

This shows that the African Union does not have power over the member nations in the African Union and thus cannot be a state.

If you observe state right, one can find that international laws and treaties do not supersede that of a state's Constitution and/or law. Thus showing another point to where the African Union does not have Sovereignty. (http://www.sweetliberty.org...)

Contention 3: Population

Another trait that a state must have is a population. How many people live as citizens under the African Union? Not one. So this is another point that shows that the African Union is not a state.
Debate Round No. 2
Theunkown

Pro

Quotes from Con are italicized and underlined.


My opponent's contention are based on the premise that the United States of Africa is itself a state.


A United States of Africa CONSISTS of states, nobody says it is a state in itself.

When water drops are united the result is, say, a lake. The lake is not a water drop but it does exist and consists of water drops.
Now replace 'water drops' with 'states' and the word 'lake' with 'United States of Africa'.

In order for a this United States of Africa to exist it must have sovereignty.
By this logic the African Union does not exist because it does not have sovereignty, neither does the European Union, or ASEAN, or even the United Nations because none of them have sovereignty but they still exist.
I do not have sovereignty, but I still exist.


This means that the African Union mustn't do anything to gain territory [to have territorial integrity]

So since the United States of America gained vast territory in the past 238 years, it must not have territorial integrity either. Based on my opponents arguments, the United States of America has no territory.


Another trait that a state must have is a population. How many people live as citizens under the African Union? Not one. So this is another point that shows that the African Union is not a state.

Ok African Union (United States of Africa) is not a state. But it does exist.
lannan13

Con

Contention 1: Sovereignty

I never said that the AU doesn't exist. I only said it wasn't a state due to the fact that it's not sovereign. These other entities exist, butthey are only organizations not actually states.

Contention 2: Territory

The United States has territory as it has recognized boundaries. The Territory integrity is stating that they will not provoke reolutions in other nations or invade other nation's for land.

Contention 3: Population

My opponent concedes here and this is highly important. In order for the 'United States of Africa' to exist that my opponent is talking about, it must be a state, not an organization.

Contention 4: United States of Africa

No this is my opponent's greatest mistake here. He states that the United States of Africa exists. This means that Africa is completely united under such an organization, but this is incorrect based on the fact that Morocco left due to disputes with another nation that the AU would not take care of. Here showing that they are not United. When you also add into the account that my opponent dropped my argument on Sovereignty and that the AU does not have any authority over the states that are in the AU this shows that they are not United as they are all guided by their own nation's goals. Thus meaningn that the United States of Africa does not exist.
Debate Round No. 3
Theunkown

Pro

Contention 1: Sovereignty
I never said that the AU doesn't exist. I only said it wasn't a state due to the fact that it's not sovereign

My primary arguments thus far leads to the conclusion that the African Union (AU) is the United States of Africa, Con has not adressed thsoe arguments instead he argues about Sovereignty, territory and population which have little to do with existance.
The African Union (and the United States of Africa) do not need to be a sovereign state to exist.


Contention 2: Territory
The United States [of America] has territory as it has recognized boundaries. The Territory integrity is stating that they will not provoke reolutions in other nations or invade other nation's for land.

2 points:
a) The African Union (US of Africa) has recognized boundries which is the entire continent of Africa (and the adjacent islands considered part of Africa) except Morrocco.

b) The United States of America is notorious for provoking revolutions (the extremist islamist Taliban insurgency in Communist Afghanistan) and invading other nations for land and puppet states, notable examples include the Spanish American war, the Mexican American war and the Vietnam war. Of course, the US of America will not say they invaded for land, but in the 2 of the 3 wars mentioned, the US of America did win and did take land. Therefore con's contention is invalid.



Contention 3: Population
My opponent concedes here and this is highly important. In order for the 'United States of Africa' to exist that my opponent is talking about, it must be a state, not an organization.

The fact that the United States of Africa is an organisation (which Con himself implies) shows 2 things:
a) The various states of Africa have agreed to be united into this organization.
b) It exists

I will say this yet again, the US of Africa does not need to be state to exist. The United Nations is not a state but it is an organisation and yes, it does exist.
The metaphor I used in the previous round further proves the point:
"When water drops are united the result is, say, a lake. The lake is not a water drop but it does exist and consists of water drops.
Now replace 'water drops' with 'states' and the word 'lake' with 'United States of Africa'. "



Contention 4: United States of Africa
This means that Africa is completely united under such an organization, but this is incorrect based on the fact that Morocco left
No, this does not mean that the entire continent is COMPLETELY united under this organization. The United Nations has not COMPLETELY united the world under their organization but they do exist. The African Union exists yet it has not completely united Africa.


Conclusion:

The fact that African Nations have come together for the African Union shows that they are to an extent unified, while they may not be as unified/federeated as the US of America, there is a level of unity similar to that of the United Nations.

To simplify things: The African Union has some level of unity between African states, hence the African Union can be called a United States of Africa. Since the African Union exists (even Con acknowledges this), a Untied States of Africa exists as well.

The United States of Africa does not need 'sovereignty', 'territory' or 'population' to exist anymore than the United Nations does.

All Contentions of Con sufficiently rebutted by Pro, Pro's premise have been unchallenged apart from unity premise where con's contention was sucessfully refuted. If there was no unity within African Union members, well they would not be in the union.

I rest my case. Thank you for the debate.


lannan13

Con

Contention 1: Sovereignty

The United States of Africa does need these things to exist. The reaoning behind it is that my opponents uses the word United. These nations are not united, but are in a Union. In a Union the states are together, but are highly separeate much like the US under the Articles of Confederations. There basically was no Union at all.



Contention 2: Territory


1) These boarders may be recognized (except for Morrocco), but what's to say a classroom at a school from having a recognized boundry? You look into a room and you know that the room belongs to Mr. Smith.


2) My opponent is highly incorrect. I was merely stating that the AU needed to have territory intergrity. I never stated that the US had this. I have stated that this is one of the African Union's own policies and it recognizes that it's not a state. My opponent's water drop theory is highly incorrect as his argument is basically saying. I own my property, a bird landed on my property, and I own the bird. This is completely false. Just because there is a grouping does not make it a United States of Africa.


Contention 3: Population



Refuted in my last contention


Contention 4: US of Africa


In order for my opponent to win this debate he must prove that the United States of Africa exist, but you see the tricky part here is the fact that he has included of Africa. This means that all African states must be members. Morrocco, an African state, is not a member. Thus showing how Africa is not United.



In conclusion, we can see that there is no United States of Africa. The AU is not a state and does not meet the requirements and I have shown in this debate that Africa is not United. I have also shown how my opponent's symbolism is highly incorrect.



Thank you and please vote Con!

Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Theunkown 2 years ago
Theunkown
haha I just saw this

http://en.wikipedia.org...
Posted by Max.Wallace 3 years ago
Max.Wallace
Pro is a rule making bully. Fancies themselves all knowing and worthy of judgeship.
Posted by lannan13 3 years ago
lannan13
I'll respond later today.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 3 years ago
9spaceking
Theunkownlannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: con gave enough proof that not all states of Africa are united