The Instigator
WOLF.J
Con (against)
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The Contender
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
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A conversation w/ a religious man

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/9/2018 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 week ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 358 times Debate No: 107759
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (33)
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WOLF.J

Con

Much like my other ongoing posts w/ an atheist, i want to have a formal professional conversation , not a debate, w/ a man of faith. Again il be impartially nonbias. And again viewers can vote Pro if you feel he conveyed himself well. Moreover he can feel free to address the criticism he receives as we progress.

Questions will vary each round but all relate to the question of belief. And again my MO is to gain various perspectives on god.

R1 is acceptance and a brief introduction from Pro as to give an insight into why/how he became religious.
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

I accept this debate:
Becoming a Believer in 1980, with preternatural occurrences with witnesses, I met both God and Satan on the same day. This had the desired effect. Despite the miraculous and terrifying, you would think a person would be committed to holiness walking. Nope. Like all believers, it was a process. The acceptance SEALED me to God, but My lack of faithfullness could not be maintained and I forfieted the initial experiential closeness that the new believer recieves.
Over time having the priviledge of NO religious learning- meaning my perceptions were not corrupted by humanity, I read the scriptures, having learned early that Man was not to be my teacher but God himself, is the teacher of the Saints.

This answers the question as to WHY, my testimony and preaching are Gods Word specific, no interpretation, no opinion, no thoughts beyond reflections. This explains WHY, I am harsh against any Believer who through lack of commitment REMAINS Bible illiterate. This explains WHY I KNOW the truth of the Gospel, which differs from the denominations... As a Disciple, i am denied an opinion, or thought regarding truth. Truth IS truth, and is unalterable by human interpretation. I am first and foremost slave to God and Christ, and happily so. He IS ABOVE all that I hold dear ... including myself, my wife and children.
Greetings to all.
Debate Round No. 1
WOLF.J

Con

Interesting, you have certainly made some highly noteworthy points to discuss. Firstly, and most importantly, I'm going to ask about what your life was like pre-1980, in order for us to better understand how you became a man of the scripture, so pray share that story.

I know many people who have claimed divine intervention but normally because of their prior naive reckless socially wild behaviour, would you say that applies to you or no?

After you've discussed that, let's really get to know you on a moral level, you say you have no opinion other than promoting scripture, but the scripture itself is filled violence and what not, much like the quran, so what i want to know is: to what extent would you put your faith in God over being morally just. Eg the holy Bible is exclusive for Christians as you mentioned, but that means good, communally aware people like your buddhas, gandhis, and dai lamas are hellbound, right?
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Pity you’ve wasted a round on the useless. Who I am, is of no account. What my morals WERE like humanities today … is pointless.

The scripture is FILLED with HUMAN VIOLENCE! The DEAD need not discuss the bible as they have NO KNOWLEDGE of it. You've HAD the Bible for 2000 years and STILL have no clue!

Still I hate to WASTE a perfectly Good round. So let’s talk REAL TRUTH. Difference between the truths … Man’s truth and Universal truth (God’s), is made obvious by the ABSENCE of selfish or personal motive. Humanities entire concept of TRUTH is based solely on LIES!

LGBT- is a perverse lifestyle, based on LIES, complete lies!

REAL TRUTH cannot BE altered, it is true universally, and CANNOT BE CHANGED BY HUMANITY, That’s how you know real truth from a lie … can’t BE altered, for political, or personal agendas.

The TRUTH about LGBT!

The absence or presence of the Y chromosome determines GENDER.

If you have the Y you’re NOT a GUY! Period! Not now not ever! See how simple that was?

REALITY CHECK.

Question: Can Surgery alter the presence of the Y chromosome in you?
Answer:NO

Question: Does what a person THINKS alter the presence of the Y chromosome?

Answer:NO

Question, can Science give you any medication that REMOVES or ADDS the Y chromosome?

Answer:NO

Question: Can any scientific data ALTER the fact that the Y Chromosome determines SEX of the baby!

Answer: NO

Question: Now that you have been reminded of this FACT! You Girls who identify with being a Man … are YOU EVER GOING to ACTUALLY BE A MAN?

Question: GUYS if you DON'T have the Y are you a Girl? Why not? Mcfly?

Answer:NO


In conclusion of this subject: Does what YOU IDENTIFY WITH have ANYTHING to do with REALITY! Uhhh NO!

you can Identify with a fillipino, Girl, man, dog, cat, cow ... BUT that doesn't MEAN CRAP. Reality SAYS your a FEMALE if you have the Y chromosome and it says your a MALE if you DON'T? Take up with your psychiatrist! Not your government, who are obviously not the sharpest tools in the shed! I mean this is basic biology! For Pete's sake!

So are the LGBT perverts?

Answer: Go ahead everybody already knows … YES!

How do we KNOW?

Because a pervert IS:

1.the alteration of something from its original course, meaning, or state to a distortion or corruption of what was first intended.

2.sexual behavior or desire that is considered abnormal or unacceptable.

synonyms:deviance, abnormality; distortion, misrepresentation, falsification, travesty, misinterpretation, misconstruction, twisting, corruption, subversion, misuse, misapplication, debasement, abnormality; depravity, degeneracy, debauchery, corruption, vice, wickedness, immorality.


Next topic: Reality. That the entire Hell bound human race ... has the belief that because THEY HAVE NOT FOUND GOD ... bear in mind they never actally LOOK. So Can't FIND Him ... there's a surprise eh? Anyway, that THEY haven't found God, that they would be so stupid as to believe that NO ONE has, is asinine in the extreme, and shows a warped sense of intelligence, not to mention a complete and total lack of common sense!


Your an excellent example ... you TALK about scriptures but leave out the part that SAYS under NO circumstances CAN YOU UNDERSTAND IT!


just gonna skip right over THOSE scriptues and just going through it looking for something to cry about! Get you ... OHHH here's truth ... R.I.G.H.T!

You mentals couldn't even figure out that the Y chromosome determines the Gender of the Baby and you WERE TAUGHT that IN SCHOOL! But yeah, let's all listen to YOU!

Okay that pretty much is below the belt, but Cmon people WAKE UP! LISTEN to those who KNOW! Haven't you realized yet that it IS THE BELIEVERS WHO KNOW! God gives us the Reality and the scopp of everything that's gonna happen. The fix is IN, we are Saved, while YOU?

ARE:https://www.youtube.com...

Debate Round No. 2
WOLF.J

Con

What does LGBT have to do with this conversation?
Its ashame you chose to politically divert that round, It was essential you told us about you in order for us to get a better understanding of yr perspective. Note the heading is a conversation w/ a religious man, and not a religion itself.

So If you may, please do repeat that round. Or you can say you dont wish to do so, but next time dont attempt to discredit the clearly impartial interviewer, for you risk losing your audience.

Nonetheless lets commence Round 3, and here we will address the root causes of Christianity-
1, In his day Jesus was a polarising figure, and it wasnt until the latter roman era that his ideologies gained political recogition, moving from fringe to mainstream , considering this can you whole heartedly Christianity hasn't been corrupted by politics. Sticking to the scripture,ayk my no.1 fallacy with that is that it was written by man, can you justify and clarify this for us.?

2, Apart attacking evolution theory, and without proclaiming divine intervention, [that is too simple and vague for a response ], can you justify creationism to a skeptic.

3, Do tell us of day in 1980 that changed your life.

And feel free to continue responding in the comments.
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

You are "not" listening again, listening to yourself and not me? The LGBT IS a BIG DEAL ... if you cannot SEE a simple truth, How in the World can you see the GREAT TRUTH!

Look back you will see the inescapable truth of LGBT. Can you not see the TOTAL TRUTH in its simpliest form? The answer for the ages wholly in front of your eyes, yet obviously INVISIBLE to humanity as a WHOLE?

That the Y chromosome DETERMINES gender! Thus there can be NO TRUTH in the LGBT arguement at all. Yet You BELIEVE they have some point, when IN REALITY they have NONE! The point was NOT the LGBT ITSELF, the point IS TRUTH ITSELF! And that though it IS right in front of YOU, you cannot see it at all.

But you'll believe a LIE? Can you not see the Lostness of Humanity at large when an ENTIRE populace cannot see the simpliest truth's of the REALITY of the World they Occupy?

How can you determine truth of a Religious Man when you CANNOT see truth that lies readily before you? Therein lies the problem itself. You listen ONLY to what YOU desire to hear!

God states no Man SEEKS God. That TRUTH is ignored by the masses ... WHY? Because you have NO DESIRE to, JUST like you completely MISSED THE TRUTH of the FACTS that MAKE LGBT False! You cannot pick and Choose the TRUTH's you will hear! Yet that is precisely What the world has been doing since creation itself!

As to MYSELF? I did say, you just are not Listening, which is not My fault is it. Your Biased in hearing.

The Bible is the TRUTH of the ages, revealed to Man but IGNORED by the masses, like LGBT humanity cannot see what he has in front of Hom, by curse yes, because Man innate sinfulness prevents man from seeing TRUTH as a whole. every truth you believe in is tainted by personal infleuances, which makes our truths lies.

But I will attempt to reveal to you what you have in your midst, with the knowledge that you'll never see it, no matter HOW I explain it! Because your a crure consumed by habit and sin! you will see questions not answers! Let's begin.

while your caught up in the HISTORY, I see the Future, While your caught up in the Past, I'm caught up in the instruction, While your plodding around in the question, I am recieving the ANSWERS of Humanity, past present and future! The TRUTH ...UNIVERSAL TRUTH lies within the Bible, and NONE of you have the slightest clue OW to get to them. That's Supernatural, you cannot see that but it is MIRACULOUS none the less.

That the GREATEST MINDS in the WORLD cannot get those truths, yet a small child CAN see them. Then once adult, they LOSE the ability to see them. Can you NOT see the miraculous occurrece in such events.

Consider Santa Claus as a example ... Children have an ability to see what adults cannot, they are caught up in Truths Adults cannot see, yet the moment the hit puberty, the DOUBT and poof, the miraculous IS GONE!

You won"t understand ... just more questions and no answers ... onward!

The BIBLE tells the History of the World ... NOT America, though it IS there, no it tells of the Creation itself, FROM INCEPTION! Because you only see questions, you MISS the answers. It THEN continues to Speak of HUMANITY itself ... HY the human mind see's as it does, WHY it misses TRUTH for its OWN personal corrupted truth!, It immediately Follows with instructions, teachings learnings, Aletrations in Human perspectives, we move from the world of the Human to the Superhuman.

Over TIME, the Human, as they become AWARE and AWAKENED by the creator of all things ... the TRUTHS that were pure begin to be noticed by the mortal. And this not of themselves ... Rather a REVEALING. Just as A man is drawn to His bride,just as they become ONE over TIME (not speaking of the current state of affairs ... where they are all lust driven). I speak of the TRUE LOVE experience that IS UNCONDITIONAL!

(Today, marriage is based on whether your mates pleases you or not, that's lust not love!)

You have become animals, without thought, instinctual only! That is why TRUTH eludes you! Your only looking for fleshly satisfaction, not truth, you don't CARE about truth only fulfillment, FLESHLY fulfillment, you can look at your own lives and you WILL see IF you choose to be honest that your entire LIVES are based on YOUR OWN happiness, and no one else's.

Still, that IS The Human Condition since the Fall of Adam.

I must move on to get to your other questions. Understand that Like an egg is shell+white+yoke to BE THE EGG, So to MUST Man BE Body+Soul+Spirit to be MAN. At present an in YOUR current STATE. You are Body+Soul that makes you HUMANITY NOT MAN, you are incomplete and shall remain so. You have NO ability to UNDERSTAND even the simpliest TRUTHS JUST as I have shown you ... because the TRUTHS? exist in the Spirit of God, and I have the Spirit of God, YOU do not, THAT'S WHY, you have ONLY QUESTIONS while I have not questions but ANSWERS, and this not of myself. I AM COMPLETE in Christ and God while you remain incomplete, the intellect absent from the body, you ca only see what you stumble over, while the Believers SEE the PATH, The DIRECTION, The PLAN. aww I'm running out of room. God flows through me and I cannot contain it, yet I know that for the MOST part my words are in VAIN! it will reach one IF the Lord wills. For me? One IS ENOUGH!

Man's beginning. The lies of Men are chock full of Holes. Simple truths derail SCIENCES foolish notions. To many QUESTIONS HAVE NO ANSWER for evolution to have EVER BEEN TRUE. For example ... the BEGINNING? Without using imagination ... can you tell US how a microscopic creature moves from the microscopic World to OUR World? Answer: NO, but neither CAN SCIENCE today! That's a fact you can check the results by individual test ... to date NO thing created in labs from science have gone from nothing to something in THIS reality. EVERYTHING REMAINED MICROSCOPIC! That isn't dogging evolution, it simply shows it's been wrong all along!

But even if something DID ... it would have crawled out AND DIED! no food, no one to create with? No one to protect it, No one to mate with ... and as we all know from biology, we ONLY procreate BY EGG! and 99% MUST BE FEMALE, then 99% MUST BE fertilized by male of the SAME species? See to to many empty questions. The biggest being what science HAS PROVEN. the Primordial ooze can produce microscopic things but NOT ANIMAL LIFE! Just microbes, which remain microscopic, amino-acids, which remain microscopic, single and multicell objects that REMAIN microscopic. No EGGS!

That man is so gullible to believe nonsense is the compeling factor ... what of the population disparagment? Based on just Math we should be in the 100 BILLIONS not 7 Billion if we HAVE been here ON Earth for 200,000 or 2 million years?

1790 population of the US alone 3,929,214 ...... 227 years later? 323,928,727 in the US alone. we literally doubled 82.4411006883310 times in 227 years That includes civil war times.

So we are to believe that the population which grows exponetially, took 200,000 years JUST TO REACH 3.9Million then in ONLY 227 years to OVER 323 MIllion? Honestly ... don't you think the Evolutionary Scientists just FAILED to check their imaginations with the MATH department, and were simply unaware that the US BEGAN census in 1790, bt never BOTHERED to check their numbers?

The problem appears to be one of the Human factors of Humanity! Question and Doubt without factual checking of anything ... just UH-UH appears to be the Norm of humanity ... nobody LOOKS.

I mean you DIDN'T question evolun and it WAS WRONG! But you Question Creation, and your RIGHT? Oh Please! You've not gotten a single thing RIGHT so FAR have you! yet you STILL trust yourself?

The simpliest answer is usually correct. God created all things AS ADULTS which STARTED the reproduction process. Mom's bore the eggs which made babies ... Like it really DOES hppen today. Parents nourished the infants and protected them to adulthood so THEY could produce, etc... Etc... etc...




Debate Round No. 3
WOLF.J

Con

Why on earth would the interviewer provide answers???!! , I'm here to get answers. Im trying to be diplomatic with you, but your completely disrespectful as usual. Ego aside, I'm satisfied with the overall responses. But I'd press why you chose to attack evolution when the people want more in depth analysis of creationism.

Anyways, il maintain my great integrity, and IMPARTIAL NONBIAS, so the next questions,

1) Is there any existing evidence that could prove contradictory in your beliefs, in your own eyes?

2) The main problem against religion is that God permits natural disasters and diseases, can you comment on this?

3) One of your main concerns is that today's information age society is becoming less engaged with religion, what implementations would you want to promote to change this trend?

4) Feel free to quote a few Bible verses that can impact/convince newcomers with most effect. ie the ones you feel impacted you the most.

5)Do you think religion will continue to stand the test of time, considering the sciences and technologies have only been growing in recent decades, ie it lasted 2000 years bc of no intellectual competition. ?
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Go back and RE-READ my responses ... this time actually CONSIDER what it is saying, because your still not Hearing it! I am "not" surprised but your answers ARE there, if you CHOOSE to disregard YOUR OWN THOUGHTS and hear Gods thinking.
When I sit to reply, I am thinking of nothing myself. I simply am responding to the questions. YOUR putting emotion into what IS being said. I assure you I have NO EMOTION as I sit here, reading.

You CAN ONLY SEE, what you ALLOW yourself TO SEE!, Your part is to ask questions ... THE READERS are to respond to the answers IN the comments section. That's not what your doing ... YOUR responding to the answers, and that's okay, but not at the moment you need time to DIGEST the answers, mull them over! Evaluate them from the point OF TRUTH, not what YOU "THINK", as I have already PROVEN, you KNOW NO REAL TRUTH? because YOUR THOUGHTS are wholly BIAS towards personal desires, wants, lusts, greed etc... which IS HUMAN truth, corrupted truth! Mine are REAL TRUTH TOP driven, beyond what YOU can understand in the here and now! UNBIASED with regard to mankind completely, serving ONLY the Universal Good!

You SAY you want answers but you already respond in the REFUSAL to consider the answers above your own. The example is that I TRULY KNOW God, you don't I HAVE LOOKED AND FOUND you have not, yet it is YOU, your listening to? You see NO bias in this?

No matter. Stop responding till the end of the question THEN respond ONLY in the Comment section for clarifications.

1) Is there any existing evidence that could prove contradictory in your beliefs, in your own eyes?
NONE WHATSOEVER!

2) The main problem against religion is that God permits natural disasters and diseases, can you comment on this?
Answer; What are you a fish? Besides you DON'T BELONG TO God, you belong to Satan! That question should ONLY come from a Believer ... OH that's Right Believers DON'T ask that question do they?

Ever wonder WHY? I suppose not!

anyway ... why should the Creator of the Universe care in the slightest about what takes you to Hell? Not being facetious, what has you asking a question that is rediculous in its asking?
You refuse to seek Him? You refuse to obey Him, you refuse to quit sinning, you refuse to live your life in any way but as YOU WANT ... YET you have the nerve to blame HIM for preventing your demise, in whatever fashion it comes?

So the MAIN problem ISN'T God. You give God absolutely NO REASON to exempt YOU from disaster, mass killings, rapes, pillages and plunders, WHICH by the way ARE BEING COMMITTED by YOU SINNERS! Not by Gods people, because despite your utter corruption WE are to FORGIVE you, and for the most part ... do. So cry in your soup, but your doing it to each other, God isn't doing it to YOU! he just isn't protecting you from the consequences of your choice!

Like what's happening right NOW ... YOUR allowing DEPRAVITY to flourish, yet cry when it kills you?

Honestly, go back ON LINE and FIND a Believer whose whining about that subject of how unfair God is ... Won't FIND ONE! yet there are 2.2 Billion of US out there? Why do YOU THINK your not seeing or Hearing US whining about such things? There's a reason! but YOUR going to have to find that for yourselves! I'm not gonna give you the answer, because just like from the beginning of this discussion, your UNWILLING to SEEK the answers for yourselves ... that VERY MUCH implies your not seriously CONCERNED about it. Just something to whine about. Not DO anything about?

I and 2.2 Billion Souls DID something about it, so now WE have NO REASON to whine about the evils of the World, The disasters of the World, The Hatred in the World ... I and THEY went to God and God fixed it for US, how He fixed it is Gods business, and ours as individuals! So want the FIX? Get your butt over to God. Otherwise stay on the hamster wheel. Me I did something about all the presence of Evil, the Disaster things, the starvation thing, the Needs to survive thing, and am prepared for whatever Comes. My tickets punched and I'm ready to ROCK. Your not, but you COULD BE. It's always BEEN up to you, but so far ... you trust is all in YOU, and you already KNOW you can't save yourselves, so how many times do I have to repeat myself for you to wake up and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!


3) One of your main concerns is that today's information age society is becoming less engaged with religion, what implementations would you want to promote to change this trend?

Absolutely NONE! IT IS a SIGN of God, revealed in 2 thessalonians to the Saved! I would not DREAM of altering it, because it means that the BEST is yet to come for the saved. In the scripture it speaks of the Tribulation time (7 year timespan which beginning HEARLDS THE END of the Church Age, the END of the GIFT of Eternal Life for FREE!) The World is self distructing, because of the TREND you just spoke of? Your pulling AWAY from God ... that's called in scripture ...The Great Apostasy; 2 Thessalonians 2

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[b] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.



5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

So you see I have no inclination to alter or change the plan ... because it is the visibility OF the Plan that REVEALS to Gods people the sign of the times, which gives Gods people the HOPE for which we have clung to for 2000 years, heralding its approaching, and WE can visually SEE the Finish Line COMING INTO VIEW after 2000 years of waiting ... for YOU terror, yes, but for US joy unspeakable!


4) Feel free to quote a few Bible verses that can impact/convince newcomers with most effect. ie the ones you feel impacted you the most.

As memory serves I KNEW NO SCRIPTURE at ALL. I simply was asked by my Daughter if I would go to Church with her, and Her smile touched me, so I said yes. During the service I don't really RECALL anything the Preacher was saying, I just kept looking over at my daughter and she would smile and I would feel warm and fuzzy you know the feeling, next thing I know There was a pulling, to the preacher, and For resaons I can't get into it appeared like He was talking about ME, and TO me? As I listened he explained my want as a Human being, he described a life spent wasted on the things of the World, the things that ... were fleeting, unfulfilling ... you know like that feeling you get when you get a new car, and new computer or a new girlfriend but after a short amount of time, their JUST a car, JUST a computer, JUST a Girl, nothing special, and your off looking for something ELSE, which after a short while becomes JUST a thing all over again.

5)Do you think religion will continue to stand the test of time, considering the sciences and technologies have only been growing in recent decades, ie it lasted 2000 years bc of no intellectual competition. ?

Honestly and by all scriptural accounts ... OUR TIME has run out! We are just waiting for the Tribulation time to Start! That 7 year time frame that at its end BEGINS a millennium with ONLY 2.5 Billion Still LIVING at it's beginning! that's 5 Billion DEAD within 7 years.

Debate Round No. 4
WOLF.J

Con

Okay then, if you insist. This was definitely an intellectual debate. It was difficult putting my ego aside because it is a known fact that you get under people's skin. Nonetheless, i believe i maintained my composure.

But Sorry just to clarify why am I 'not allowed to ask' certain questions, is it because im not Christian? You already knew that, so why accept in the first place, I'm the interviewer I can ask what I like, this debate is about your stance on religion remember, not religion. I can ask, simply because people can change for the better! Sure i let you try dictate my interview, and put up with your discrediting attitude, however at least i got some answers,better than nothing. Further demonstrating my great attitude!

Anyways, I'll admit you've taught me that fearing God isn't necessarily a bad thing, considering I'm just walking around aimlessly with my personal issues.

In conclusion, we'll let the peoples decide who had the better conduct. Vote '55 if you think he was professional and formal. Otherwise vote for your boy Wolfy (if my questions were concise and relevant)

I am also going to be restarting this debate with another religious bloke, probably leejohnson, per his request. For I actually want my questions answered in full!

And apparently we normal folk are going to die in 7 years. Funny you say 7 years, because our cells change every 7 years, our personalities adapt in 7 year phases. Il be in the mists of my Quarter life crisis by then! How exciting!!!

Thanks bro, bet no one has ever thanked you before hey, hey!!
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

But Sorry just to clarify why am I 'not allowed to ask' certain questions, is it because im not Christian?
Short answer;YES.

What we HAVE is knowledge that of itself IS Holy.
Matthew 7:6 6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

The immature Believer asks immature questions ... Like does God Love everyone and that sort of thing. This is a pointless question, because YOU Love people YOU cannot SAVE also, WHY? free will! They simply refuse to go to God. Like missmedic ... go back and re-read her last statement? You put "Depending on how well follower responds to medics post"?

What was I to post about ... the statement was a declaritive statement, she asked NO question she simply stated "and what I know and how I reason will keep me from believing"!

Sure God can love her, so can I but neither one of US can save a LOST Soul who rejects ... well just read it yourself;

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

1 John 2:23
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

In closing "A conversation w/ a religious man" it is perhaps MOST important that you as the readers understand first and foremost that RELIGION cannot save you, nor anyone THUS it is fitting that you HEAR FROM a Religious Man, that YOU CANNOT BE SAVED BY Religion!

The Why, is recorded in Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

This is what will lead you to Salvation, the knowledge that the WAGES of sin IS DEATH! So there MUST BE shedding of Blood for your SIN to be atoned for! No other religion requires that YOU DIE for your sin, but 1.

There is not a payment FOR YOUR SIN in any other ... BUT your immortal Soul is acutely AWARE of its SIN. Thus there MUST BE PAYMENT for this sin, blood atonement, which is offered NO WHERE ELSE! So of ALL religions in the World NONE can save you. You MUST PAY or HAVE PAID your sin debt! and THAT comes ONLY IN CHRIST.

and it is this that brings to life John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 3:23 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood--to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--

***Now perhaps you see the differences between the TRUTH of the Gospel and the Falseness in all others, as it IS WRITTEN;

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved."

Colossians 1:28 He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:6 Among the mature, however, we speak a message of wisdom--but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.

Colossians 1:22 But now He has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence--

***THIS is the reason all who worship the DEAD (gods) are themselves dead! Because remision of sin which MUST be atoned BY BLOOD comes ONLY in one! and by HIS STRIPES we are ...HEALED!***


So this religious man? relies on NO RELIGION to save him, for he KNOWS it is impossible. I serve a RISEN savior a Living King, who DIED that I might LIVE. My acceptence of HIS SACRIFICE on my behalf, and the FORGIVENESS of sins existence within MY LIFE PAST,PRESENT,FUTURE ring ever clearly as the SOUNDS of the NAILS reverberationg through the ages as they CRUCIFIED and put to DEATH, the one and only Son of God ... That whosoever Believes in HIM, The BLOOD SHED OF CHRIST HIMSELF, wash away IN ATONING GRACE all SIN in THIS ONE religious Man!

To HIM have I committed myself as bond servant, and slave HAVING RECIEVED the GIFT of eternal Life through the forgiveness and pardon by so GREAT an ACT OF LOVE, by one who LOVED ME, while I was yet a SINNER! How can I not ... how can YOU not!

So then is it Christian Religion that Saves US? No of course not ... it is Christ Jesus through the will of the Father who HAS saved us in the shedding of HIS BLOOD!

You yourselves know and appear MORE than willing to cry "Why so many different beliefs in Christianity ... remember? So IF RELIGION COULD SAVE YOU ... well there you are!

It IS the PERSON of Jesus Christ who saves and HE IS only in the Christian Denominations! Because they PROFESS the NAME of JESUS, ALL CLAIM the Forgiveness of SIN THROUGH the Shedding of Christ BLOOD! THAT is WHY they are saved ... it IS A GIFT OF GOD and this "NOT OF THEMSELVES" written here;

Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

To understand more than this requires the Spirit of God, which at present is not within You. But the answer lies in my other debates should you chose to seek it out.

The actions of the Denominations does not cause them to LOSE a Gift, merely rewards for their conducts or LACK of conduct in this world, there IS NO CONDEMNATION to any of them, as they ARE FORGIVEN!

We indeed are Human just as you, we are separate from the world in various ways and distances, but in all other ways we are the REDEEMED of Humanity. Our Heavenly Home is ours by Gods grace, and Gods faithfulness, not our own!

You would do well, to seek God while He may YET BE FOUND!


in closing let me say I found it refreshing this brief respite. I appreciate it ... thank you WolfJ.




Debate Round No. 5
33 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by WOLF.J 5 days ago
WOLF.J
he's only been "friendly" recently, since I said I loved him for his insanity, I think that was the first time anyone said that to him. Anyways, il respond to this in a bit.
Posted by judaism 6 days ago
judaism
You sound very much like a friendly guy - saying you'll let us all burn, how nice. Tomorrow, when I'll have the time, I'll REFUTE everything you said.

P.S., I do hope we can debate, as you're finally see WHY we Jews don't believe in Jesus. Question for you: Do you truly think G-d is a menacing being who will let me burn in hell for all eternity JUST BECAUSE (to use caps) I see my Bible differently than you?

. . . I hope not, this is not the G-d I worship!

Shalom, Sir.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 week ago
FollowerofChrist1955
"Who are YOU, that I should waste time in pursuit of the lost,"
OOPS. meant to say, that I should sacrifice time seeking the lost! I don't chase Atheists either ... no point, Pharisees and Atheist are the same ... it's NOT that they DON'T BELIEVE ... it is that they OPENLY REJECT Christ!

It's a Cliche' but those kind of people are like a Rabid dog .. there's no medicine for them ... you just got to let them be PUT DOWN!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 week ago
FollowerofChrist1955
judaism;
Who are YOU, that I should waste time in pursuit of the lost, Pharisees sought the god of SELF then and continue that pattern today! Christ had nothing to do with you fellows , I see no point to alter that situation today?

YOU "people of the book?" REMAIN disobedient to God. The Law of Moses REMAINS unchanged yet For all intents and purposes, the Jewish practice of animal sacrifice ended in AD 70, With the temple gone, there is no longer a place for the sacrifices to be offered according to the Mosaic Law (see Deuteronomy 12:13"14). Repeatedly in the Old Testament, the point is made that sacrifices were required to make atonement for sin (e.g., Exodus 29:36; Leviticus 4:31; 9:7; 14:19; 15:15; Numbers 15:25). The shedding of blood is what consecrated things and people to the Lord (Leviticus 16:19).

THUS THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK; abandoned Gods commands long ago? ALTERED Gods word! Knowingly? Willfully? ... ADDING to, DIMINISHED the ought of His command? that you No LONGER NEED obey the Levitical Law in areas YOU decide are no longer REQUIRED? You are ATONED for in your OWN MIND are you? Of what use is it, when you KNOW what is require and DO NOT DO IT! Your not ONLY outside the Camp, your not even in the same Hemisphere!

YOU ... uh ... people of the book? REMAIN WITHOUT ATONEMENT, and Hell IS THE COST. ATHEIST is what you are? At least THEY ADMIT they DON'T KNOW GOD!

You do not " KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD YOUR GOD WHICH HE COMMANDED!" PROOF your WAY? WRONG! Contact the Jews for Jesus, you may yet have time.

Perhaps God may direct me to address you further, but unless He directs otherwise? I've no time for you. Scriptures dictate God WILL be dealing with YOU people Himself!
Posted by judaism 1 week ago
judaism
@FollowerofChrist1955

You say miracles are working today in our world, where are they? Show me where G-d/Jesus comes down to earth and interviews with nature because Judaism holds to the view that this is not possible when prophecy doesn't exist.

You claim we've reinterpreted Scripture. . . how far from the truth is this? Jews have been the people for the book from the very beginning! It was the Christians who "altered" Scripture with the publishing of the Septuagint.

Yes, we don't need Jesus to save us, nor is the Devil in cahoots with evil, in fact, if you look in Scripture, you'll find a foreign concept in there Christians are sadly unfamiliar with. . . and that's the notion that Satan "works" for G-d, he isn't His enemy, such a theory is nonsense in Scripture as none of G-d's angels ever revolt against Him throughout the Jewish corpus. To lay claim that only knows who believe in Jesus are saved is to damn 70% of the world. . . and you dare call this god merciful?

I won't!

G-d isn't like that, He doesn't punish us for things we don't know, the Talmud says all people have a share in the World to Come, even atheists - as long as they played their part of the bargain by living decent lives.

Last;y, your interpretation of Leviticus 17:11 is almost laughable, you've isolated the verse from context and twisted it to mean something Moses could have never dreamt of! If you want to debate the matter, we can, because Leviticus has NOTHING to do with blood atonement expiating for the sins of humanity.

By a stroke of irony, it is YOU who have twisted and misrepresented Scripture, and you should be ashamed of yourself in laying claim that we Jews are blinded. You're just wearing Christian glasses.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 week ago
FollowerofChrist1955
WolfJ;
You see my friend, with the Modern Religious? It"s ALL about THIER THEOLOGY, not about Gods WORD!
They alter it at will, under the delusion that ... well, it was TRANSLATED so it WAS corrupted, so of COURSE THEY are correcting it, goes the delusion. Then the wonder WHY THEY have NEVER MET God, save in their MINDS!

All they HAD to do ... was OBEY, and they COULD BE SPEAKING WITH, watching God perform the most miraculous things STILL TODAY, but ... NO. They are decieved of the devil, and drawn further and further from the truth, in their OWN DECEIT.

Like you and the other unsaved, how can you be reached, when your entire Workld revolves around YOUR INTELLECT. The devil has always placed IN HUMANITY, thier greatest ENEMY ... SELF.

This is why it REQUIRES humanity to Bow, SUBMIT HIS OWN WILL, to FIND the Savior. There"s ONLY ONE SAVIOR and it ISN"T anyone born of Man and Woman! Keep believing in yourself? And your already DEAD and Buried you just DON"T know it!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 week ago
FollowerofChrist1955
WOLF.J;
You want TRUTH or opinions?
Notice Judaism"s responce quote "It seems like FollowerofChrist1955 cannot provide the answers you want about faith and theology"

Look carefully at the statement ... tell me if you SEE the error in his words, and the TRUTH BEHIND his words?

Judaisms thoughts are Flawed because of so many factors in light of scripture, they begin by violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 Easily proved because of Proverbs 30:6, which always occurs when Humanity, in the religious sector violate the instructions of 2 Peter 1:20 which is brought into being by believers failure to reach for discipleship requirements of Luke 9: 23, Mark 8:34, and Matthew 16:24.

Judaism will Lead YOU astray because he violates multiple scriptures not the least of which almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
The Levitcal laws are not maintained as after the destruction of the Temple, no altar is present or exists for sacrifice.

Leviticus 17:11 'For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.'

Wolfj, remember Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

Deuteronomy 1:3
In the fortieth year, on the first day of the eleventh month, Moses spoke to the children of Israel, according to all that the LORD had commanded him to give to them,

WHO BUT MOSES spoke for God? The charge of overseeing passed to Joshua WHEN DID Joshua rewrite OR ALTER the Law of Moses? IF He did not, WHERE is it Written that Humanity MAY ADD TO OR TAKE AWAY FROM the Law given to Moses? . Sacrifice HALTED by destruction of the Temple. Where IN the Scared TEXT, Did Joshua ALTER Levitical Law with regard to requirements of sacrifice upon the ALTAR?
So much for Judaism. Though important still.
Posted by judaism 1 week ago
judaism
For TheMarketLibertarian, I'd like him to know that I'm still working on my second response to him. I've added new material, you'll be shocked when I publish it as it's now about 60 pages!

For WOLF.J, sure! Though please understand that I can't work on Shabbat, so please give some leverage in that respect, hence, it would be well to run the debate under 72 hour time slots instead of 24. I always try to work this way, give people some room to breathe and you'll be surprised what good thoughts can come out of them.
Posted by WOLF.J 1 week ago
WOLF.J
Judaism, would you like to dm me your thoughts on the questions posed, or post it here in the comments?
Posted by TheMarketLibertarian 1 week ago
TheMarketLibertarian
Judaism flaked out on his debate with me. Don't waste your time
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