The Instigator
Stupidape
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Akhenaten
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

A diet of only whole fruits and vegetabes with sufficient calorie intake is ideal for health.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/14/2015 Category: Health
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 400 times Debate No: 82586
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

Stupidape

Pro

Pro will contend for the resolution.
Con against the resolution.

This is a factual resolution.

Resolution: A diet of only whole fruits and vegetables with sufficient calorie intake is ideal for health.

Example: Raw whole fruit in the morning, five bananas and five apples.
Two 24 oz green smoothie with dates, flax-seed, banana, and kale and steam vegetables for lunch.
A huge salad including grapes, apples, and spring mix for dinner.
Intermittent snacking of raw fruit, celery, seaweed, and carrots.
Akhenaten

Con

Your diet hasn't got any vitamin B12 in it.

Vitamin B12 is a water-soluble vitamin that is involved in the function of every cell in the body. It is tightly involved in the formation of blood and the function of the brain.

Deficiency usually results in anemia, impaired brain function, symptoms of mental disorders and a smaller brain.

There is also evidence linking B12 deficiency to Alzheimer"s Disease, which is the most common cause of dementia in Western countries.

The only good food sources of B12 are animal foods like meat, fish and eggs.

A deficiency is widespread among vegans and vegetarians, who avoid these foods. In one study, a whopping 92% of vegans and 47% of lacto-ovo vegetarians were deficient in this critical brain nutrient.
Debate Round No. 1
Stupidape

Pro

"Your diet hasn't got any vitamin B12 in it." Con

Pro begs to differ. "Microorganisms are the only natural sources of the B12-derivatives" [1].

"All fruits and vegetables contain some B12, but it's often in small quantities. Organic fruits and vegetables contain significantly more, however.

Why?

Bacteria eat decaying organic matter and excrete complex nutrients into the soil, including B12. This is then absorbed by plants, with some staying in the roots and some making its way into the leaves for us to take in. "[2].

B12 deficiency can occur in meat-eating humans. "Vitamin B12 deficiency is estimated to affect 10%-15% of people over the age of 60" [3].

"Vitamin B12 is a water-soluble vitamin" Con

True.

"The only good food sources of B12 are animal foods like meat, fish and eggs." Con

Meat, fish, and eggs might happen to have B12 inside. Yet, the source is microorganisms [1].

A deficiency is widespread among vegans and vegetarians, who avoid these foods. In one study, a whopping 92% of vegans and 47% of lacto-ovo vegetarians were deficient in this critical brain nutrient. " Con

Con uses no outside sources to back up his or her claim. Note, there are junk food vegans. Most French fries are vegan. Potato chips are vegan. Raw organic fruit contains some b12 from bacteria in the soil. Any processing removes some of the b12 producing bacteria. Besides there are b12 and multivitamin supplements.

"1. Vitamin B12 is a waste product of a bacteria that can be found in and on the foods we eat (of both animal and plant origin).
2. B12 is also produced in the intestine and the mucosa of healthy humans." [4].

In summary, B12 comes from bacteria. Bacteria found in soil, plants, and animals.

Links

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
http://www.raw-food-health.net...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
http://wilddonna.com...
Akhenaten

Con

1. Quote -Bacteria eat decaying organic matter and excrete complex nutrients into the soil, including B12. This is then absorbed by plants, with some staying in the roots and some making its way into the leaves for us to take in.

Reply - This source of vitamin b12 is inadequate. The gut bacteria only produce vitamin b12 for their own purposes. It isn't transferred the the human host.

https://www.mja.com.au...

If you take vitamin B12 supplements, then you are eating meat in proxy. (cheating) lol
Debate Round No. 2
Stupidape

Pro

"Reply - This source of vitamin b12 is inadequate. The gut bacteria only produce vitamin b12 for their own purposes. It isn't transferred the the human host." Con

There are plenty of healthy vegans who do not take supplements. Yes, this is anecdotal evidence. Look at 30bananasaday if you want testimonial evidence. [5]. The study Con references mentions nothing of eating fruit and veggies in the raw and whole state. A diet of all french fries and soda is vegan. The impact is that there is no guarantee these vegans were eating any raw foods in the study Con provided.

"If you take vitamin B12 supplements, then you are eating meat in proxy. (cheating) lol" Con

Claim: B-12 supplements are vegan

Warrant:"Is B12 Vegan?

The vitamin B12 component in B12 supplements and fortified foods is made by bacteria and sourced from bacteria cultures; it is not taken from animal products." [6]

Logic, if bacteria produce the b-12 in both plants and animals, the manufacturers would skip the middle man, animals in this sense, and gather b-12 directly from bacteria.

Impact: b-12 is vegan, thus supplements are not cheating.

5. http://www.30bananasaday.com...
6. http://www.veganhealth.org...
Akhenaten

Con

The vitamin B12 suppliments are still made of bacteria. The bacteria are small animals. Thus, you are still eating meat. lol
Debate Round No. 3
Stupidape

Pro

Claim: Bacteria are not animals.

Warrant:

"Animal

Definition

noun, plural: animals

A living organism belonging to Kingdom Animalia that possess several characteristics that set them apart from other living things, such as:

(1) being eukaryotic (i.e. the cell contains a membrane-bound nucleus) and usually multicellular (unlike bacteria and most protists, an animal is composed of several cells performing specific functions) (
2) being heterotrophic (unlike plants and algae that are autotrophic, an animal depends on another organism for sustenance) and generally digesting food in an internal chamber (such as a digestive tract)
(3) lacking cell wall (unlike plants, algae and some fungi that possess cell walls)
(4) being generally motile, that is being able to move voluntarily
(5) embryos passing through a blastula stage
(6) possessing specialized sensory organs for recognizing and responding to stimuli in the environment " [1].

Definition for bacteria "Bacteria

Definition

noun, singular: bacterium

(Science: Microbiology)

Microscopic, single-celled organisms belonging to Kingdom Monera that possess a prokaryotic type of cell structure, which means their cells are noncompartmentalized, and their DNA (usually circular) can be found throughout the cytoplasm rather than within a membrane-bound nucleus. They reproduce by fission or by forming spores. They can practically live everywhere. They can inhabit all kinds of environment, such as in soil, acidic hot springs, radioactive waste, seawater, deep in the Earth's crust, in stratosphere, and even in the bodies of other organisms. " [2]

"Neither. Living things are classified into 5 kingdoms - animalia, plantae, fungi, protista, and monera. Bacteria belong to the kingdom monera. Bacteria cells are prokaryotic while all the other kingdoms contain eukaryotes."[3].

"Eukaryotic cells contain membrane-bound organelles, such as the nucleus, while prokaryotic cells do not. " [4].

Impact: Notice the difference between bacteria and animals. Be definition bacteria aren't animals. Animals cells have organelles and bacteria don't. Creative comeback Con, despite being false. Therefore consuming bacteria is vegan. B-12 supplements are vegan.

Links
1. http://www.biology-online.org...
2. http://www.biology-online.org...
3. http://www.answers.com...
4. http://www.diffen.com...
Akhenaten

Con

Bacteria are neither plant nor animal but have characteristics of both. Thus, if you are eating vitamin B12, then 50% of what you are eating is animal. 50% is good enough to win this debate, so I will accept victory on my behalf. Thank you ball boys, thank you linesmen! lol

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
Debate Round No. 4
Stupidape

Pro

The journal Con linked is from 1924. [1]. Pro sources are newer and therefore more accurate. Con doesn't seem to be able to make any real argument. Con's round 4 argument is that bacteria have animal characteristics so therefore eating bacteria is not vegan. Con is right in that bacteria have animal characteristics in the sense that bacteria are living, have cellular structure, and so forth. Yet, bacteria aren't animals. This is common knowledge and Pro has proved that bacteria aren't animals.

By eating a diet of only fruits and vegetables you are eating a lot of fruit and vegetables. Fruits and vegetables have lots of antioxidants, fiber, and phytonutrients [2] which have been proven to be healthy. At the same time foods with no antioxidants, fiber, nor phytonutrients like meat and dairy are excluded. Finally, fruits and vegetables lack the destructive substances found in meat and dairy like cholesterol, saturated fat, high amounts of fat, and animal protein that is detrimental to human health.

"Antioxidants are man-made or natural substances that may prevent or delay some types of cell damage. Diets high in vegetables and fruits, which are good sources of antioxidants, have been found to be healthy; however, research has not shown antioxidant supplements to be beneficial in preventing diseases." [3].

In conclusion Con offers no rebuttal thus far, only playing around with the idea that bacteria are animals. Meanwhile Pro shows the health benefits of the resolution. A diet of only whole fruits and vegetables with sufficient calorie intake is ideal for health. Vote Pro.

Links.

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
2. http://www.webmd.com...
3. https://nccih.nih.gov...
Akhenaten

Con

Now, here's a website worth having a look at. It shows the deception of the medical fraternity in how they deionize bacteria as being the cause of many human ailments and diseases.

http://textbookofbacteriology.net...

Note - All the pretty colours and size variations that they have used to show various bacteria types. But, I for one, am not deceived by this clever juxtaposition of size, shape and colour. All we are seeing here is the same bacteria with different colours added via clever photo-processing. Being an expert in photography and colour reproduction, I can see how the illusion has been manipulated for the gullible public.

Note - My opponents comments about my information being from 1924 is irrelevant, because scientists still believe that bacteria are 50% animal and 50% plant to this very day. Nothing has changed.

I suppose we should ask our vegetarian friend if he eats any seaweed or mushrooms, because they are both half animal and half plant as well. Note - I think he has already stated that he eats seaweed as part of his diet. Thus, my opponent doesn't know that he is already eating large amounts of animal protein without even knowing it! lol

http://museumvictoria.com.au...

Finally, my opponent has tried to deceive the voters. He has stated that "Yet, bacteria aren't animals. This is common knowledge and Pro has proved that bacteria aren't animals".
Bacteria contain many characteristics of animals such as DNA, RNA, plasma membrane, ribosomes, flagellum, plasmid and pilli. Note - Bacteria can move whereas plants are static. Thus, bacteria is closer to animal than it is to plant. Thus, if my opponent is eating either mushrooms or bacteria he is in fact partly eating protein in the form of vitamin B12.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
http://www.vibrancyuk.com...

Many people say that the only foods which contain vitamin B12 are animal-derived foods. This also is untrue. No foods naturally contain vitamin B12 - neither animal or plant foods. Vitamin B12 is a microbe - a bacteria - it is produced by microorganisms. Vitamin B12 is the only vitamin that contains a trace element - cobalt - which gives this vitamin its chemical name - cobalamin - which is at the centre of its molecular structure. Humans and all vertebrates require cobalt, although it is assimilated only in the form of vitamin B12.

1-0 to Akhey! Easy win! Do you have any more vegan fallacies that I can shoot down? lol
Posted by Akhenaten 1 year ago
Akhenaten
Did you sneak in some dairy with that smoothie?
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