The Instigator
Rational_Thinker9119
Pro (for)
Losing
8 Points
The Contender
ThePhilosophersDeduction
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

A disembodied afterlife would involve more downsides for the consciousness than biological life

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
ThePhilosophersDeduction
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/7/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,008 times Debate No: 20921
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (4)

 

Rational_Thinker9119

Pro

Context of the debate:

We will define the afterlife as:

A disembodied consciousness that continues to exist eternally after the body that hosted this consciousness meets death.

We will define death as:

Death - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death
Death is the permanent termination of the biological functions that sustain a living organism.

Death - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/death
a : a permanent cessation of all vital functions : the end of life

If points made don't fit the criteria above then they are not valid to this debate.

First round is for acceptance, good luck!
ThePhilosophersDeduction

Con

As the first round if for acceptance, I accept Rational_Thinker9119's challenge and will argue Neg on the resolution of: "A disembodied afterlife would involve more downsides for the consciousness than biological life"
Debate Round No. 1
Rational_Thinker9119

Pro

The consciousness would lose abilities it once had as part of a body:

1. Without a body there would be no reproductive organs, or any organs at all. This means no penis, no testicles, no vagina, no breasts, nothing. Without these biological functions working there can be no sexual reproduction, a consciousness without sex would surely be considered a downside. Why would this be a downside? Because there are nerves in you genitalia which give the feeling of pleasure just like being massaged. When this happens endorphins are released in the brain which give a feeling of happiness or comfort. A lack of happiness and comfort certainly would be a loss for the conscious experience.

2. Without a body there would be no taste buds. Taste buds contain the receptors for taste. They are located around the small structures on the upper surface of the tongue, soft palate, upper esophagus and epiglottis, which are called papillae.

Have you ever had a steak? The stuff is delicious, since your taste buds are responsible this and taste buds are a biological factor, then this sensation logically cannot be experienced in a disembodied afterlife.

3. Blood flows to regions in the brain involved in dopamine release when people listen to music, which is the reason people enjoy it. So logically without dopamine release, enjoyment of music would not take place. Have you ever enjoyed a great album? You won't anymore in a disembodied afterlife.

There is no evidence that sex, tasting great food, and enjoying music can take place after death to a disembodied consciousness, therefore there are 3 downsides I have mentioned in the first round.

What evidence is there that there are upsides to a disembodied afterlife?

None that I can name, but I'll leave it up to my opponent to try and present a case.

Conclusion:

Unless my opponent can discredit my 3 assertions (which as based on facts regarding the biological processes which fuel certain things we enjoy), and replace them with 3 assertions which are based on facts which credit the notion that a disembodied afterlife wouldn't involve more downsides than biological life, then I have the upper hand in this debate.

Sources:

http://goaskalice.columbia.edu...
http://kidshealth.org...
http://news.discovery.com...
ThePhilosophersDeduction

Con

ThePhilosophersDeduction forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Rational_Thinker9119

Pro

Rebutting my opponent's arguments:

My opponent forfeited this round so there was nothing to rebutt

Continuing my case:

Roller coasters:

"
During a roller coaster ride, your body is pushed, pulled, twisted, turned and even left weightless for a brief time. All of this is accomplished as the forces generated by the coaster interact with gravity"

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

grav·i·ty/ˈgravitē/


Noun:

    1. The force that attracts a body toward the center of the earth, or toward any other physical body having mass. For most purposes Newton's...

    1. The degree of intensity of this, measured by acceleration.
Synonyms:
seriousness - weight - gravitation - solemnity

More info »Wikipedia - Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster





Spirits are defined as non physical:

Definition for spirit - Oxford Dictionaries Online (World English)


oxforddictionaries.com/definition/spirit

1the non-physical part of a person which is the seat of emotions and character

http://oxforddictionaries.com...

So it logically follows that unless you are physical (biological life) then you cannot feel the effects of "flying" or being weightless because gravity is responsible for this and gravity only interects with physical things that have mass and a disembodied afterlife (spirit) is defined as non physical.

Roller coasters and the effects of flying feel good and are a rush to many people, and there is no evidence that has been presented that proves this is possible without gravity interacting with something physical, which of course cancells out a spirit or disembodied afterlife.

Conclusion:


I have provided a solid case in regards to a disembodied afterlife involving more downsides for the consciousness than biological life. My opponent has presented no case.

ThePhilosophersDeduction

Con

ThePhilosophersDeduction forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Rational_Thinker9119

Pro

I'll forfiet this round and let my opponent try and make a come back, if he has put this debate on the shelf then, oh well :)
ThePhilosophersDeduction

Con

I apologize for being absent during the last two rounds of this debate. I had experienced a death in the family and simply did not have time, nor patience to debate on this topic. I also thank Pro for forfeiting Round 4. However, I am back and will refute Pros arguments and present my own. Again, I apologize for not giving the Pro the chance to answer my arguments, but I will not present too many, and they will not be a large voting issue, as the voting issue in this debate is whether or not I can take Pros arguments and refute them. Essentially, but refuting his points a draw will be cast, which is why I will present a few arguments myself, and the vote will be based on the quality of the arguments themselves, not how they are answered. Pro tries to claim I will need to replace his arguments with upsides, whereas instead, if his are refuted, I will only need one argument to prove the resolution wrong.

Now I will begin with a quick road map of what I will be going over.

On Case:
1. The absence of reproductive organs is a good thing.
a. No sexual harassment can occur.
b. STDs will be unable to spread.

2. The absence of taste buds is a good thing.
a. There will be no bad tastes if there are no taste-buds.
b. Taste-buds do not serve any purpose except to, well, taste.

3. The absence of music is a good thing.
a. Bad tastes in music can lead to the end in relationships.
b. There are too many explicit ideas in music.

4. The absence of roller coaster is a good thing.
a. The death rate on roller coasters was overlooked.

Off Case:
1. Spelling and Grammar are voting issues.
a. Though not large ones, Spelling and Grammar are still voting issues.

Con Case:
1. Freedom to manifest yourself without the boundaries of time and space.

On Case:

1. The absence of reproductive organs is a good thing.

a. No sexual harassment can occur.

It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person's sex. Harassment can include "sexual harassment" or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature. Sexual harassment is a misfortune that anyone can endure. Sexual harassment is a problem, and is most definitely not an upside to actual life, but with the absence of a body in total, it will not be able to occur, so, it is, in fact an upside to a disembodied afterlife. [eeoc.gov]

b. STDs will be unable to spread.

Simply enough, if we do not have sexual organs, as stated above, we are unable to have sex, as Pro states. However, this is a good thing, because though it may feel good for a short amount of time and please us, there are extreme risks when having sex. One of them being that STDs are able to spread. STDs, like all other relatively serious diseases require medication and trips to the medical office to get rid of. It is a good thing to eliminate theses diseases because simply enough, we don't want them. This too, is an advantage to a disembodied afterlife. [cdc.gov/std]

2. The absence of taste buds is a good thing.

a. There will be no bad tastes if there are no taste-buds.

Have you ever had something taste so awful that you immediately spit it out but could not get the taste out for days? Taste buds are receptors in your mouth that allow you to taste such vile things. And although you may not be able to taste the good things in life, you will also never have the risk of tasting anything awful. All you want to do for those long days is cut off your tongue or take away all sense of taste. Even when you are sick you taste bile in your mouth. When you throw up you are tasting stomach acids now lining your mouth, and it's one of the most awful tastes you can imagine. Not being able to taste these vile tastes is an upside to no having taste buds in a disembodied afterlife. [library.thinkquest.org]

b. Taste-buds do not serve any purpose except to, well, taste.

In the same article that Pro provides in his own case, it says nothing about taste buds serving any other purpose than to taste. Unlike other receptors in out body that can do multiple beneficial things, taste buds are purely used to taste food. This includes the vile tastes I explained above. They do not warn us of predators, they do not kepp us warm, they are strictly there for us to taste. [kidshealth.org]

3. The absence of music is a good thing.

a. Bad tastes in music can lead to the end in relationships.

"Ever wondered why a relationship may have ended on the wrong note?
The answer could be quite simple: it's because of your taste in music.
According to a new study music actually predicts sexual attraction. The most recent issue of Psychology of Music takes a close look at the connection between identity, music and what makes people 'click'." We can see that sometimes, even music, what we listen to almost daily, and love, can lead to our own demise. Essentially, what my point is, is that music, though nice to listen to, can also be a downside, as it can ruin our relationships. Not only with friends and significant others, but families as well. All relationships can suffer due to our music preferences. Though extreme, the study in the source I've cited says that it has been scientifically tested, and is valid. [dailymail.co.uk]

b. There are too many explicit ideas in music.

Music has always had the power to strike fear into parents' hearts, which is why it is so attractive to young people. This hasn't changed since the days when the Beatles shocked the world. What has changed is that popular music lyrics have become much more explicit. If we look into the history of music, we can see that this trend of explicit music lyrics will never come to an end and this will always be a problem in the living society. However, without music, in a disembodied life after death, there may be no music, but that is also one less factor in rebellion against superiors. No matter what kind of life is after death, there is bound to be a leader. And this explicit music would only cause rebellion. [media-awareness.ca]

4. The absence of roller coaster is a good thing.

a. The death, injury, and health rates on roller coasters were overlooked.

A German study of 37 men and 18 women volunteers -- average age 28 -- found that some people who rode a roller coaster had an increased heart rate that could cause arrhythmias -- an irregular heart beat -- in some individuals. Roller coasters, while they may be fun, are a health risk. And who's to say that they won't break down leaving people hanging upside down, or break and let these people die. If you die because of a roller coaster, is it really a disadvantage for you not to be able to go on that roller coaster again? Roller coasters are fear invoking, deadly, and can cause multiple health related issues, if anything, they are a disadvantage to regular life.

Off Case:

1. Spelling and Grammar are voting issues.

a. Though not large ones, Spelling and Grammar are still voting issues.

Spelling and grammar should be valued in any debate because simply enough, in the real world when debating future laws, a plan would get rejected immediately if there was a spelling or grammatical error. Now, though this obviously could not be debated professionally because no one would have evidence as to the afterlife, it is still a voting issue in today's mock debate.

For a few examples of specific spelling and grammatical mistakes that the Pro makes are as follows:

In Round 3 Pro misspells "interacts" to read "interects."
Also, in Round 4, Pro misspells "forfeit" to read "forfiet."

Con Case:

1. Freedom to manifest yourself without the boundaries of time and space.

a.

I would like to point out that living a disembodied life after death would allow us to stretch beyond all time and space, assuming we can make this assumption, considering this entire debate is based on an assumption itself.

I turn it over to the voters, as I have run out of characters.

For all of these reasons, vote Con.
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by royalpaladin 5 years ago
royalpaladin
You guys are not supposed to be doing stuff like this (Philospher tried to do this on my debate with bobmiltch as well). It is actually a bannable offense.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
OMG milch... con you are lucky he trolled last moment
Posted by ThePhilosophersDeduction 5 years ago
ThePhilosophersDeduction
Oh, and thank you Ratinoal_Thinker for a wonderfully thought out debate. I'm sorry I missed those round. If I could have voted it would have gone to you.
Posted by ThePhilosophersDeduction 5 years ago
ThePhilosophersDeduction
I apologize for those that know me voting on this. I seriously won't let that happen in any other debate rounds.
Posted by Rational_Thinker9119 5 years ago
Rational_Thinker9119
If anybody reads the last vote, this debate ended pretty unfairly. I wonder if there is a way to reverse decisions on debate records but if not, oh well :)
Posted by prettymuchpro 5 years ago
prettymuchpro
i am in no way a false account. I do, however know the Con, therefore, I voted for him. I did not, however, give him all the points. Trust my in that I would not vote for him if I thought I would be the deciding factor.
Posted by Rational_Thinker9119 5 years ago
Rational_Thinker9119
How would trying to disprove the afterlife, be a case that a disembodied afterlife would involve more upsides for the consciousness than biological life?..

The debate is operating under the assumption that there is a disembodied afterlife for the sake of discussion, we would be debating about whether this disembodied afterlife would have more benefits or less benefits than biological life.
Posted by Cobo 5 years ago
Cobo
Five bucks the first claim of the con is to disprove the afterlife.
If not then this might be a good debate
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by bobmiltch 5 years ago
bobmiltch
Rational_Thinker9119ThePhilosophersDeductionTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Last minute trolling y'all. Sorry, but I also know Con, and a few of us just made accounts, so expect a landslide for him.
Vote Placed by Double_R 5 years ago
Double_R
Rational_Thinker9119ThePhilosophersDeductionTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter to Prettymuchpro, who joined this site 58 minutes ago and completed 3 1 round debates so that he could vote. I suspect he is a multi account, and since this is his only vote so far which is completely unjustified, I suspect that he is another account of Cons. Additional 2 points given to Pro for the forfeit.
Vote Placed by prettymuchpro 5 years ago
prettymuchpro
Rational_Thinker9119ThePhilosophersDeductionTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Though Con presented arguments at the end, it was all he could do, but after Con forfeited the round, Pro continued to present arguments. Thus, it was fair for Con to give an argument.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Rational_Thinker9119ThePhilosophersDeductionTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for FF and presenting arguments last round ---> unfair.