The Instigator
Black-Jesus
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
Foodiesoul
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

A god exists

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Black-Jesus
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 7/20/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 341 times Debate No: 93924
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

Black-Jesus

Pro

Four Rounds:
1st- Acceptence/Opening statements
2nd- Opening arguments
3rd- Rebuttals/More arguments
4th- More rebuttals/Closing statements

I will be arguing more specifically for the existence of the Christian God, but if I convince the existence of any god, then my role will be fulfilled.

Definition(s):
God (n) - a supernatural and intelligent force that designed the existing universe and/or the life within it and now exercises a level of power over it's creation.

I wish my opponent good luck.
Foodiesoul

Con

I accept this debate and I wish my opponent good luck as well.

If a god truly did exist, then people would actually be able to see that god in person and not just see that god as a divine being in the sky.
Debate Round No. 1
Black-Jesus

Pro

Whether or not God can be seen is irrelevant because no god has ever claimed to be seen as most gods are known to existence outside this universe or realm if you will. However, he can be seen in certain circumstances…

Near-Death Experiences
Perhaps some of the most convincing arguments for the existence of God are the many accounts of dying and being held witness to the life that comes after death. In fact, these accounts can often turn those that do not believe in God into believers, which is part of the origin of the adage, there are no atheists in foxholes. According to a Gallup poll conducted in 1992, 13 million American have experienced this phenomenon when the population was 260 million, meaning about 5% of American have had similar experiences.(1)

According to IANDS (International Association for Near-Death Studies), one or two of more than fifteen familiar elements always occur in a NDE (Near-Death Experience), including: an outer body experience, a sense of movement through darkness or a tunnel, intense emotion, heightened senses, experiencing a bright light or great darkness, perceiving a spiritual realm, encounters with deceased loved ones, spiritual beings and/or religious figures, knowledge of secrets of the universe, a revelation about life, a sense of connection or interconnectivity, a border of no return, a sense of powers of divination and messages regarding life’s purpose.(2) Many of the symptoms of these experiences indicate the existence of a soul or divine intervention.

There are seventeen astonishing cases described by IANDS to be found in the sources section.

The Origin of Everything and the Kalam Cosmological Argument
We live in a universe with some set, and immutable certainties called laws of logic. Perhaps the most important of all laws of logic is the concept of cause and effect, which states that everything that happens must have a cause. There must be a chain of cause and effect that leads us straight across all space and time. So to answer the question regarding the cause of the universe’s existence, we must follow this chain to the very beginning. That is where Kalam’s Cosmological Argument comes in.

It goes like this:
1. Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence.
2. The universe has a beginning of its existence.
3. The universe has a cause of its existence.
4. If the universe has a cause of its existence then that cause must be an uncaused cause i.e God.
Therefore:
5. God exists.(3)

Fine Tuning
Speaking of the many precise laws and immutable rules of the universe, if any of them are changed, even if ever so slightly, the entire human life would be wiped from existence. That is, the laws of the universe are so finely tuned and precise as to allow for the existence of life, and they have never been known to change, that they are simply too improbable to have happened randomly. That is, the precision of these laws imply an intelligence behind them instead of the random happenstance of a nonintelligent event.





Sources:
(1): http://www.nderf.org...
(2): http://iands.org...
More NDE experiences: http://iands.org...
(3): http://www.philosophyofreligion.info...
Foodiesoul

Con

For the most part, God, in this case the Christian God, claims to love everyone and continuously make the world a loving and merciful place. However, even with all these religious claims such as "God makes miracles" and "God is good," the world is full of terrible evil and many harmless, innocent people suffer because of all this terrible evil. If you count all of the horrifying, violent, and evil events throughout history, you would probably be richer than Bill Gates. That's how much evil this world is full of.

Life is a constant death course and many people are suicidal because of all the evil that happens in the world. If a good and loving god truly did exist, then the world would be more peaceful instead of being so full of chaos and violence.

Another huge reason why a god doesn't exist is because of prayer. The chances of prayer actually working and being fully effective are like 0.0000001%-0.0000003%. Of course, not all prayers have good intentions but most prayers usually do.

If God really did exist, then prayer healing would actually work on patients with deadly illnesses and prayer would be more effective instead of just seeming like a bunch of nonsensical poems.
Debate Round No. 2
Black-Jesus

Pro

Rebuttals

First two paragraphs

In my opponent’s first argument, he purports that, the world being rife of evil and tribulation, this is proof of the absence of a just and loving God. However, despite me saying that I intend to focus on proving the Christian God, this does not mean that I will prove only the Christian God and none other. I am attempting to prove any God, and am making no statement as to the nature of such God, just the existence. So just proving that there is not just God does nothing to prove there is no God at all.

At any rate, the existence of evil is not a disproof of a well-meaning, Christian God. Said God has awarded the human race with free will, which, while allowing for evil to exist, is a preferable existence to that of meaningless obedience to the will of another.


Next two paragraphs

Again, the nonexistence of a God who answers prayer is not indicative of the nonexistence of a God who does not.



No Further Arguments

No Source(s)

Foodiesoul

Con

My opponent said, "I am attempting to prove any God, and am making no statement as to the nature of such God, just the existence." In the very first round, my opponent said, "I will be arguing more specifically for the existence of the Christian God..." This made me think that this debate was focusing only on the Christian God, not any god.

Mythological Gods and Biblical Gods
Mythological gods are deities in ancient stories that have supernatural gifts and powers. Every mythological god is associated with the things that highlight their importance and their special gifts. For example, Aphrodite is the Greek goddess of love and beauty. Because of this, she can entice a wide range of people, depending on which version of her story is told. Thor is the Norse god of thunder and so, because of this, he can conjure up thunder and adjust its severity.

Biblical gods are deities in holy books and documents that are very divine and extraordinary compared to regular organisms, including human beings.

Every holy book is a mythological collection of inaccurate texts. The reason for this is because it is naturally impossible for someone to go all the way up to the afterlife and then talk to deities and record what they were saying and put all of it inside a book. Once you go up to the afterlife, you're dead. Dead people don't crawl back from their graves to distribute holy documents across the land.

Also, it is impossible for someone to actually listen to what any deity is saying because deities are all the way up in the sky while people are all the way down on the ground. Talking to a deity is like talking to a tree. There's just no actual conversation being exchanged or produced.

Sources
http://www.differencebetween.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Debate Round No. 3
Black-Jesus

Pro

Rebuttals for rebuttals
The full quote that my opponent used is "I will be arguing more specifically for the existence of the Christian God, but if I convince the existence of any god, then my role will be fulfilled." That is, I intend for my arguments to focus on a Christians God, but not exclusively.

Rebuttals
Mythological Gods and Biblical Gods
I'm not sure what argument my opponent is going for in the two following paragraphs.

However, in the third and fourth paragraphs, my opponent states: "Every holy book is a mythological collection of inaccurate texts. The reason for this is because it is naturally impossible for someone to go all the way up to the afterlife and then talk to deities and record what they were saying and put all of it inside a book." then "it is impossible for someone to actually listen to what any deity is saying because deities are all the way up in the sky while people are all the way down on the ground."

These are very childish ways to look at the relationship between god and man. In most religions, religious texts originate from either a time when gods walked among men or when men indeed did indeed walk among the land of the gods. In the Old Testament of Christianity, there is said to be communication from God, who is omnipotent and therefore perfectly capable of such things, which was then recorded. In the New Testament, God walked among man after he was born from an immaculate conception to a mortal woman and his teachings were recorded by his followers.

Closing Statement
The burden of proof being on me, I provided three very solid proofs for the existence of a god. As of now, my opponent has failed to refute my main arguments and has, in turn, provided a handful of flimsy arguments himself that I feel that I have thoroughly refuted. Vote PRO.

No Source(s)
Foodiesoul

Con

Rebuttals
My opponent says, "In the Old Testament of Christianity, there is said to be communication from God, who is omnipotent and therefore perfectly capable of such things, which was then recorded. In the New Testament, God walked among man after he was born from an immaculate conception to a mortal woman and his teachings were recorded by his followers."

However, my opponent does not provide any proof or solid arguments that God once walked among men, which technically makes his closing argument kind of flimsy and inadequate.

Closing Statement
My opponent claims that this debate was meant to argue for the existence of any god. However, my opponent only focuses on the Christian god and not any god, which makes this debate very misleading. Because of this, my opponent's arguments are all technically inadequate as they only argue for one type of god which is the Christian god and do not provide arguments that argue for the existence of any god. Therefore, my opponent's arguments are also flimsy as they technically do not fit with the title of this debate. On the other hand, I argued for the existence of any god by talking about multiple types of gods and not just one god. Vote con.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by SNP1 4 months ago
SNP1
Is it me or is Pro's round 2 in Greek characters?

No idea what characters Conservatism is seeing, but I am seeing Greek.
Posted by Black-Jesus 4 months ago
Black-Jesus
No, someone else on another debate I'm having had that same complaint
Posted by Conservatism 4 months ago
Conservatism
Am I the only one seeing the weird language the pro posted in the second round?
Posted by maryumalam123 4 months ago
maryumalam123
i think that con should have started a better opening. so far pro is winning
Posted by maryumalam123 4 months ago
maryumalam123
i think that con should have started a better opening. so far pro is winning
Posted by vi_spex 4 months ago
vi_spex
i wrote this
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by imabench 4 months ago
imabench
Black-JesusFoodiesoul
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: con flat out dropped many of the arguments pro first made regarding near-death experiences and the KSA, and only offered mediocre arguments for his own case that pro negated. Con seemingly didnt even know what was even being debated, and his arguments reflected that.