The Instigator
kasmic
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
kbub
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points

A picture is worth 10,000 words

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
kbub
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/17/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,281 times Debate No: 63419
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

kasmic

Con

Resolve: A picture is worth 10,000 words

round one for pro is acceptance and opening argument
Round two is for rebuttals and arguments
Round three is for rebuttals and closing statements.(No new arguments.)

Good Luck!
kbub

Pro

I accept. Accidentally. Oh well, this debate looks like a lot of fun! Thanks to my opponent for the invite.

---

I was once in an art class, and was asked to respond to a picture with 10,000 words. I thought to myself: "Can a picture be worth 10,000 words?" I answered myself with a resounding "yes." Some pictures are worth writing about, and some pictures are worth writing _a lot_ about--even 10,000 words.

Of course, I don't mean to imply that there is some sort of price tag on pictures that says "10,000 words." That would be silly. If that were true, my opponent and I would both be cheating by having our pictures placed in our rounds.

Instead, I only mean that some pictures are worth writing 10,000 words about. Authors write entire books on paintings. I could provide many examples, but to save space here is one: http://www.barnesandnoble.com...

Another reason why pictures can be worth 10,000 words is that they can be interpreted multiple ways. Unlike this debate, for example, in which we use words that have relatively few possible interpretations, pictures often give a less straightforward narrative. A picture interacts with people in many different ways, sometimes in ways that take 10,000 words to imitate decently.

Furthermore, have you ever tried to copy a painting through words only? That is, being given a description of a painting an trying to copy it? It is quite difficult, even with complex descriptions, which means that there is more information in a painting than a couple of words can express. Sometimes, it would take 10,000 words to even hope to imitate it.

My opponent may say that a painting does not equal 10,000 words, that'll they are more than 10,000 or less than 10,000. But that's not the point of the debate, or the saying. The point is that a picture is _worth_ a thousand words; not that it is the same thing as 10,000 words.

I have clearly shown that there exists a picture(s) that is worth 10,000 words. Needless to say, I finished my report ;)
Debate Round No. 1
kasmic

Con

Very well written argument Kbub… thank you for accepting this debate and good luck! I admit that this kind of debate is outside my comfort zone, but I thought it might be fun.(I got tired of more serious debates.)

Pro case point by point with my rebuttals:

1:”that some pictures are worth writing 10,000 words about.”

This argument by pro merely goes to show words value over paintings. Why write 10,000 words about a painting if the painting itself is worth 10,000 words. Would that not make writing about it redundant?

2: “Another reason why pictures can be worth 10,000 words is that they can be interpreted multiple ways.”

What pro says of paintings here is true. Likewise with words, how often are poems, books, religious works interpreted in many different ways.

3: (paintings)” Sometimes, it would take 10,000 words to even hope to imitate it.”

I am not convinced that a painting would require 10,000 words to imitate

Counter arguments:

To any and all who believe a picture to be worth 10,000 words, I invite you to read the great works of Shakespeare. I invite you to read the great poems of Robert Frost…. To read Hemingway, Mark Twain, Jane Austin, Edgar Allen Poe… and so many others. I invite you to read the Koran, the Torah, and the New Testament. Really read the Lords prayer. I echo the words of Charles Osgood, the “word merchant” who said that “compared to the spoken word, a picture is a pitiful thing, indeed.”(1)

With that I send it back to pro!

(1)http://www.ziglar.com...;



kbub

Pro

Thanks kasmic!

--

Extra-topical:

Last round, all of Con's arguments played on the idea that the phrase "A picture is worth 10,000 words" means that there is some "exchange rate" of words-to-pictures that equals exactly 10,000.

However, as I've already explained, the phrase doesn't mean that paintings have a price tag labeled "10,000 words." That idea is ridiculous, and it is not at all what the idiom "A picture is worth 10,000 words" means.

The phrase "One picture is worth 10,000 words" actually was used to mean the same thing as a plethora of similar phrases, including "One look is worth a thousand words" (http://tinyurl.com...), or "Use a picture. It's worth a thousand words" (http://tinyurl.com...), or "A picture is worth a thousand words" (http://tinyurl.com...).

According to the idiom dictionary (The Phrase Finder), the phrase means: "A picture tells a story just as well as a large amount of descriptive text." (http://tinyurl.com...).

It obviously does not mean: "the exchange rate between a picture and word is 10,000 to 1."

In order to make this debate fair and educational, we must debate using the actual meaning of the phrase, not a someone's private definition. Because Con provided no other definition, we should therefore default to the idiom dictionary's definition.

--

Reasons for a Pro win:

#1 Worth writing 10,000 words:

Con completely misunderstood my claim by saying that the writing process involved in making words means that the painting was worth over 10,000 words.

1) That doesn't make any sense, because words don't appear out of nowhere. Even if they were some price tag, I still win that the painting was worth creating 10,000 words.

2) But, my opponent misunderstood my claim. I was saying my writing 10,000 non-redundant words about the painting _proves_ that a picture can express a story that can fill 10,000 words of text to explain (which follows the real definition). Either way, Pro wins.

#2 Paintings can be interpreted multiple ways. Pro claims that some poetry can do that too, but that is irrelevant. The topic does NOT specify all paintings (like a white wall), and it likewise does NOT specify all words. Some words are worth 1,000 words, after all.

I think of myself as a decent writer, my best works of poetry cannot be interpreted in so many ways as some of the great artists and photographers.

Jonathan Good calculated that there have been 3.5 trillion photos taken in 200 years. (http://tinyurl.com...). Of these 3.5 T pictures, obviously at least one of them "tells a story just as well as a large amount of descriptive text."

#3 It takes 10,000 words to imitate a painting:

Obviously, the number 10,000 isn't important, but I'll play Con's game. Here is a picture that took 285,000 brushstrokes to create. With one word for placement, one word for color, and another word for length (unlikely), it would take about 900,000 words, which means I would win the debate 90x over.

Also, the example demonstrates the large amount of info in a painting.

New:

#4 The experts agree. Carnegie-Melon researchers found that diagrams are sometimes worth 10,000 words (http://tinyurl.com...).

Other researchers wrote: "Done correctly, data visualization can facilitate...Impact. "Use a picture. It's worth a thousand words." Data visualization is a powerful way to communicate information, relationships, and even the stories present in data." (tinyurl.com/q45jr9x)

#5 History agrees: (http://tinyurl.com...)

Rebuttal:

Con offers one rebuttal: That there are many great texts worth more than a painting. This point is irrelevant for two reasons that I've already discussed, and a third:
1) Because the topic isn't about every 10,000 words, just as we are not talking about every painting.
2) The idiom doesn't mean that there is an exchange rate of words-to-paintings.
3) Contradiction: Are pictures worth more (#1) or less than 10,000?

Clearly, dear reader, you can disregard Con's counterargument.

--

For all these reasons, please vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 2
kasmic

Con

Well argued, thanks for the debate. I concede. Vote Pro.
kbub

Pro

Thanks to my opponent for the fun debate! I hope we can do it again sometime, kosmic.

Thanks also to you, dear reader, for taking the time to look through this debate. My opponent of course conceded, so please vote Pro.

See you around!
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by kbub 2 years ago
kbub
Looks like I left out the link to the 280,000 stroke painting. So you can reference it, here it is: http://twistedsifter.com...

To make it fair, just let me know if you want me to write it in my next round, so I'm not skipping the 4,000 word limit.
Posted by kbub 2 years ago
kbub
Looks like pictures are worth the 25 you just offered, IndianaFrank ;)
Posted by IndianaFrank 2 years ago
IndianaFrank
Pictures are not worth any words at all. A picture is 1/100th of a second and doesn't give the full inside story of what's happening.
Posted by kasmic 2 years ago
kasmic
either way...
Posted by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
I always thought it was worth 1,000 words, not 10,000.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
kasmickbubTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: CONcedes. Get it?
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
kasmickbubTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession (not a forfeit as reported on the forum... however conduct remains only a single point).
Vote Placed by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
kasmickbubTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: I thought about accepting this debate as well. It's not exactly hard to argue this as pro. Con, concedes.