The Instigator
Farooq
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
mdb2290
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

A political candidate's demographic should not affect the way one votes.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/4/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 938 times Debate No: 1352
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (5)

 

Farooq

Pro

This US election is an exciting one, with the Democrats' chosen heir being challenged and the GOP completly divided amongst a few candidates. But as I;ve watching events unfold on the news I've been seeing the journalists paying a lot of attention the candidates demogrpahics.

Is the United States ready for a woman president? How will Romney's Mormonism play along with the GOP's base? Who would have believed a black man (though Obama is actually just as white as he is black) would ever run for the presidency? Is McCain too old? Is Huckabee being a Baptist helping him? Is America due for its 2nd Catholic prez? Do we really want another man in charge?These and other annyoing questions the press seen intent on fauning over.

But why? Isn't the point of the Americans political deliberations to choose a leadership candidate that has good policy voters agree with, honour, effective leadership skills or other practical things? Does it really matter if what colour their skin is or their age, so long as they are effective leaders that connote the will of the people? I look forward to a rebuttal from my opponent.
mdb2290

Con

Thanks Faroog for posting this interesting debate topic. Seems slanted and I generally agree with you (Go Romney!), but the challenge may be fun.

Unfortunately you did not make any points in your introductory argument, and did not define any of your terms. So I will begin by defining your terms, followed by my main arguments, and I'll end with refutations of the props potential arguments.

Dem-o-graph-ic: The study of, or information pertaining to the age, income, religion, race, sex, background, occupation, and belief systems that belong/belonged to an individual or group of individuals.
(I think the rest is clear)

ARGUMENTS:
1.) Demographics affect values that may be crucial as issues develop in the future.
a-If a candidate may have an advantage b/c of past experience (race, gender, occupation) it is acceptable to vote for them on that basis. Ex: If you believe Obama's status as a "black" American will give him a greater perspective of the problems/plights facing A. Americans, it is fair to vote for him on that basis. Ex2:If you believe that Clinton's womanity (lol) gives her an advantage...Ex3:If you believe that Romney's religion that is extremely famiy-based, gives him similar values to yourself...
b-The same goes for the inverse; if a candidate shows a disadvantage, you don't have to vote for them. In the end, you're voting for the person you believe to have your interests in mind, and the person whose poicies are closest to your own.

2.) What's not unconstitutional is constitutional.
a-Would it be constitutional (if it was possible)to take away the ability to form bias? Obviously not, because that is a freedom we hold, therefore it's constitutional.
b-It's true occasionally bias is formed as a result of bigotted beliefs, racism, and sexism. This does not mean, however, that ALL demographical info. should not be heeded.Ex: If a Satanist were to run for President, who believed in child sacrifice (doesn't necessarily perform them) this shows a definite lapse in judgement, no matter his stance on primary political issues. It shows a differing belief system that is too important to ignore, and may affect his future decisions, say...education reforms.

3.) We have the right to vote according to our own belief; the choice is ours and the criteria can be whatever we choose. (see 1a)
a-If there are 2 candidate's with the same political viewpoints, but one happens to share your same religion, it is fair to vote for that candidate on that basis, b/c that clearly shows a closer relationship to your personal ideals.

4.) If you truly believe demographics may affect the later decisions of a potential president why should you vote for them?
a-This one's simple, if you believe McCain's age, Romney's religion, Clinton's sex, or Obama's race will hamper their decision-making you are not obligated to vote for them. We are the judge's of the best candidate, and although we should be logical and have genuine justification for our decisions it is not required, and no one has the right to say what you should and should not take into consideration when choosing the best political candidate for you who will as Faroog says, be an "effective leaders" and best connote your will.

POTENTIAL REBUTTALS:
-You may say that the only beliefs that matter are those that pertain to current political talking points, or current national predicaments. To this I respond that, if a candidate share's the same belief as you, but does not live by the same standard, this can be reason to withhold a vote. Ex: If Bill Clinton were to preach morality, and family values during his run, after we had all found out he had committed adultery this would clearly show contradictions that would make him less viable for my vote. Ex 2: If I was a Mormon (I am) who not only agreed with Mitt Romney on current political issues, but also saw an advantage in his previous occupations b/c they show potential leadership skills and saw how his beliefs promote all that I stand for is it wrong to take this demographical info.?

-You may bring up(as you have), the current Presidential race.
a-I agree that many citizens make decisions that show ignorance, bigotry, etc...But taking some demographics into account, with proper knowledge and with the absence of unfair bigotry, racim, sexism, age, can actually be beneficial.

Thus I believe I have proved that in some cases a candidate's demographic should affect the way one vote's.

BTW-Whew! That was hard. My first debate, you know? Good practice though. I noticed you're Canadian, do all Canadians take such an interest in U.S. politics? I look forward to your response! Good luck.
Debate Round No. 1
Farooq

Pro

Farooq forfeited this round.
mdb2290

Con

We'll make this a two-rounder. Until you refute, my points all still stand. Good luck, and I look forward to reading your arguments.
Debate Round No. 2
Farooq

Pro

Farooq forfeited this round.
mdb2290

Con

While you have missed the debate deadline twice, I will still take your arguments into account (readers-It's in the comment area).

" I will concur with your definition of demographic, except in the last cases of general belief system (for this is exactly what I'm trying to assert, that they should take issues and beliefs into account) and profession (obviously a successful buinessnman or lawyer is more palatable than an uneducated farmer or paralegal)."

-It is true you did not clearly define what you believed was the meaning of demographics, or what you intended to debate it as, and it is a bit irresponsible to come into the third round of play and alter the true meaning of demographics for your purpose. The fact is that occupation, and beliefs (as in beliefs outside of the political realm) are parts of demography. If you specifically meant religion, race, and sex you should have made this known in one of the 3 rounds of debate. Demography comes from the Greek roots demo, which refers to people, and graph-which refers to the measure of, or study of. So it is clear that it is the study of people, and beliefs should be taken into account, because the very definition includes beliefs (whether political, cultural, or social). Also, as I stated before beliefs offer specific insight into the judgment of a person.

"As for your arguments involving the example of the Satanist that supports child sacrifice"…" you seem to dissenting from the question at hand, for you fail to realise that as a proponent of child sacrifice he or she is suggesting a potential policy that could effect educational reforms, a legitimate political issue."…" If a person of said religion however believed in pushing their ecclesiastical values on the citizenry than one should become wary of the way their believes are effecting policy."

-As I've stated before, (may not have been clear to you) "this shows a definite lapse in judgment, no matter his stance on primary political issues. It shows a differing belief system that is too important to ignore…". What I meant is, although you may agree with the candidate on current national policies (the truth is only a few are talked about these days: Iraq, Immigration, etc.)if he/she has beliefs that are questionable in their "private" lives, and they are of concern to you, you have the right to withhold your vote. Whether they are pushing their beliefs on the public or not, their beliefs should be examined. We can't allow hypocrisy and poor judgment in the White House, because the truth is that candidates will accentuate and obscure their beliefs in order to propel themselves forward toward election. (btw-education reforms was a joke)

"…if an Independent LDSer in North Dakota looks at Romney as sees the opportunity to put a brother of the faith in the White House and casts her ballot for this reason, that is immoral."

-If the North Dakota "LDSer" believed that putting a "brother of the faith" in the WH would be beneficial to the U.S. in any way, it would not be immoral. If a voter thought Romney has "really nice hair" it is fine for that person to vote accordingly, because each voter sets their own standards for a president. We vote based on our perceptions of people, and it is impossible to cast a vote and totally disregard demographics. All views, of any kind are formed on bias; our experiences and situations determine our beliefs, and seeing as we cannot experience everything we have bias. Besides, a big part of qualifications for presidency, is the past actions (personal life too), personal beliefs, etc…We don't just vote on issues, because is important to see what type of person the candidate is outside of his political life.

…"If however they don't do their research and vote instead for Obama, they have just negated their intention for false hopes, thus leading to their own losses."

-I will only negate this, because it sums up your position, and is your strongest argument. There is no way to determine whether Obama, or Clinton will be more effective in promoting the success of inner-city African Americans (their views don't vary that greatly on many of the related issues), but if a voter recognizes that Obama maybe better equipped to handle this problem as an African American, "all's fair"…Or if a candidate comes from an inner-city background, it's fair to assume.

Reason's you should vote neg:
-I refuted every point brought forward by my opponent.

-I presented arguments within the time constraints.

-My opponent did not thoroughly address points and examples:
1a, 1b, 2b, 3a, &4 (reread), and pre-rebuttals.

-I believe I presented a strong case considering the topic, and the fact that I disagree with every argument I presented.

Please don't vote based on your opinions, vote on strength of presentation, arguments, and overall ability. I urge the readers to vote neg (I will, lol).

Thanks Farooq. It's been a pleasure, and I enjoyed reading your previous debates.

-MDB
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Farooq 9 years ago
Farooq
K, I was about to paste but a minute too late! Read backwards.
Posted by Farooq 9 years ago
Farooq
One of the trickier arguments to address on this issue is that of the notion that candidates from a certain demographic are more likely to not ignore them. For the great part it is true that home-staters or people of your racial label are more likely to heed the demands, but this is not always so. Just as T.E. Lawrence fought patriotically for the Arabs in WW1 and sought to bring together an independent state for them there were Arabs that were happy to live under Turkish rule that would do all they could to hinder their countrymen. Many men are strong proponents of Affirmative Action and many women opposed. Overall though it is up to each candidate to decide what they stand on each issue. although some would stereotype Obama paying more attention to inner-city black kids than Clinton we know that this might not be true, and looking at their polices we might find that Clinton's education and welfare programs would be a better asset to their demographic than their fellow non-white running for president's would. (this is example, I have no idea if its true or not). If however they don't do their research and vote instead for Obama, they have just negated their intention for false hopes, thus leading to their own losses.
Posted by Farooq 9 years ago
Farooq
For example if an Independent LDSer in North Dakota looks at Romney as sees the opportunity to put a brother of the faith in the White House and casts her ballot for this reason, that is immoral. If on the other hand she looks at Romney as a candidate (lets just say its down to him and the Mayor) that shares her views on martial definition and the sanctity of life, which she considers important and than votes for these reasons, she is voting for the sake of issues, rather demographic and should be a perfectly acceptable thing to do.

As for your second argument, the one revolving around how its unconstitutional to prevent people for voting for whatever reason, logical or illogical I agree with, but this is not relevant to this debate. We are debating philosophy rather than legislation and catering to viewers themselves, not to voters. My assertions are that one should attempt to purge one's mind of bigotry and bias when coming to the polls and concentrate on the issues and records of the candidates instead.
Posted by Farooq 9 years ago
Farooq
Sorry, I am literally 1 minute too late!

I apologise for the lack of clarity I showed in defining the premise of the debate but I will concur with your definition of demographic, except in the last cases of general belief system (for this is exactly what I'm trying to assert, that they should take issues and beliefs into account) and profession (obviously a successful buinessnman or lawyer is more palatable than an uneducated farmer or paralegal).

As for your arguments involving the example of the Satanist that supports child sacrifice (last Michigan gubertarnorials ringing any bells?) I must refute it for a few reasons. Although my own Abrahamaic beliefs would likely make me extremely uncomfortable with having such leadership you seem to dissenting from the question at hand, for you fail to realise that as a proponent of child sacrifice he or she is suggesting a potential policy that could effect educational reforms, a legitimate political issue. Anyone of any religion that professes and practices laicte though should not be judged in a secular arrangement. If a person of said religion however believed in pushing their ecclesiastical values on the citizenry than one should become wary of the way their believes are effecting policy.
Posted by mdb2290 9 years ago
mdb2290
I'll just add the arguments to my conclusion. I don't want the unfair advantage.
Posted by Farooq 9 years ago
Farooq
Sorry about that. I didn't get to it in time, but I'll present my next arguement set on time next. Do you wanna just forfeit this round as well, and we can make a 2-roundeR? Otherwise you can just present your next arguemnts, because my negilence in not getting this in on time is no excuse to handicap you. Your choice.
Posted by mdb2290 9 years ago
mdb2290
What happened? I've kind of already begun my next to sets of arguments, so I'll give a very brief next set to make it easier. Agreed?
Posted by Farooq 9 years ago
Farooq
sorry.... can we make this a two rounder than?
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
Farooqmdb2290Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.
Vote Placed by claypigeon 9 years ago
claypigeon
Farooqmdb2290Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by Farooq 9 years ago
Farooq
Farooqmdb2290Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
Farooqmdb2290Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by CarBar 9 years ago
CarBar
Farooqmdb2290Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03