The Instigator
SergeantUnicorn
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
elijah254
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

A saltwater croc would beat a great white shark.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/24/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,296 times Debate No: 38103
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

SergeantUnicorn

Pro

I'm just gonna start it simple. The last argument concerning this topic was "kinda" full of bull. My argument is that a saltwater croc is COMPLETELY capable of destroying a great white shark. Although they'd probably both retreat before any real damage is done, I'm just throwing the argument out there. Now, people say that a shark is way more capable of maneuvering in water than a croc. This is true, and not true. Sure a shark is more agile in water, but the croc is still has the ability to protect its under belly from a devastating bite. With that being said, there isn't really another place a bite can do much harm to a croc. The great white, however, has quite a couple weak spots. The fins are easily a target, spreading out more than a croc's arms and legs. Without one of the side fins, a shark couldn't swim straight. Without the dorsal fin, a shark couldn't stabilize itself, nor could it pull off its sharp turns for a bite. When a great white is turned over, it enters a state of tonic immobilization. In this state, a shark's fins straightens and its muscles become relaxed, vulnerable to attacks. When a croc could hold a shark in this position easily. Here comes some "stats." An average saltie is around 16-17 feet long, and weighs around 2000 pounds. An average great white is around 13-17 feet long, and weighs about 2400 pounds. When it comes to size, they're neck and neck, but the bites beg to differ. A great white's bite specializes is slicing into flesh. The bite force of a of a good sized great white would be around 700 psi (pounds per square inch.) The croc's bite is specialized in getting a good grip and crushing bone. The bite force of a good sized saltie, would be around around 8000 psi (didn't believe until I looked it up, go ahead.) With this amazing bite force, a croc could easily cripple a vulnerable area of a shark, such as the fin or jaws. Why? A shark's skeleton isn't completely made of bone. Most of it is in fact, cartilage. You see the white stuff at the end of chicken drumsticks that you could easily crush with your own teeth? That's cartilage. Some people argue that a croc would come up for air in a middle of a fight. Crocodiles, in fact, could hold their breath for 2-3 hours. I doubt the fight would last that long. People don't consider the croc's ability to maneuver in open water. In a fight in an ocean, a croc wouldn't completely get raped by a shark. The fight would just be more balanced. In a shallow estuary, a croc would obviously win, but I'm not talking about obvious wins. So in a fight of an average, adult croc and shark, both would measure around 17 feet. The environment would be a mile off the coast of Australia, and the water would be in normal condition. Just a normal day. (This is actually my first argument on here so sorry if I don't fulfill all of an argument's requirements.) :)
elijah254

Con

One may win and one may lose. Given each animals size, age and health at battle there is no easy winner. Great White Sharks do have the advantage in deep water, the crocodile would have trouble fighting the shark from below, but in shallow water (a crocs territory) Great whites do not occupy. So it is impossible to equally weight the scales.

If the crocodile was placed in deep sea waters then the shark would win.
If the shark was placed in shallow murky water then the crocodile would win.
Debate Round No. 1
SergeantUnicorn

Pro

I'm gonna clear i up a bit. So, the fight scene is in the open ocean. Keep in mind that this argument is about the croc being CAPABLE of killing a shark. It isn't about who is definitely going to rape the other guy. It would make somebody stupid to try to argue about who is gonna always win a fight, 100% guaranteed. This is about how a saltwater crocodile is good enough to make a fight against a great white, a 50-50 fight. The shark does have home advantage. But. Is the crocodile adept at swimming? Yes. Is the crocodile able to at least keep its weak spot away from the shark, while also going on the offensive side? Yes. Keep in mind that the crocodilians are the smartest reptiles. A saltwater croc is able to learn about a something's habits. A croc could see the fact that a human goes swimming every sunset. Then when it's ready, the croc will simply wait in the pool for the poor sucker to come (kinda scary.) The croc could learn how the shark swims, and anticipate the next move. About the breathing problem, again, a croc could hold its breath for around 2-3 hours. A fight wouldn't last that long because either somebody would have won, or they both would have retreated due to fatal wounds. Guess I should leave it at that. May I also say that a croc would always win if the shark is in its territory (river.) Nothing should be known for certain.
elijah254

Con

this debate is rather mediocre. now you have no proof crocs are this intelligent, but lets say they were, a crocodile would still have trouble analyzing a shark surprise attacking from under the water, the crocodile's mouth makes it hard to bite underneath themselves because they never needed to do that.

Now you keep going on about a crocodile biting a shark. A fully adult male great white's body is extremely large and even a fully grown male crocodile would have trouble beating a great white.

The great white will win 100% of all battles because the shark is fighting in his home territory, crocodiles do not swim deep underwater and one bite from the underside will kill the croc easy. Give me some real facts instead of blabbering about things that cant happen.
Debate Round No. 2
SergeantUnicorn

Pro

Now that I think about it, this argument is kinda unnecessary since there's the system of homeland advantage. Whatever. For the intelligence thing, look it up on documentaries and websites. There are many sources stating the croc's brain power and extraordinary abilities. Anyway, I'm gonna answer each of your comebacks. Unlike an alligator, a crocodile has sensors spread all around its body, detecting movement and vibrations in water. Although the waves might be distracting, the shark is giving off vibrations quite different to the waves. What makes you think that the croc would not be weary of the shark going beneath it? The croc would see the shark going down and would keep an eye on the shark. Although the part about the mouth thing is true, what makes you think the croc would just sit tight, completely aware that shark is charging from below. The croc isn't a sitting duck you know. The croc could easily pull off abrasive maneuvers to avoid the strike. Going at a full speed charge like that, the great white would have trouble going back on course, and would most likely speed by the croc. The only way the shark is gonna get a guaranteed hit on the croc's stomach is if the croc is distracted, let's say trying to get a breath. As I have mentioned numerous times already, a croc could hold its breath for 2-3 hours. Perhaps the fight would "stress" the croc. The minimum amount of the time the breath meter would go to is an hour, in which the fight would have ended, one way or another. Unless the shark has learned some super ninja move that allows it to teleport right under the crocodile, the croc is fully capable of keeping its stomach away from the shark. As you said before, yes I've been going on about the croc biting the shark, but what made you assume I was talking about the body or the tail of the shark? Of course a croc wouldn't be able to bite there. The croc would obviously go for the vulnerable fins of the shark. The shark would of course, need to get close to get in for a bite attempt, and that leaves the fins out in the open. The croc could easily rip off a fin while hiding its underside. With this, the shark is either forced to leave the battle scene, or stays crippled and fight. When it comes to dealing with the unknown, crocodiles are more aggressive and would more likely pull off the first strike. Doing my part of the research, I know that crocs are extremely territory and would not hesitate to take a bite out of an invader. If you studied the shark at all, you'd know that the shark would do a "test bump" to determine if the thing is prey or not. If this was a real life encounter, the croc would more likely engage in battle first. You mentioned about me blabbering about stuff that "can't happen.". Refresh my memory. Unless I misread something, everything up there is kinda true. A crocodile is not completely prone to losing to a shark in its homeland, nor is the shark completely prone to losing in a croc's homeland. Now I'll criticize you. You barely stated any advantages the shark had over the croc. All you mentioned was "the shark is in its homeland," "the shark would easily take a bite out of the croc's stomach," and "the shark's body wouldn't be easily messed with." I answered two of them already. You need to be more specific about the shark being in it homeland. How the scenario would come out is that the crocodile would get the first bite off the shark due to the croc's aggression. With that, the shark would be crippled, and the croc would have the advantage then. Now I think about it, there's absolutely no guaranteed to who would win in a fight, considering all of the "conditions and situations that had to be kept in mind." Anyway, I had a great time for my first debate on here. Thank's for making it a challenge. But seriously, the general question of, "Who would win, a croc or shark?", really could not be answered completely fairly. They each have advantages in their own environments. I could swallow my ego and accept that fact, hope you can. KEEP IN MIND that this is not my answer to the debate. My answer to the debate is everything above the last 6 sentences. Anyway, may the best debater win. :D
elijah254

Con

If crocodiles are so smart as you proclaim then why arent they doing more productive things, anyways quality of quantity, reading your wall of biased text hurts and you cant accept the fact that the shark has the natural advantage.

Smartness does not contribute to the survival factor of the crocodile. For example, place the smartest animal on Earth (human) in the water with a shark and guess who will win, we will be able to sense the shark under us and even see it coming.

Anyways as said before the shark would win in a deep sea fight anyday, the crocodile has been scientifically designed to roam in shallow murky water and walking on land. Its body would not have the dexterity of a GREAT WHITE SHARK..

Not to previously mention you are fighting a fully adult male GREAT WHITE on his home turf.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by SergeantUnicorn 3 years ago
SergeantUnicorn
WAIT. For the second round at THE END. It's suppose to say that a croc WOULDN'T always win against the shark. Sorry for any misunderstanding points that could've said. Sorry.
Posted by elijah254 3 years ago
elijah254
One may win and one may lose. Given each animals size, age and health at battle there is no clear winner. Great White Sharks do have the advantage in deep water, the crocodile would have trouble fighting the shark from below, but in shallow water (a crocs territory) Great whites do not occupy.
Posted by SergeantUnicorn 3 years ago
SergeantUnicorn
That video was made when? Yea, 2004. There is a huge amount of errors in that video. How long was the fight? 2 minutes, while a croc could hold its breath for 2-3 hours. The croc delivered a bite of about 7000 psi right on top the shark's jaws, which is mainly made of cartilage. Basically, that shark should be dead, or Old Man Jenkins. The croc ripped the shark's side fin off, which disables the shark's ability to swim straight. With that, the shark's instinct should've told it to get the heck out of there. Finally, the croc put the shark into a state of tonic immobility (look it up), which should've gave the croc all the time it needed to have fun with the shark's body. Moral: don't just throw random bs you find into an argument.
Posted by Oromagi 3 years ago
Oromagi
Posted by Zach1 3 years ago
Zach1
Under what circumstances? What type of environment? You're gonna have to throw some specifics out here before I'd consider accepting this. Of course a crocodile would have no problem against a young or immature great white. Are we talking average adult vs average adult?
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