The Instigator
Actionsspeak
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
ILL_logic
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

A technological dependancy will prove well for the greater good of mankind

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Actionsspeak
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/17/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,196 times Debate No: 46151
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (3)

 

Actionsspeak

Pro

Definitions:

Technology[1]
: the use of science in industry, engineering, etc., to invent useful things or to solve problems
: a machine, piece of equipment, method, etc., that is created by technology

Dependency[1]
: the quality of being dependent

Con may decide whether or not to use the first round for an argument or for acceptance.

Source:
[1] http://www.merriam-webster.com...
ILL_logic

Con

Pro i enjoy this topic and i know that we will both be trying our hardest on this one this will be an ultimate fight =] a fun one as well

i will start off by showing some tools created by humans both past and present.

fluted point
http://www.nativewayonline.com...
as seen here this is a primitive native arrowhead it is used as a weapon the arrowhead here is made of "novaculite" Novaculite is a form of chert or flint found in the Ouachita Mountains of Arkansas and Oklahoma and in the Marathon Uplift of Texas. it is dated to be from 1,000BC

Rage-Titanium-Broadheads http://alcambronne.com...

this broadhead is made of Titanium The two most useful properties of the metal are corrosion resistance and the highest strength-to-density ratio of any metallic element.[5] In its unalloyed condition, titanium is as strong as some steels, but 45% less dense.[6] There are two allotropic forms[7] and five naturally occurring isotopes of this element, 46Ti through 50Ti, with 48Ti being the most abundant (73.8%).[8] Titanium's properties are chemically and physically similar to zirconium, as both of them have the same number of valence electrons and are in the same group in the periodic table. http://en.wikipedia.org...
The processes required to extract titanium from its various ores are laborious and costly; it is not possible to reduce the ore in the normal manner, by heating in the presence of carbon, as that produces titanium carbide.[29] Pure metallic titanium (99.9%) was first prepared in 1910 by Matthew A. Hunter at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute by heating TiCl4 with sodium at 700"800 "C in the Hunter process.[3] Titanium metal was not used outside the laboratory until 1932 when William Justin Kroll proved that it could be produced by reducing titanium tetrachloride (TiCl4) with calcium.[30]

it is because of technology that we could even begin to comprehend the complexity of constructing a weapon made of this material both the primitive arrowhead and the present broadhead have the same use as today the benefit for having the broadhead made of Titanium is a sharper edge -the material will not simply chip or break apart when kinetic energy is applied as well

A relatively primitive hand axe unearthed at the Jebel Faya archaeological site in the United Arab Emirates. REUTERS/Science/AAAS http://www.reuters.com...
A hand axe is a stone tool of the Lower (early) and Middle Paleolithic Stone Age. It was a bifacial, similar on both sides, and held in the hand, not with a handle like a modern axe. It was held directly in the hand, perhaps wrapped in a piece of leather.
This kind of axe is typical of the Acheulean and the Mousterian cultures, and is the longest-used tool of human history. Hand axes were certainly used for at least a million and a half years. They were made by earlier species of man, such as Homo erectus and Homo neanderthalensis (Neanderthal Man); it was one of their most important tools. The hand axe cultures were preceded by an even older Oldowan culture of primitive stone tools (2.6 to 1.7 million years ago) in Africa.[1][2]
Lighter weight hand axes were also made by our own species, Homo sapiens, but we moved on to create a much wider range of tools.http://simple.wikipedia.org... Hand axes were no doubt a multi-purpose tool. Research on their cutting edges has shown that, in many cases, they were used for butchering meat. This would include extracting bone marrow (which would explain the pointed end) and general hacking through bone, muscle and tendons.

MSA 160 C-BQ this is a chain saw http://m.stihlusa.com... a chain saw is a revolutionary design in technology a chainsaw is a "multi tool as well" technology allowed for mankind to invent such a amazing design we may not think a chainsaw is so great and amazing but imagine yourself presenting a piece of technology like this to a native african whose hand are cut up and bruised up from constant friction and abuse from using a primitive hand axe and the will be in awe of such an amazing and revolutionary design !

Pony express rider
http://www.pbs.org... this is a picture of Frank E.Webner he was a rider for the pony express .there was a time where people could only gather information by word of mouth and from a courier delivering a message or a letter the pony express was no different
In 1860, there were about 157 Pony Express stations that were about 10 miles (16 km) apart along the Pony Express route.[6] This was roughly the distance a horse could travel at a gallop before tiring. At each station stop the express rider would change to a fresh horse, taking only the mail pouch called a mochila (from the Spanish for pouch or backpack) with him. The employers stressed the importance of the pouch. They often said that, if it came to be, the horse and rider should perish before the mochila did. The mochila was thrown over the saddle and held in place by the weight of the rider sitting on it. Each corner had a cantina, or pocket. Bundles of mail were placed in these cantinas, which were padlocked for safety. The mochila could hold 20 pounds (9.1 kg) of mail along with the 20 pounds (9.1 kg) of material carried on the horse. Included in that 20 pounds (9.1 kg) were a water sack, a Bible, a horn for alerting the relay station master to prepare the next horse, a revolver, and a choice of a rifle or another revolver.[13] Eventually, everything except one revolver and a water sack was removed, allowing for a total of 165 pounds (75 kg) on the horse's back. Riders, who could not weigh over 125 pounds (57 kg), changed about every 75"100 miles (121"161 km), and rode day and night. In emergencies, a given rider might ride two stages back to back, over 20 hours on a quickly moving horse.http://en.wikipedia.org...

it took time but as the population rose rapidly and demands were not being met technology allowed mankind to create this !
computer-repair-Thousand-Oaks-47Internet - 3d abstract blue tunnel Stock Photo - 7579780 INTERNET The Internet is a global system of interconnected computer networks that use the standard Internet protocol suite (TCP/IP) to serve several billion users worldwide. It is a network of networks that consists of millions of private, public, academic, business, and government networks, of local to global scope, that are linked by a broad array of electronic, wireless, and optical networking technologies.http://en.wikipedia.org...
you see its because of technology that life today is the most productive it has ever been its because the studies in medicine and networking and biology that we can better prepare ourselves and fight against disease like The Black Death- originated in or near China and spread by way of the Silk Road or by ship. It may have reduced world population from an estimated 450 million down to 350"375 million by the year 1400 "wikipedia/black death"
Debate Round No. 1
Actionsspeak

Pro

Before I begin I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate, and I look forward to learning throughtout.

Technology is not good or bad, technology (on Earth) is controlled by Humans who design and use it as they wish, technology currently aids mankind in the pursuit of knowledge, happiness, life, and liberty. below i've taken the liberty of writing some advances field that the Technology has aided and certain examples (all with links), in total this round took me over 2 1/2 hours.

Agriculture:

Advances in Agriculture and very rapid, in 1900 one worker could feed 25 people, in 2010 one worker could feed 200 people.

Some features of agriculture involving technology are: pesticides[2], fertilizers[3], and modern harvestors[4].

Communication:

Now you can wirelessly communicate with someone on the other side of the world with little to no cost, and it even made this debate possible.

Some features of Communication involving technology are: Telephones[5], Computers[6], Laptops[7].

Cooking abilites:

Man has come a long way since his forefather who had to use fire, nowadays you can easily cook food using new age technology found in the homes of most developed, and some developing nations.

Some features of Consumer handling of food involving technology are: ovens[8], toasters[9], microwaves[10].

Education: education has been improved by better simulations and models, international learning, manipulatives, assessments, and Ebooks[11]

Some features of Education involving technology are: Computers [6], Smartboards[12], and even 3D printers[13].

Entertainment: Yet another thing that exists essentually because of technology, though my opponent has listed how men of horses could travel and deliver mail it's much less effect at deliver news, and takes much more time. Some of the ways technology have aided Entertainment, is by allowing for international broadcasting on popular TV shows, movies,

Some features of Entertainment involving technology are: the camera[14], television [15], and the gaming system[16].

Green energy/Renewable energy:

What a marvelous idea Green/renewable energy is, the best thing about technology is that it's always getting faster, more effecient, more complex(not always a good thing, but typically it is.), better, and cheaper.

Some work in green energy and renewable energy involving technology are: green homes[17], more efficient cars[18], and a smaller footprint which will lead the world into renewability so our next generation can live better than we do.[19]

Medical Care: Medical care wasn't advanced by technology, it was made by technology. It's a large reason avergae lifespan is increasing in both developed and developing nations in the 20th century the average lifespan was 33, in 2010 the average lifespan was 67. [20]

Some features of Medical Care involving technology are: open heart surgery[21], the Flu vaccine[22], and the research of cancer, in which humans have learned much not just about diseases, but also the human genome. [23]

Space Travel and Exploration: One of the biggest feats in Human history was achieved by means of technology as Neil Armstrong message was heard after he stepped on the moon (though the microphone garbled some of the audio):
"That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind."[24]

Some features of Space Travel and Exploration are: the mars rover[25], dozens of satellites in orbit[26], and the lunar rover.[27]

Special Needs: their are millions of people, who have special needs and use technology to help them function in daily life.

Some evidence of People with Special Needs being aided by technology are: Steven Hawking's chair[28], paralyzed American veterans[29], and a list of other technologic creations (view link) [30].

Travel: Nowadays Humans can easily travel almost anywhere around the globe thanks to technology.

Some features of Travel involving technology are: Airplanes[31], Cars[32], and Bicycles[33].

I believe that all this technology is aiding mankind, and continuing upon the research and development it is for the greater food of mankind. I would argue my side to a greater extent, but as of now I have little to refute based on Con's opening round, best of luck during this debate Con and expect more next round.

Sources:
[1] http://www.significancemagazine.org...
[2] http://www.niehs.nih.gov...
[3] http://home.howstuffworks.com...
[4] http://www.historylink.org...
[5] http://inventors.about.com...
[6] http://www.computerhistory.org...
[7] http://inventors.about.com...
[8] http://inventors.about.com...
[9] http://inventors.about.com...
[10] http://www.ideafinder.com...
[11] http://mashable.com...
[12] http://smarttech.com...
[13] http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
[14] http://inventors.about.com...
[15] http://inventors.about.com...
[16] http://inventors.about.com...
[17] http://home.howstuffworks.com...
[18] http://www.whitehouse.gov...
[19] http://www.realclearenergy.org...
[20] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[21] http://www.nlm.nih.gov...
[22] http://www.cdc.gov...
[23] http://www.cancerresearchuk.org...
[24] http://www.nasa.gov...
[25] http://marsrover.nasa.gov...
[26] http://satellites.findthedata.org...
[27] http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...
[28] http://www.hawking.org.uk...
[29] http://www.pva.org...
[30] http://mashable.com...
[31] http://inventors.about.com...
[32] http://inventors.about.com...
[33] http://inventors.about.com...
ILL_logic

Con

Those are some entertaining and educational Facts that you have presented to me. i can tell that you have taken a lot of time to prepare your arguments as i have as well you are a most worthy opponent my friend !

As you notice in round one it was more like a quick history lesson more then anything and it may have seemed rather boring or bland for most but now i will show you a very possible scenario of an attack that is very likely the "EMP" "Electromagnetic pulse" http://en.wikipedia.org... an attack like this would be devastating to the 3/4 of americans who would not know what to do if this was to happen.

In a nightmare EMP scenario, the entire nation would be a disaster area. Systems could be down for weeks, months, or even years.
Ermarth is quick to point out that an EMP would not throw America back to the 17th century; it would throw the nation back to the Stone Age. There would be a 21st century population living in a primitive environment without Stone Age skills.
In the 19th century, 75 percent of the nation"s population farmed. They were one generation removed from being pioneers. Now the nation is fed by only 2 percent of population. Most of the 98 percent do not have the survival skills to live past a few months.
William Forstchen
Survivalists would last for a while, but then would have to contend with people streaming out of cities looking for food.
Dr. William Forstchen is a professor of history at Montreat College and the author of a best-selling book on the possible aftermath of an EMP event. The book, titled "One Second After" explains what might happen in a typical American town in the wake of an attack. Forstchen has said he got his inspiration for his book from Newt Gingrich. (Gingrich, Forstchen noted, was the only presidential candidate talking about the dangers from an EMP.)
Speaking on the August 3 webcast hosted by United West, Forstchen said that "you cannot recover from an EMP."
In that same webcast, Pry noted, an EMP event is the most serious threat facing the United States, but almost no one knows about it.
The United States has already had two warnings in the last two month: the power outages in Washington, D.C. and India.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com...
http://www.wnd.com...

7f74b701-smush-EMP-Radius

Try and imagine yourself being present in the time that this happens .
cut off from the internet-all phones unable to work-anything that uses a chip would be fried-all our automobiles,planes,etc.
nobody would predict it happening before it is to late.

WHO IS CAPABLE OF PRODUCING EMP ? YEAH RIGHT ! WHO WOULD DO THAT !?!?

CHINA
China's military is developing electromagnetic pulse weapons that Beijing plans to use against U.S. aircraft carriers in any future conflict over Taiwan, according to an intelligence report made public on Thursday.
Portions of a National Ground Intelligence Centerstudy on the lethal effects of electromagnetic pulse (EMP) and high-powered microwave (HPM) weapons revealed that the arms are part of China"s so-called "assassin"s mace" arsenal - weapons that allow a technologically inferior China to defeat U.S. military forces.
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...

NORTH KOREA
North Korea has labored for years and starved its people so it could develop an intercontinental missile capable of reaching the United States. Why? Because they have a special kind of nuclear weapon that could destroy the United States with a single blow.
In summer 2004, a delegation of Russian generals warned the Congressional Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Commission that secrets had leaked to North Korea for a decisive new nuclear weapon " a Super-EMP warhead.
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com...
Wikipedia: Faraday Cage

As for known countries that are known to posses them: US, Russia and the UK. Supposedly only the Soviets had produced any substantial amounts of these weapons, which also the majority of which have been "supposedly" disarmed. Basically any nation who can create a nuclear weapon can create a makeshift EMP weapon.

Most likely, the United States' HPM e-bombs aren't really bombs at all. They're probably more like super powerful microwave ovens that can generate a concentrated beam of microwave energy. One possibility is the HPM device would be mounted to a cruise missile, disrupting ground targets from above.
This technology is advanced and expensive and so would be inaccessible to military forces without considerable resources. But that's only one piece of the e-bomb story. Using inexpensive supplies and rudimentary engineering knowledge, a terrorist organization could easily construct a dangerous e-bomb device.http://science.howstuffworks.com...

how do we know this could even happen you may ask or this just sounds stupid and silly !
could be true . but knowing the effects of a device like this should we just brush it off and take the chance ?

No one looks around anymore. No one looks up from their screens. And although they live in a big city -- THE Big Apple, in fact -- the people around her live in the small world of their own screens. They meet no one new. They don't ask for directions on the street and they don't talk to people near them in the coffee shop. They're busy with their time-consuming technologies.
My wife and I were talking about this the other day and we realized that no one knows anyone's phone number any more. There are thousands of digits in any given iPhone, but not a single seven-digit number in anyone's head. My mother-in-law doesn't know her own daughters' numbers. I don't know my own sister's. Basically, why memorize something that a cell phone already knows?
And although I send hundreds of emails each month, I don't know anyone's real or electronic addresses. I have no idea how to send a letter to any of my five siblings because, address-wise, I don't know where they live. I literally don't.
And speaking of location, Nokia did a study four years ago that showed that a quarter of the world's population can't get around their own home towns or cities without GPS units, and the percentage of map-crippled individuals has to be growing. Many people literally don't know where they are or how to get anywhere around them. The art and relationship of map, navigation, and spatial memory is quickly being lost.http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

i ask people right now to stop what you are doing for a minute and ask yourself this question .
"how many people do i know right now that would go crazy without there devices, how many people do i know right now that honestly would be simply screwed not knowing where to go and what to do during an event like this" the answer may or may not surprise you.

we would be set back to time in history like the stone age ,a time where we people alive right now has never lived in !
just think about that and when you do i ask you post your thoughts in the comment box and let me know your reaction and response to this.
Debate Round No. 2
Actionsspeak

Pro

Despite the poor logic Con used in which he argued we shouldn't rely on technology because it can destroyed, I have still used this round to refute his argument, despite how it's strength. I will also note that not one advantage of relying on technology in round 2 was refuted.

How EMP's work is listed , and a forums discussion about generators, are listed in my first three sources[1][2][3]. So the statement that Con said:
"we would be set back to time in history like the stone age" was obviously false and not thought about, in addition many technological devices will still work while you may have temporarily lost your mom's cell phone numbers, pipes and human necessities would still work and be available, some cars (if turned off or further away from the initial blast), would still be accessible along with electricity. But I would like you to completely explain how getting emp'd and having to get a new laptop or travel out of the country/area means technology has now fallen back to the stone age.

About the graph you posted featuring a miraculous solar flare that just happens to land in the exact center of the US I would like to mention the EMP strength gets weaker and weaker as it expands outward (in a circular form).
A solar EMP could be minutes, hours, days, or whatever. Depends on the event. Nuclear EMP's are quick, pulses, they're the most destructive and more likely to occur. For a strong Solar flare to occur the conditions have to be perfect (odds are this won't happen in your lifetime) since the flare must be a strong one fired perfectly at earth and not only must it be aimed at earth out of anywhere it could be aimed in space, but it must also land on a land and over 2/3's of the earth's surface is covered in water.[4]

Sources:
[1] http://modernsurvivalblog.com...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] http://www.survivalistboards.com...
[4] http://ga.water.usgs.gov...
ILL_logic

Con

That was a good try Pro but i fear your the one whos "logic is poor" here is why

(1.) you say " and a forums discussion about generators, are listed in my first three sources[1][2][3]. So the statement that Con said:
"we would be set back to time in history like the stone age" was obviously false and not thought about, in addition many technological devices will still work while you may have temporarily lost your mom's cell phone numbers, pipes and human necessities would still work and be available, some cars (if turned off or further away from the initial blast), would still be accessible along with electricity. But I would like you to completely explain how getting emp'd and having to get a new laptop or travel out of the country/area means technology has now fallen back to the stone age."

this is very wrong your generators you will have for a short time but what are you going to do when the gas runs out ? do you know that all gas station pumps will not work ? and most likely people will kill for gas . so thats "ill_logical"

(2.) you say that "human necessities would still work and be available, some cars (if turned off or further away from the initial blast), would still be accessible along with electricity."

wrong again , it doesnt matter if any electrical device is on or off if it his a chip ,its fried . my EMP wiki source clearly explains that . you say that we will still have electricity , we will not , in fact we will not even have running water after a week and when we run out of it its back to digging wells you see all the pants and nuclear reactors run and generate on and off of computers so they too would be screwed . i fear you still do not know much about an emp so you are throwing false claims around.
i hope you have something better for me
Debate Round No. 3
Actionsspeak

Pro

The road to recovery from an emp

In the modern world countries are very giving and willing to hand out foreign aid[1], so in the scenario that one country emp's another in all likelyhood the country hit would receive millions of dollars worth of foreign aid to help pay for the damage.
I'll even list some of the aid money, and what country it's from the Katrina hurricane [2]: (I would also recommend you view the source since I only listed a few countries)

Afghanistan- $100,000
Albania- $300,000
Armenia- $200,000
The Bahamas- $50,000
Canada- over 1,000 personnel
Cuba- 1,568 doctors
China- $5,000,000 along with 1,000 tents, 600 generators, bed sheets, medical care, disaster relief workers, and 104 tons of medical supplies.
Cyprus- $50,000
Equatorial Guinea- $500,000
Gabon- $500,000
Iceland- $500,000
South Korea- $30,000,000
Oman- $15,000,000
Qatar- $100,000,000 to victims
Turkey- $2,500,000
United Arab Empires- $100,000,000

I would also like to clarify that a strong, long lasting solar flare emp landing on a continent is very, very unlikely to occur in an average man's lifetime(and my opponent build his argument off what will happen if another country emps another). Meanwhile a nuclear emp typically lasts less than 0.01 of a second meaning you can immediatly start rebuilding, once electronics are destroyed.

My opponent said: "this is very wrong your generators you will have for a short time but what are you going to do when the gas runs out ? do you know that all gas station pumps will not work ? and most likely people will kill for gas . so thats "ill_logical""

However I reccomend ignoring this since not only will the country get millions upon millions of foreign aid and technology (such as gas station pumps) but it will likely get oil from another country in the event it runs out or even low during an emp. Just for example both Portugal and Spain offered 1.75-2% of their oil reserve to the U.S. during Katrina.[2]

Besides is their any logic within saying that technology is bad because it can be destroyed/emp'd, In addition all of its effects listed this debate (mainly round 2) have been positive, thanks for debating this topic with me Con and I look forward to seeing the votes and comments.

Sources:
[1] http://www.heritage.org...
[2] http://www.nationmaster.com...
ILL_logic

Con

yes ,i see that you are implying that other countries will come to americas aid with a helping hand
i find that funny because we are the ones that always have to go help out other countries most of them dont have the resources to come help us and the ones that do are not to happy with us
they will see our weakness and vulnerbility and come attack us while we are down

it will be the ultimate advantage that leaves us open for attack

it doesnt have to be just an EMP it could be any matter of chaos -a ice age- raging solar flares-major asteroid that leaves this earth helpless and the survivors will have to do without technology and honestly i dont think many will survive very few,not enough to repopulate and with what resources? i think its because of all this technology that people will not know how to overcome the next big doomsday senario
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by ILL_logic 2 years ago
ILL_logic
nah your fine bro i was ready for this debate to be over lol you won it was a tough one
Posted by Krazzy_Player 2 years ago
Krazzy_Player
Better report that vote.
Posted by Actionsspeak 2 years ago
Actionsspeak
The debate never really ended, I feel like I should have made it 5 rounds, sucks you had to end on the round you spent the least time on.
Posted by ILL_logic 2 years ago
ILL_logic
iamanatheistandthisiswhy you are an idiot that surely just wanted to feel important and vote on something
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by iamanatheistandthisiswhy 2 years ago
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
ActionsspeakILL_logicTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Con plagiarized most of the arguments present as can be revealed by a simple Google search and the incoherent sentence construction and flow. All points to Pro.
Vote Placed by Finalfan 2 years ago
Finalfan
ActionsspeakILL_logicTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Nice!
Vote Placed by Krazzy_Player 2 years ago
Krazzy_Player
ActionsspeakILL_logicTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Good debate. I'm rating S & G to Pro, as I found "Capitalisation" and "Punctuation" errors made by Con. Even though it seems presentation of arguments by Con in the last round was not sufficient he had done a pretty good job in the other rounds. Both side "arguments", "refutation" and "reasoning" are pretty well presented by both the sides. Thus all other areas I'm keeping it a tie.