The Instigator
Conspicuous_Conservative
Pro (for)
Losing
22 Points
The Contender
kenito001
Con (against)
Winning
25 Points

A valid picture Identification should be a requirement to vote.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/16/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,688 times Debate No: 1840
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (13)

 

Conspicuous_Conservative

Pro

I would like to first thank all the people that will be involved in this debate, for time sake I will make my argument short and to the point especially because it is common sense. I would like my opponent to please tell me why requiring identification is presidential or keeps a certain group from voting.

In both the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections ballot tampering and people being turned away from the ballot boxes. Many people in the democrat party to this day feel that Bush lost both elections. If Identification was required it would be much easier eliminate voter fraud. Currently the US is engaging it's self in the primary selection for each individual party. Reports of Obahma shipping in people from his neighboring state of Illinois, I heard the same reports making the same claims that Clinton and McCain were doing the same thing in New Hampshire. Our electoral process is simple who ever receives the most votes win. If we can implement the requirement of identification to vote corruption and many other forms of unethical behavior can be reduced.
kenito001

Con

Voter ID cards are unfair and ineffective in preventing voter fraud. The main concern with requiring an ID card, other than voter registration card, would be the additional costs incurred just to use the inherent right granted to all Americans to vote. While not posing a strong disincentive preventing voters from paying one-time fee to exercise their future right to vote, the principle of paying to vote is unfair and should not be advocated.

As a counter-plan to solve the problems of the 2000 and 2004 elections, the solution should be a federal mandate requiring paper trials for all election precincts. A paper trail would allow voter fraud to be caught most efficiently. More of a concern than having individuals vote under a fake identity is the possibility of having electronic voting booths have their votes switched without being able to prove otherwise.
Debate Round No. 1
Conspicuous_Conservative

Pro

kenito I would like to thank you for participating in the debate I would like to further thank you for the fact that you have left political bias out of the debate and we are only debating on the issue itself. As I stated in my opening argument I was going to make it concise in order to get the argument under way so I apologize if I was unable to answer your question in the opening statement. You did bring up a good point of a paper trail and I feel that the paper trail in addition to requiring photo identification will prevent a lot of fraud that goes on during an election process.

The first thing I will address is point that you have brought up pertaining to photo identifications being, "unfair and ineffective in preventing voter fraud." You have given me no example of how requiring identification is unfair to any group whether it be a racial, gender or sexual orientation bias. If Identification constituted unfairness it would be safe to say that stores and other places of business are being unfair when they choose to ID people. The thing is that we ID people in order to; to prove they are who they are (people purchasing stuff with credit and debit cards, they are of legal age (ex. purchasing cigarettes and alcohol). I have yet to hear a complaint about how looking for someone's ID is a form of racism like you are portraying it to be.

You made an interesting yet very untrue statement of voters having to pay this one time fee in order to vote. I guess this statement you made is to show that this supposed one time fee would disenfranchise the poor while giving the wealthy an easier time voting. I strongly disagree, in order to vote one would only need a valid picture ID which can be found in many forms that are easily obtained and already in use. Drivers licenses, state issued licenses and military ID cards. Some school ID's in college have a student number that can be linked to a valid social these too would work and lastly a passport. All these forms of ID's are easily available with the most expensive being the passport being around fifty dollars. These fees can be afforded by any and all of voting ages and I am sure their can be programs to make sure all law abiding, of age and legal American citizens enjoy their right to vote. Hope to hear from you soon and to hear all the input that all have.
kenito001

Con

I am arguing not against PICTURE ID cards, but VOTER ID cards, the ones that are being debated by the Presidential nominees. A voting card would have a picture ID on it and be an additional cost outside of a driver's license, passport, etc.
Debate Round No. 2
Conspicuous_Conservative

Pro

I would like to remind you the title of my debate; A valid picture Identification should be a requirement to vote. I would suggest that in the future you carefully read a debate before you suggest to debate. All I ask and many all many people of America ask is that we show a little accountability in the ballot boxes. I now see why you insisted that this would cost money. There is no need for this nation to spend more money when their are already so many forms of ID floating around. If you need two forms of ID to open a banking account, another two forms to apply for a job or a valid passport to leave the country it should be a no brainer that we require proof of ID that determines the selection of the leadership of our country.

I wish you the best of luck in your future debates and I don't mean to dump on you for the attention to details but I am really dumb founded at the fact that no one feels that having people ID before they vote is a big deal. Take Care

Sincerely,
Fred R.
kenito001

Con

By the definition of your title, I was speaking off topic for the previous Rounds. However, the only federally mandated election law change suggestions for future Federal Elections have been not a picture ID, but a voter ID. Regardless, I will propose a counter-plan advocating voter accountability through a paper trail. The greatest risk to switching votes (D. Josef Thompson, University of Chicago) is tampering with electronic machines. Because votes are analyzed more on the county precinct level instead of the voting locations, discrepencies are much harder to find. In the 2000 and 2004 elections, he estimates, that there were more incidences of voter fraud by one individual than there were electronic machine tampering. However, the percentage of votes changed by machine tampering outweighed the percentage of votes changed by voter fraud by a ratio of 3:1, while even counting invalidated absentee ballots equals the approximate number of votes by voter fraud. I will now assess the American government's ability to improve its voting system. The American government only has the resources available to take one option: paper trails for electronic machines OR voter/picture ID because of the official documentation and training purposes. The winner of this debate is the Negative side because its counter-plan of instituting a paper trail defeats the Affirmative plan of picture Identification at the voting booth.

Thanks,

The Colonel
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Daddy_Warbux 9 years ago
Daddy_Warbux
Photo IDs would not necessarily solve any problems with voter fraud. It may make things better, but it probably would not have a great effect.
13 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by kenito001 8 years ago
kenito001
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Vote Placed by pcmbrown 8 years ago
pcmbrown
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Vote Placed by blond_guy 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by fightinirish1985 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by buckaroo54 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by yoon172 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by griffinisright 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by iq_two 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Daddy_Warbux 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by thelemite 9 years ago
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