The Instigator
solo
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
mastajake
Pro (for)
Winning
17 Points

ALL gays should support Gay Marriage

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
mastajake
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/28/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,841 times Debate No: 5831
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (3)

 

solo

Con

I am gay. I support equality for all, but I do not support Gay Marriage.

In my country more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. It's a joke and the majority of marriages are a mockery. In other parts of the world, 'Marriage' is just another word for 'Slavery'. Marriage is a disgusting institution and should be abolished. Therefore, I do not support marriage of any kind, including Gay Marriage.

To support the same nonsensical commercialism involved in weddings, the disappointing statistics of successful marriages and the archaic religious notions from millennia past is barbaric.
mastajake

Pro

First off I would like to thank my opponent for bringing an interesting view into this interesting topic.

Definitions:
Equality - the state or quality of being equal; correspondence in quantity, degree, value, rank, or ability

Debate:
Not all would agree with your view on marriage making your view on equality insufficient.

Your premise seems to be more concerned with marriage itself rather than gay marriage.

‘Given your marriage bashing statements'

To clarify, your resolution is all gays should be support gay marriage.

Even say someone like you who makes claims like "I am gay" ‘but I do not support gay marriage'. That would be robbing the equal right of all the other gays for gay marriage.

Gay marriage can be legalized and even someone like you, who doesn't support it at all has the free decision of choosing yourself to marry or not to marry. (This is assuming you live in America where it is a real issue in debate currently)

If you are truly for equality it would be relevant to support gay marriage. Despite personal views on marriage. Unless you plan on abolishing marriage, which I think people in America have developed so deeply in to their American idealistic heads making it impossible, the equality situation is impossible unless you legalize gay marriage.

I feel my debate is sufficient and look forward to my opponents rebuttal.

~Mastajake
Debate Round No. 1
solo

Con

Thank you for accepting the debate, Mastajake.

We're in agreement with the definition of equality, as it is on Dictionary.com: http://dictionary.reference.com...

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True, but marriage is a detriment to societal progress. It's just like protecting minors from being able to legally smoke cigarettes. Should I also support smoking for those under the age of eighteen years to support equality? No, of course not. This is the very same thing, in my opinion. Marriage is unhealthy for the majority of people and I do not think all gays should support such an institution.

As for "robbing the equal right of all the other gays for gay marriage", my opinion is in the best interest of the gay community, as is my above-mentioned opinion regarding smoking cigarettes.

I am truly for equality, but it would not be relevant to support gay marriage. Marriage should be abolished. Civil Unions can function adequately to share benefits, such as insurance coverage and whatnot, but the tainted bond of marriage is not in the best interest of the gay community, or the world for that matter.

Lately commercials are dominating television targeting parents and use innocent children to push agendas. Most religious leaders in this country are not accepting of Gay Marriage and this issue unnecessarily puts gays in danger.

Gay Marriage does not improve this world. Marriage, in general, is a joke. It is not improving the world for heterosexuals, so it stands to reason that gays will suffer the same humiliations, betrayals and divorce costs as straight people.

Irrational possessive attachment through marriage is not what the gays need. Marriage traps people and makes many feel there is no escape. Marriage has even led many to kill their spouse in order escape.

It would be wrong and dangerous for all gays to support Gay Marriage.
mastajake

Pro

Thank you for your diligent response but still differ,

Debate:
Your argument is based more on the premise that marriage should be abolished making your resolution and your premise two different things. Your resolution is "ALL gays should support Gay Marriage" which seems very specific.

Then your premise is ‘marriage it self should be abolished', so every one including gays should not support marriage. But what this says is that not only gay but ‘straight' people should be against marriage as well. I'm sorry but this sounds like a different topic to me one that is pertaining more to marriage itself leaving it to me to be irrelevant to the actual topic.

Should gays support or not support gay marriage is the real question here.

Now if gays did not support gay marriage the majority of support would be gone and it probably would not become legal leaving it to this

‘Straights' have the right to marriage
‘Gays' do not have the right to marriage

Meaning they are not at par and equality is not active in this issue. It is as simple as that.

If gay marriage was passed then equality would be active for whether or not marriage is a right thing, they both would have the right to it putting straights and gays at par. Creating equality in force.

Rebuttal:
You say "Irrational possessive attachment through marriage is not what the gays need."

-Who says that every one agrees with this, once again, this is a personal opinion. You speak as if every one abides by the same ethics and standards as you do.

I feel my debate is sufficient I look forward to your final rebuttal and thank you

~ Mastajake
Debate Round No. 2
solo

Con

I'm glad you responded as quickly as you did, Mastajake, but I disagree with your arguments.

The negative impact on marriage for heterosexuals must be explored in order to show how it would impact homosexuals in the same fashion. If legalizing smoking for minors, would you not explore the health concerns and effects of smoking on adults before supporting such an act? Of course you would. Everyone should quit smoking because it has proven to be hazardous to one's health.

There are many reasons that gays should not support Gay Marriage and I've listed a few. "Marriage has even led many to kill their spouse in order escape." You cannot guarantee that there will be only positive aspects to gays that enter marriage, but I think most people can agree that Gay Marriage will lead to the demise of many gays, in the same way it has led to the downfall of many heterosexuals. If one of us suffers, we all suffer. It stands to reason that a lot of suffering can be avoided completely if we do away with marriage. Therefore, gays should not support Gay Marriage.

Equality is very relevant to this debate because a Civil Union can provide a gay couple with the same legal rights and privileges that the straight community enjoys, which make Gay Marriage unnecessary. Health care can be shared by one partner for another. In the event of a death, a Civil Union can grant the surviving member an estate without fear that disapproving family members can contest a will and claim what was intentionally not left for them, which frequently happens.

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Civil Unions can accomplish the same thing without turning the churches actively against the gay community. There is no need for Gay Marriage or the aftermath of what it will bring. It is as simple as that.

Thanks for the debate, M.
mastajake

Pro

First off I would like to thank solo for this interesting debate and I wish the best of luck to him in the voting round.

Rebuttals/Debate:
you say "The negative impact on marriage for heterosexuals must be explored in order to show how it would impact homosexuals in the same fashion."

- You are still on the main proposal that marriage (which legal for straights, not gays) should be abolished.
I thought I would point out to you that it is highly unlikely that we are going to drop marriage any time soon specially considering how accustomed the world for that matter is to marriage.

Taking in to consideration that marriage isn't going to go any where soon, Gays should most definitely support gay marriage. Making gay marriage illegal flys in the face of injustice to the constitution amending equal rights.

You say"Equality is very relevant to this debate because a Civil Union can provide a gay couple with the same legal rights and privileges that the straight community enjoys, which make Gay Marriage unnecessary."

Again this is only considering that marriage is absent in the situation making it equal otherwise it is still not. It sounds like you have recommended marriage simply without the title of marriage. pointless to me for separation( otherwise divorce ) and killing in the heat of emotion will surly still be around, given marriage is gone or not. taking away marriage doesn't solve a whole lot.

As far as I am concerned the only way for gays to have equality (in term of marriage) would be to legalize gay marriage putting them at par with strait marriage.(this is being more realistic than abolishing marriage all together no offense)

Surly gays would and should support gay marriage for equality. It is absolutely reasonable.

Taking my significant points into consideration hopefully you will vote appropriately for 'Pro'

"All gays should support gay marriage "

Thank you for those that have read it this far and I hope you vote accordingly
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Tristboi22 3 years ago
Tristboi22
+Solo
"There are many reasons that gays should not support Gay Marriage and I've listed a few. "Marriage has even led many to kill their spouse in order escape." You cannot guarantee that there will be only positive aspects to gays that enter marriage, but I think most people can agree that Gay Marriage will lead to the demise of many gays, in the same way it has led to the downfall of many heterosexuals. If one of us suffers, we all suffer. It stands to reason that a lot of suffering can be avoided completely if we do away with marriage. Therefore, gays should not support Gay Marriage."

Correlation does not prove causation. There is no evidence that the "marriage" caused one spouse to kill the other. With epidemiology, you can't prove what causes something, but you can prove what does not cause something. What evidence do you have to support that if we do away with marriage that "lots of suffering" can be avoided? Furthermore, your "teen smoking argument" does not hold water either. Where do we draw the line? How much salty foods, alcoholic drinks, and junk food should we be allowed to have? It's no one else's business! Teens are not adults, but adults are FREE to make bad and unhealthy choices as long as they are not illegal. That is what this country is about.
Posted by TheSkeptic 8 years ago
TheSkeptic
Voting as a Cleaner

Conduct - TIE: Nothing crazy

Spelling and Grammar - Tie: No side made too many mistakes

Convincing Arguments - PRO: CON's argument rested on his assertion that marriage should be abolished. However, he hasn't adequately shown why it should be abolished, though I did see his point in using it for this debate; interesting tactic.

Reliable Sources - TIE: No one had any sources except one for definitions.
Posted by solo 8 years ago
solo
Sounds good, solo. I have to go out of town tonight and I won't be back until Wednesday, so it'll have to wait.

As for the debate title, it's correct. :P

Have a good weekend and a good Veteran's Day.
Posted by solo2070 8 years ago
solo2070
Solo I think you titled this debate incorrectly. I think you should have went more along the lines with how you think marriage should be abolished or that it is a detriment to society.

should you decide that you would like to do another debate along those lines I would love to engage in such a debate. Just challenge and we can let it continue.
Posted by solo 8 years ago
solo
TBD

To be divorced. XD
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"
In my country more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. It's a joke and the majority of marriages are a mockery. "

What about the ones that aren't? :D
Posted by solo 8 years ago
solo
Good catch. Thanks!
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
Clarification: Do you mean ALL gays?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by TheSkeptic 8 years ago
TheSkeptic
solomastajakeTied
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Vote Placed by jess_ily 8 years ago
jess_ily
solomastajakeTied
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Vote Placed by mastajake 8 years ago
mastajake
solomastajakeTied
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