The Instigator
ajthenoob
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

Able-bodied people should not receive welfare if they don't work

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/26/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,116 times Debate No: 85558
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

ajthenoob

Pro

The whole point of working is to provide a service or produce something that benefits some group of people in some way. When people don't contribute to that system, they should not get to reap its benefits. I am referring to the welfare 'leeches' especially prominent in European countries like Sweden, aka "Welfare Paradise"

If welfare were to be a thing, the recipients should be required to work for it in some way, like public services. Provided they are able-bodied, of course.

If I spend my time working to improve society such as working in sanitation, real estate, or any other job, a part of my paycheck should not go to some lazy person who sits at home and is basically a leech to society.

The system should be a "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" system, not "it doesn't matter whether you work or not, you still get money"

If you accept, please provide a few reasons why my proposed system is wrong/bad.
lannan13

Con

I thank my opponent for sending me the challenge as I do hope that my performance in this debate meets his expectations. In this debate I will show why my opponent's plan, as known as Workfare, fails both economically and why it's esencially slavery.

Contention 1: Workfare displaces jobs.

Many of the success that workfare claims to have is that it lead to the increase of people finding actual jobs as people leave the JSA (a workfare program in the UK), but we have seen that out of 1,400 DWP work expierence workers that left, only 250 found jobs, which give you only a 20% success rate while the others didn't find jobs and left workfare to leave it. [1]

JSA survival rates graph
The Center for Economic and Social Inclusion did a survey in 2011, and found the fallowing conclusion:

This [graph] appears to show that the youth work experience scheme has had no additional impact on the speed at which young people leave benefit, and may have actually led to them spending longer on benefit than they would have done. However, these figures require some caution – the stated intent of the Department has been to target work experience at those with the biggest barriers to work, who would likely have had rates below the average for all claimants.” [2]

Here we can see that spending time in workfare is actually counterproductive and harmful to actually use.

They have also found that there are countless failures in workfare. A total of $1.5 billion has been spent over the last 7 years on workfare and they have found that only 1/5 who enter and leave the workfare program end up actually finding a job above the poverty line. [3] The rest are forced to live under the poverty line in horrible conditions. The money saved in this process had harmed the workers significantly as not only did they make less than the legal minimum wage, their forcing of living in poverty to pennies a day is nearly a breach of human rights and pratically slavery, which I'll get to here in a minute. [4] This plan also reduced Aggregate Demand, since most of the time they are very low paying jobs. In order to attempt to get close to the poverty level they spend more and more of their money which destroys the Long term growth as there is no way that will help the economy, but would lead to a possible recession is my opponent's plan is implamented.

Contention 2: Slavery



Slavery, as we know it, is forced labor where one cannot simply leave the job while receiving minimal to no pay at all under horrific conditions. If I can prove any of these then I can show that this is an unconstitutional program and it should not be implamented as a result.

I have already shown the horrific styles of payment and the simple fact that they are forced to stay in this program in itself is pratically slavery since they are forced to live in poverty and this continual system of poverty means that they have to continue this system. Never being able to escape it. If someone tries to leave workfare, they are then hit with hard benefit sanctions and will completely loose all benefits with the IRS at their doors. [5] They are pratically threw out back on the streets and most of the time being worse off then you originally were. Here we can already see that this is forced labor with people having no control over their lives. This is almost already slavery in it's own argument.

Sources
1. (http://falseeconomy.org.uk...)
2. ibid
3. (https://kenanmalik.wordpress.com...)
4. (http://www.bbc.co.uk...)
5. (http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com...)
Debate Round No. 1
ajthenoob

Pro

Looks like I was uneducated on this one. I cede all arguments except for the fact that it is slavery, because no one is forced into workfare. With slavery people are forced into something, and when presented with an option not to work, they can take it. They can look for actual jobs.
lannan13

Con

My opponent has conceded. I thank him for his time.
Debate Round No. 2
ajthenoob

Pro

ajthenoob forfeited this round.
lannan13

Con

All points extended.
Debate Round No. 3
ajthenoob

Pro

ajthenoob forfeited this round.
lannan13

Con

All points extended.
Debate Round No. 4
ajthenoob

Pro

ajthenoob forfeited this round.
lannan13

Con

All points extended.

Thank you and please vote Con.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
If this is a Workfare debate, I'll take Con on this. Send me the challenge.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by EverlastingMoment 1 year ago
EverlastingMoment
ajthenooblannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: As pro conceded the debate con wins arguments.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
ajthenooblannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession.
Vote Placed by NothingSpecial99 1 year ago
NothingSpecial99
ajthenooblannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con had sources, Pro forfeited most rounds and conceded most arguments.