The Instigator
katieJ8
Pro (for)
Losing
19 Points
The Contender
actorgurl
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

Abortion Is Not Birth Control.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/16/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,309 times Debate No: 1865
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (20)
Votes (13)

 

katieJ8

Pro

Though I agree with Abortion I do not agree that it should be used as a form of birth control. If some idiot teenager forgets to use a condom they should not have the option of abortion. They can keep it or give it away. Now if a woman is raped or there are special circumstances then it should be an option. I know I am straddling the fence on this issue but this is how I see it. I believe in using abortion responsibly. Every life is precious so we should be thoughtful of how we treat it.
actorgurl

Con

To start out with, I will say that I am completely anti-abortion. Believing that teenagers should not be having sex period, therefore not getting themselves in that position, I do agree that abortion should not be offered for anyone that young. I also believe that you saying that "every life is precious and we should be thoughtful of how we treat it" and when you said that you "believe in using abortion responsibly" sounds like you are contradicting yourself. When you look at it simply, abortion is murder. Period, there is no way around it. It is killing a living human being, and it makes it worse since this little human had no choice in the matter. Take for example a woman who is rapped. She had no choice to get rapped, but if she did get pregnant, why should she put the baby through the same exact pain of having no choice in ANYTHING? At least the woman has a fight she can put up, but what does the baby have? Nothing. I think about the only thing that is really confusing about your argument is that you said you were for abortion, but then your last sentence said that every life is precious. First you basically said murdering was ok, then your saying every life is precious. I really don't see how that fits together.
Debate Round No. 1
katieJ8

Pro

I believe life is precious but I also understand that killing is necessary in life. Life. Not every life but life itself. It shouldn't just be cast aside like nothing. A woman who is raped and decides to abort understands the choice she is making. A teen oopsie does not. My point is that though it is a woman's choice it is not a convenience. To many people see it that way who are pro-choice. I don't. The children we bare as women are the future. We must understand that like the children we raise the choice to have a baby or not is part of what will become our future. It should be an easy way out but it is a way out. We have the right to choose as women.
actorgurl

Con

Ok, yes, killing is necessary, but only because we have cold blooded killers out in this world. Let's look at simple logistics here for a minute. Why is there a death penalty set down in our court systems? Because yes, killing is necessary for people who for example are serial killers. They should be killed off instantly. That is why killing is necessary. But not for a poor little baby who has no choice in the matter whether or not they were created. Just for example, what would happen if every single person who murdered someone was instantly put to death themselves? That would mean that every single abortionist would be put to the death penalty because what are they doing? They are MURDERING innocent little humans who cannot even attempt to get away. There is no way to get around it, abortion is murder, period. I guess the only thing that kind of does not make sense about your last argument is that you said that "[a life] should not just be cast aside like nothing." Well, in the scenario with the teenager, your basically saying that should happen. But in the case with the woman who gets rapped, your saying that the alternative other than "casting it aside" should be ultimate death? Besides the fact that there are many adoption agencies out there, how would that be casting them aside? There are plenty of couples out there who would love to have a baby, but for one reason or another the woman can not get pregnant, so therefore thier only option is to adopt. That is where the children should go if their birth mother does not want them. Not to mention, how do you know for a 100% fact that a teenager amy not understand just as much if not more the decision about abortion? Yes, the children we bare are the future. But how do you know that that one child put to instant death before it even left its mothers womb was going to come up with the cure for the common cold, or for cancer, or HIV and AIDS? Yes, you could also say "well how do you know that maybe they would be the next Hitler?" The answer to both those questions is you really don't know until you let it happen. If one of those babies would have been the next Hitler, then yes, ultimate death, but only IF it would get to that point. It is our right as women to choose, but it should also be our JOB as mothers, the PROTECTORS of out babies, to protect them from harm-----including death.
Debate Round No. 2
katieJ8

Pro

It's nor murder. Murder is different than killing. Are the doctors who inject the convicts murders? In the pureste sense of the word, yes. Now I'm not comparing unborn children to convicts. That was just an example. But we're getting off topic. My debate is that abortion should not be used as a form of birth control like it is for most young women who have unplanned pregnancies. I am not debating the rightness of abortion just it's uses. Young women stupid enough to get pregnant don't seem to understand what they have created. A baby is not a consequence. It is a life. Now I understand you don't think abortion is right. That is your opinion. Good for you. Its not mine. Abortion should not be an easy way out but it should be a choice for someone who emotionally or physically need it. If they don't want the baby then give it up for adoption. I have an aunt who cannot have children so she and my uncle adopted two beautiful boys and I think the Universe for them every day. The oldest one was the son of a young woman who made a mistake. She chose to live with that mistake and have him. This is my point. She made the choice.
Despite the long standing taboo, sex is not wrong. But if you are going to have it take the time to make sure you don't screw up someones life or soon to be life. There are other, preemptive choices.
actorgurl

Con

First of all, just to clarify, I would like to post that actual meaning to a few terms here.

MURDER: Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).

DELIBERATION: Thoughtfulness in decision or action.

PREMEDITATION: Law. sufficient forethought to impute deliberation and intent to commit the act.

KILLING: To put to death.

BIRTH CONTROL: Regulation of the number of children born through the deliberate control or prevention of conception.

All of these were found on dictionary.com which was last updated in 2006. As you can see here, the word killing means "to put to death." The word murder means "the killing of another human." They are the same thing which therefore shows that abortion IS murder. Also, birth control means "prevention of conception." If a woman is pregnant, then the baby has already been conceived, therefore, abortion could not be a form of birth control. The doctors who kill convicts are killing them for a specific reason, the ones who kill the babies are killing just for the reason that the mother basically wanted to have fun without the consequences. You also said in your argument that "if they don't want the baby then give it up for adoption." That is practically contradicting what you have said before. About the whole thing that you said about taking the time to make sure you don't screw up other lives, that is what condoms are for. Plain and simple. If the woman does not want to get pregnant, then she should either choose to abstain until she knows she is ready for a child, or to make sure the guy is wearing a condom that has not been tampered with. That is her responsibility, and if she is stupid enough to not use her head, then she should not have the option for abortion. Even though you say it should not be used as an easy way out, it is used for that more than anything. Women should either stay protected if they don't want the baby, or they should HAVE to go through the whole 9 months of pregnancy. Having abortion as an option period tells women "Hey you can have fun all you want, not be the responsible adult you should be, and if you end up pregnant, you just kill the baby." It sounds harsh, but it is true. Knowing that abortion IS an option tells women they can have fun, and then they don't have to live with the consequences of their actions. That is not mature at all. The mature and adult thing to do is either stay protected or abstain.

So to conclude my argument, abortion IS the killing of an innocent child that has no say whatsoever of what happens to THEIR body, it cannot be considered a birth control at all, since the woman has already conceived, and abortion should not be an option, because as my opponent has stated in her argument, there are adoption agencies out there that will take the baby, therefore NOT just "casting aside the newborn humans."
Debate Round No. 3
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
Kvaughan,

by your explanation a PARENT could kill a newborn child if they wished. Do you agree with this?
Posted by kvaughan 9 years ago
kvaughan
goldspurs; I agree that the problem of infanticide is a real one, but not entirely unsolvable.

First, a newborn is not a person by any definition of the terms, so unless you offer a better definition, we are forced to bite the bullet

Second, we could not wantonly kill babies because the parents have rights over them which would prevent this.

Third, I wouldn't justify killing animals for no good reason, so I wouldn't justify killing babies.
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
Kvaughan,

by your definition a newborn baby is no diffrent than an animal. Are you suggesting we be allowed to kill infants?

Why don't you explain to me what gives a newborn baby the right to live and not one in the womb.
Posted by kvaughan 9 years ago
kvaughan
actorgirl: I watched the video and if the pictures are real, it does a fine job of demonstrating that a fetus looks like one might expect a baby to look like.

My objection, however, is not concerned with what the baby LOOKS like. I'd love to hear you explain what you think constitutes the definition for a 'person' because any such definition is either going to include animals as people or admit that the fetus is not a person.
Posted by actorgurl 9 years ago
actorgurl
The above is a link to a 4:31 video on youtube. Yes it says,
"Pro-life Anti-Abortion Video: Development of the Unborn Baby", but it litterally shouws pictures and sonograms of babies starting when they are first concieved and what they look like through out the entire 9 months of being in the mothers' womb. If this doens't prove to at least some of you that a fetus is a living human being inside a mothers' womb, then I don't really know what will.
Posted by kvaughan 9 years ago
kvaughan
goldspurs: it has nothing to do with being aware, it has everything to do with the possession of the abilities that separate humans from animals. A fetus doesn't have these, so it's not a person

actorgurl: I'd love to see the evidence for that, but even so, it doesn't matter unless you think these abilities constitute personhood.
Posted by actorgurl 9 years ago
actorgurl
Actually, if you want to look at sonograms, you can tell an unborn child knows a little bit about itself simply because it will hlod its feet or suck its thumbs. Sometimes they even laugh, burp, or giggle inside the womb, so they unborn child knows some stuff
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
So you are telling me a baby knows thats its a baby? Can you prove that unborn babies are not aware at all? I believe it is aware to an extent. Because a newborn child is more cognitive than an unborn child does not give you the right to kill it.
Posted by kvaughan 9 years ago
kvaughan
goldenspurs: To distinguish what humanness is, we probably want to define it in terms that are not possessed by animals, because if the things yo listed were necessary and sufficient conditions for personhood, then animals are people.

I'm inclined to think that something cognitive defines personhood and a fetus does not have this cognitive development.
Posted by audraxheartsxyou 9 years ago
audraxheartsxyou
how are you in favor for abortion but against late-term abortion, katieJ??
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