The Instigator
Marine_to_be
Pro (for)
Losing
31 Points
The Contender
qwerty15ster
Con (against)
Winning
37 Points

Abortion Is *WRONG*

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/2/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,565 times Debate No: 3035
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (20)

 

Marine_to_be

Pro

how can anyone say today with the medical capabilities we have today that with pics and stuff we can take that abortion should be legal.
-The BABY inside of that womb should atleast be givin a fair chance at life
-it is completely unethical
-the baby never did anything to hurt anyone
-there is a long waiting list to adobt a baby so instead of aborting give it a chance and adobt it
-women after abortion often have mental prob.
-think about it as if your parents would have said that we werent ready for you so lets have an abortion. and you wouldnt be debating me right now
-we are killing the worlds pos. next leader
-parents faults why should baby pay
qwerty15ster

Con

First of all, I thank my opponent for this debate. With that, lets gets started.

So first what we need to see is that my opponents resolution states that abortion is wrong, not in certain instances, but always. This means that my opponent needs to prove that abortion is wrong in every single way. My opponent is also at a disadvantage in that he needs to prove that abortion should be illegal. He needs to prove this because:
1. He brought up this debate topic
2. He is arguing for a change in the status quo, thus presumption falls to the con because if he cant prove why the status quo should be changed, I win.

Lets go on to my opponents case.....

"The BABY inside of that womb should at least be givin a fair chance at life"

--Every definition I could for 'baby', even medical and legal definitions, basically entitled the word infant or young person. So lets define the word infant....

infant-a child during the earliest period of its life, esp. before he or she can walk; baby. ---from dictionary.com

Thus, my opponents argument falls because clearly it has to be a child that is already born. So babies already have a shot at life.

"-it is completely unethical"

--Proof please..... or at the very least.... some logic behind this....

"the baby never did anything to hurt anyone"

--Its not a baby, see argument one.

"there is a long waiting list to adobt a baby so instead of aborting give it a chance and adobt it"

--My opponent has no proof that there is a long waiting list, and again its not a baby.

"-women after abortion often have mental prob."

--Really? Have any proof for that? Any substantial statistics? And if that were true.... why would they do it if it made them go crazy?

"-think about it as if your parents would have said that we werent ready for you so lets have an abortion. and you wouldnt be debating me right now"

--Completely irrelevant.... This has nothing to do with the fact that abortion might be wrong.

"-we are killing the worlds pos. next leader"

--First of all, you cant kill what isnt alive. Secondly, we also may be stopping the worlds next potential hitler or bush. Which is more likely. And would be a good thing.

"-parents faults why should baby pay"

--Parents fault? It was the girls fault that someone raped her? Nice call.... Go tell her that, see how she reacts... And again, it isnt a baby....

With my opponents case being taken care of.... I will move on to one more argument.....

I notice in my opponents profile that he is a male. Why should a male be making choices for females? They shouldnt. At the very least, the choice should always be left up to the woman. Lest our male dominated society of the past comes back to haunt us.... Which is what my opponent is arguing.

With that, I await my opponents rebuttal....
Debate Round No. 1
Marine_to_be

Pro

Ok so if you would like to call it a fetus i am ok with that. However a fetis is still alive it has a heart beat and is a living being. so i will change it to the fetus inside the woman should have the same chance at life that you and i did.

Ok ethically this would fall under the same thing as my last argument. that the baby should have a chance. And ethicaly who are we to say who lives or dies.

Ok unlike hardend criminal sitting on death row (which i am also against but diff. topic) the LIVING fetus never did anything to hurt anybody, never commited a crime.

ok the correct term is post abortion stress syndrome and almost all women that have abortions go through this some is worse then others. and they think they can handle it they tell themselves that they can do it. and they cant

"First of all, you cant kill what isnt alive"
...Once again after the first couple weeks it is alive with a heartbeat so yess it would be killing it.

You brought up the famous "rape" excuse so your saying because a woman was raped and concieved that it is ok to commit murder and murder is defined as "kill intentionally and with premeditation" and once again it is living with a heartbeat so it is intentonal and pemeditated. and once again just adobt it is much better then taking a life.

"I notice in my opponents profile that he is a male. Why should a male be making choices for females? They shouldnt. At the very least, the choice should always be left up to the woman. Lest our male dominated society of the past comes back to haunt us.... Which is what my opponent is arguing. "

so your saying that i should have no say in my childs life before it is born... however if i were to think that she should have abortion and she dosent i still have to pay child support. they are half my blood so yes as a male i should have a say in what a woman does. if it was just to her body then i see your point but its 2 bodies not 1 so i do get a say. thats like saying the gov. should not be able to tell you you cant murder someone cause thats solely your decision.

So far you have given two pros to abortion whereas i have give multiple. you are trying to prove my responses wrong but you arent giving proof for your argument.
qwerty15ster

Con

Ok, so to start.... I will show how my opponent has granted me the win in this debate.....

"..Once again after the first couple weeks it is alive with a heartbeat so yess it would be killing it."

--My opponent states that only after the first couple weeks does it have a heartbeat and is it alive. So in the first couple weeks, before a heart has formed, under my opponents own definition mind you, abortion is ok. My opponent dropped my argument that he must prove that abortion is wrong in every single instance possible. Thus, he agrees with it. So abortion is ok before the heart has formed.

In addition to that..........

"So far you have given two pros to abortion whereas i have give multiple. you are trying to prove my responses wrong but you arent giving proof for your argument."

--My opponent also states that there are 2 pros for abortion. Again, he must prove that abortion can never be justified, and he said that there 2 good things about abortion, that is 2 reasons to vote for me as he has conceded that abortion is ok for 2 reasons. So add that to my earlier one, and you have 3 reasons that my opponent has stated that abortion isn't wrong....

With that.... lets go back to debating....

Ok, so his first 2 paragraphs deal with the ethics of abortion.... and he states that the baby (now fetus i guess) should have a chance at life.

Ignoring the fact that the fetus doenst become a fetus until 8 weeks have passed.... My opponent is seeming to argue that because it has a working heart, it deserves to live. However, my opponent simply misses the fact that a heart beat alone cannot define life. There has to be a certain level of consciousness that occurs to really live. simply having a heart beat does not cut it. For example, why should someone who cant do ANYTHING, but does have a heartbeat, consume the things that actual living people, who can do things deserve. Why should they get it and let the rest of the people starve? I would call that unethical, so simply having a heartbeat doesnt cut it.

Also with this, there are 2 'humans' involved in this. The fetus, and the woman. Why should the woman go through all that trouble for something she doesn't want? One can't argue that she isn't living and doesn't deserve anything. Not to mention, the baby when born, will probably be worse off if the mother doesn't want it. He may bring up the option of adoption, however he has failed to bring up any evidence supporting his claim. So basically, the fetus deserves a chance, but the woman doesn't deserve what she wants.

You can extend these arguments for his 3rd paragraph too...

"ok the correct term is post abortion stress syndrome and almost all women that have abortions go through this some is worse then others. and they think they can handle it they tell themselves that they can do it. and they cant"

--Ok, again I am sitting here waiting for evidence to support this claim.... He has brought up no numbers at all. And the burden of proof rests with him as this is his argument.

"You brought up the famous "rape" excuse so your saying because a woman was raped and concieved that it is ok to commit murder and murder is defined as "kill intentionally and with premeditation" and once again it is living with a heartbeat so it is intentonal and pemeditated. and once again just adobt it is much better then taking a life."

--So my opponent uses law definitions here to define murder, however he fails to realize that the law agrees with me on this issue. Abortion is legal now, and they don't define it as murder. You can also extend what I said earlier about the 'living' part.

"so your saying that i should have no say in my childs life before it is born... however if i were to think that she should have abortion and she dosent i still have to pay child support. they are half my blood so yes as a male i should have a say in what a woman does. if it was just to her body then i see your point but its 2 bodies not 1 so i do get a say. thats like saying the gov. should not be able to tell you you cant murder someone cause thats solely your decision."

--Granted the male did half the work to make it. But it is the female that has ALL the work from now on to deliver. And the fetus cannot survive without her. It is her body that keeps it alive. Not the males. This is for the female to decide because it is her body, not his. If she doesnt want to go through pregnancy, the male might want to consider impregnating someone else if they really want a son or daughter.

My opponent ends his speech by saying that I have yet to give any proof for my argument, I find this ironically hypocritical seeing as he is the one to start this debate and he hasn't provided ANY evidence himself. As the pro and arguing against the status quo, he has failed to prove that the status quo is unacceptable. Thus, presumption falls to the con.

With that, I await my opponents final rebuttal.
Debate Round No. 2
Marine_to_be

Pro

Marine_to_be forfeited this round.
qwerty15ster

Con

Well that is too bad. I was hoping to finish this debate. O well. You can extend everything I said. A woman should have her right to choose since it is her body. The fetus cannot yet be considered true life. And even if it was, my opponent grants me that in the first seven weeks, when it doesnt have a heart, it isn't living. He needed to prove that it is is wrong (or should be illegal) in every instance. He did not. It isn't murder and he did not prove the status quo to be horrible. There is no need for change. I thank my opponent and hope that the voters vote on the debate, not on opinions, and they read the whole thing. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by phatso86 8 years ago
phatso86
"This is for the female to decide because it is her body, not his. If she doesnt want to go through pregnancy, the male might want to consider impregnating someone else if they really want a son or daughter"

i love this statement for two reasons:
1) the government DOES decide what you can and can't do to your body. So in this regard, the "con" idiot failed to address.
2) a woman, here's a big one, ***CANNOT*** abort after a given amount of weeks(dependant on where you are). Past that point, it is, another big one, ****ILLEGAL**** to KILL your child even though it is still inside the woman (brings me back to the first item, the government DOES decide what people can do to their bodies)

another point, there are single celled creature called algea.
They are SINGLE CELLED, meaning there is no heartbeat, no brain waves, no emotions, EVER.
yet all scientists agree that they are, third big one, unanimously considered *****LIVING BEINGS*****
so the arguement about a embryo/fetus not being a living entity? That FAILED too, horribly.
Posted by smith76 8 years ago
smith76
<< if you punch a pregnant woman or even have an accident that causes her to lose her "not alive yet fetus" then you will be up for manslaughter sorry to tell you.>>

This is completely false, maybe in some states (example: In New York State, causing the death of a fetus while in the womb is known as, "Falsely Aborted" and is a Class D Felony, maybe 2 years in pricon, not manslaughter), but accross the United States, there is no law that states this. Please provide factual proof for this assertion nex time.
Posted by Anonymous 8 years ago
Anonymous
I can't believe that people have the nerve to pretend that abortion is not murder. IT is the willful taking of a life, and by the way, if you punch a pregnant woman or even have an accident that causes her to lose her "not alive yet fetus" then you will be up for manslaughter sorry to tell you.

But keep lying to yourselves people.
Posted by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
I am up for the same debate if you'd like to send me one Marine to be?
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