The Instigator
ShakespeareGirl
Pro (for)
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The Contender
G131994
Con (against)
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Abortion Is Wrong

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/4/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,127 times Debate No: 32075
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

ShakespeareGirl

Pro

Abortion Is Wrong

Here is the layout of the debate:
Round 1: definition, clearly state points (without links yet, there must be 3),

Round 2: Contractict opponent's point. Go into further detail of first point. Give hiperthetical examples and life examples.

Round 3: "

Round 4: "

Round 5: Conclude, give a brief sum up of your arguements and a breif contracticion to your opponent's arguement. Another definition. State here you stand clealy.


My Arguement:

a·bor·tion
/əˈbôrSHən/
Noun
  1. The deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.
  2. A miscarriage.
Synonyms
miscarriage - failure


1. Abortion is murder
2. Abortion shows weakness
3. Abortion doesn't help anyone

I strongly believe that abortion is wrong
G131994

Con

I am not going to argue that abortion should be widely available however it should not totally be illegal and should be available in special circumstances as out lined below.

If the baby is deformed to the point where the life expectancy is below a year.

A rape victim should not be forced to have a baby she has not planned for especially if she is under age.

If there is a significant risk of the mother dying during child birth.

These will be my main points.
Debate Round No. 1
ShakespeareGirl

Pro

My first point is that abortion is murder.
Conditional abortion is like conditional murder

The main reason people will get an abortion is if they didn't take precautions. They then have a baby.

This baby has to be looked after by someone, there are 3 main things you can do:
1: get an abortion
2: have someone look after it (your parents, adoption, foster)
3: look after it yourself.

A some family friends of mine moved to America so that they could adopt (because she couldn't conceive) and they adopted the child of an 18 year old, who decided not to murder.

Parents now are pressuring mothers to abort. They aren't many people once you've become pregnant as a teen who wouldn't tell you to have an abortion.
G131994

Con

Every day 3780 abortions are carried out worldwide to prevent the mother experiencing a unacceptably high chance of death to herself or the child during birth, 1260 are carried out to prevent the mother giving birth to a product of rape.

Yes the main reason abortion is used is as an alternative to contraception and yes abortion in these circumstances should be banned however as pointed out in my argument there are cases where abortion is the ONLY option and therefore should not be banned or the action in theses situations labelled as ""wrong"" especially if the women has conceived whilst being raped.

Furthermore you have stated no justification to say why abortion in this context should be labelled wrong.
Debate Round No. 2
ShakespeareGirl

Pro

If the chances of death are high then, I suppose I can see your point. But, high chance of death doesn't mean death and abortion does. If 3780 mothers abort (or kill) their unborn children everyday that means every year 1,379,700 are killed, just for one reason. That surely speaks for itself.

It's interesting how you talk about unborn babies as a product. If a woman is raped it is still her child. To keep a child against what society will tell you to do shows strength. Also, some people claim to be raped. 1 in 10 women claimed to be raped. Should we believe them all? Can they all have abortions? I'm just going to mention "To Kill A Mockingbird" by Harper Lee. Did you know that most rapes don't lead to pregnancy? Some people claim 5-10%, which according to one article is absurd. (http://www.christianliferesources.com...)

Every year 55 million children are aborted. 1% is due to rape. Only 8% are due to lack of maturity. 7% is due to health issues.
The primary causes are:
-Bad timing (27%)
-Can't afford a baby (25%)
-Finished with childbearing (20%)
While all of those may seem like good reasons, this person has still made decisions which lead to them falling pregnant.
What if a mother was raped and was going to have her child, but then found out it was the wrong gender? Would that be okay? What if she wanted a girl and would go through life threatening situations to get it, then got a boy?
Abortion shows weakness.
Weakness:
the state or quality of being weak; lack of strength, firmness, vigor, or the like; feebleness.
A lack of strength, firmness and vigor.
Abortion is 'The easy way out'
If you have a strong love for your child you will not abort. If you have a strong determination to persevere you will not abort. It is as simple as that. Abortion is based on weakness.
Abortion shouldn't be put in pretty packaging, they should say what it is, the murder of unborn babies.
G131994

Con

""It's interesting how you talk about unborn babies as a product"" definition of product is "" A direct result; a consequence ""http://www.thefreedictionary.com... the fertilised egg existed was a direct result of the women being raped therefore the description "" a product of rape is perfectly valid"".

"" 1 in 10 women claimed to be raped. Should we believe them all?"" unless you provide any reliable evidence to the contrary which you have not. Why should we not believe them ?

"" Did you know that most rapes don't lead to pregnancy"" Yes. As already established one per cent of abortions are due to rape using your figures 550,000 a year I believe that is a significant amount.

You say ""Abortion shows weakness. Weakness: the state or quality of being weak; lack of strength, firmness, vigor, or the like; feebleness .A lack of strength, firmness and vigor."". http://www.ndtv.com... This article tells of how a 13 year old girl was repeatedly rape and then became pregnant and yet you call her weak and say she is taking the easy way out. After what that girl has been through is it right to her against her will and disregard the serious health implications.

"" If you have a strong love for your child you will not abort. If you have a strong determination to persevere you will not abort"" how can a victim of rape love something that they had no wish to have that was forced on them against their will and human rights .
"" What if a mother was raped and was going to have her child, but then found out it was the wrong gender? "" I think it would be a horrific idea to try to and hold an inquest in to the motives of a person who has just had one of the most traumatic experiences of there life.

Abortion due to Bad timing, Can't afford a baby, Finished with childbearing should all be banned but that is not the argument you say that all abortions are wrong including those that are carried out after rape or for medical reasons. Your position is clearly immoral and wrong you say yourself "" chances of death are high then, I suppose I can see your point"".

"" Abortion shouldn't be put in pretty packaging, they should say what it is, the murder of unborn babies"" definition of murder is ""The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being"" In the majority of the world"s countries abortion is legal in some form . Therefore your statement is totally false and you have provided no evidence to support your statement.
Debate Round No. 3
ShakespeareGirl

Pro

ShakespeareGirl forfeited this round.
G131994

Con

Since my opponent has not made any new points I have no rebuttals to make therefore I will reiterate my points.

1)A mother who is at a high risk of death during the birth should not be Forced to sacrifice herself in order to give birth.

2)If prior screening has determined the baby is likely to be still born or die in a very short period after the birth it is unacceptable to force the mother to go through with the pregnancy.

3)A victim of rape no matter what age should be forced to have a baby they conceived through no fault or action of their own.
Debate Round No. 4
ShakespeareGirl

Pro

To start this round off may I ask you a question?
What would have happened if your mother aborted you?

You told us about the 13 year old girl who was raped, did she do anything particularly strong or brave? She probably did what most of us would do, scream.
It's not that she herself was weak, but that her actions showed weakness.

You say I can't question the motives of someone who has been through traumatic experiences? Hitler contracted a quite serious disease when he was younger. People question his motives. To imply that people who have had traumatic experiences always have good motives is a false claim.

Abortion doesn't do anyone any good.
Initially it seems like a quite bold claim. But do you think that a fraction of your life is more important than someone's whole life.
Children bring so many people joy. Mothers are scared of miscarriages and there are people giving it to their own child.

Supporting any part of abortion is wrong. Calling me immoral for saying people matter is wrong.
It's already legal in too many places.
G131994

Con

You say her actions, not her were weak however as Thomas Jefferson once said "" Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will delineate and define you."" Your actions are what makes you you and me me. By saying her actions were weak you imply she herself was weak. I will not accept this argument.

""Abortion doesn't do anyone any good."" That is a lie as highlighted in this article (http://www.independent.ie...) "Three abortions were carried out at Holles Street last year to save women's lives." Three abortion in one city in one hospital in one country on one continent had to be carried out to save the mother"s life. Clearly proving your statement ""Abortion doesn't do anyone any good."" is a lie and you have provided no evidence to back it up whatsoever.

""You say I can't question the motives of someone who has been through traumatic experiences"" If a women was raped she should be allowed to decide if it is right for her or not to carry on with the pregnancy. Who are you or me to say to a women "" although you did not plan for this , want this , are far below the legal age for sexual activity you must have this baby even if it puts your life at risk ?"" That is a decision for the mother and the mother only.

"" Calling me immoral for saying people matter is wrong"" Please quote me as I did not say such a thing and is yet another unsupported lie. I called you immoral for forcing a rape victim or a women who has a server risk of death during pregnancy to go through with the pregnancy. This approach totally flies in the face of your argument ""abortion preserves life"".

All countries in the world reach their own independent laws on matters such as abortion. To create the laws they take into account all the facts from a verity of experts and out of nearly 200 countries only 6 have banned outright abortion in their countries clearly showing most experts from around the world see a place for abortion in our society.

To summaries

1)A mother who is at a high risk of death during the birth should not be forced to sacrifice herself in order to give birth.

2)If prior screening has determined the baby is likely to be still born or die in a very short period after the birth it is unacceptable to force the mother to go through with the pregnancy.

3)A victim of rape no matter what age should be forced to have a baby they conceived through no fault or action of their own.

Thank you for a great debate.

Vote Con
Debate Round No. 5
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by G131994 3 years ago
G131994
Why does a child weep for a dead pet? does not prove the animal was human.
Posted by ShakespeareGirl 3 years ago
ShakespeareGirl
If what you say is true why does a pregnant lady weep for a miscarried baby?
Posted by elvroin_vonn_trazem 3 years ago
elvroin_vonn_trazem
Your mere (implied) claim that unborn humans are somehow more than "mere animals" is worthless without supporting evidence. And there is NO such evidence; therefore unborn humans are indeed mere animals, not people. So, please stop lying about "murder", because that word only applies to killing people, not animals. For evidence, when was the last time someone who swatted a mosquito was put on trial for murder?

Meanwhile, it is VERY possible that if a flying saucer landed, and some very-ugly intelligent nonhuman alien started walking peacefully down the ramp, but was killed by some stupidly prejudiced fearful human with a gun, that human WOULD be put on trial for murder. The concept of "person" is totally distinct from the concept of "human", got it?

So, I don't lie about unborn humans, and I don't need to respect them as I respect rather-older humans, because the unborn are indeed nothing more than mere animals. And they do indeed dump their toxic metabolic biowastes into the bloodstreams of their hosts! It is very simple.

In case you didn't know, it can be as much as a year AFTER birth before a human starts exhibiting characteristics that can typically distinguish persons from mere animals. Here is one such test:
http://www.brighthubeducation.com...

There are other tests, and humans pass them at different numbers of months AFTER birth, so, overall, logically, the tests mean that CERTAINLY before birth, humans are nothing more than mere animals.
Posted by ShakespeareGirl 3 years ago
ShakespeareGirl
Firstly, where I live you can't 'pull the plug' on 'mere animals'. I'd also like to say that you have very little respect for people, toxic waste? Mere animal?

Please read my next argument and see what you think. Part of my point is that abortion has been sugar coated.
Posted by elvroin_vonn_trazem 3 years ago
elvroin_vonn_trazem
(ran out of space in my other comment)

Regarding "abortion doesn't help anyone" --that's an outright LIE. It helps the woman who no longer has nutrients and minerals (especially calcium) sucked from her body, and no longer has toxic biowastes dumped into her bloodstream, and no longer has addictive drugs also dumped into her bloodstream --"postpartum depression" is actually the withdrawal symptoms of those drugs, HCG and progesterone. Obviously the withdrawal symptoms also happen if a miscarriage occurs, or an abortion is done, but they can be minimized by getting an abortion as soon as possible after an unwanted pregnancy is discovered.
Posted by elvroin_vonn_trazem 3 years ago
elvroin_vonn_trazem
And here we have another person who doesn't know the difference between "person" and "mere animal". The reason abortion is NOT murder is because it kills a mere animal, not a person. The reason it is legal to "pull the plug" keeping a brain-dead adult human body alive is because the PERSON is already dead; the mere living animal body is NOT the person!

As a variation on that theme, imagine a slightly advanced medical technology that can save your life if someone cuts your head off. They could put your head into a "regeneration vat" to let it grow a new body, or they could put your body into such a vat to grow a new head. Which would YOU prefer? Your MIND is what makes you a person, and so you should want your head saved; your body is irrelevant to the definition of "person"! And so, since unborn humans don't have person-class minds (they only and MEASURABLY have mere-animal-level minds), they are not persons, and so killing one is less murderous than killing a hog (a quite-smart animal).

"Abortion shows weakness" --IRRELEVANT. Eating somewhat excessively shows weakness, too, but that fact hasn't stopped the majority of Americans from becoming somewhat overweight. We have Freedon to make various Choices in this country. Some are more detrimental than others, certainly. But because an abortion is an interaction between a person and a mere animal, instead of an interaction between persons, that is why killing can be part of the interaction. If an unwanted rat gets into your house, do you kill it or try to put it out and keep it from coming back in (good luck with that!)? So, if an unwanted human gets into your body, what is the difference, BESIDES WORTHLESS PREJUDICE?
Posted by G131994 3 years ago
G131994
1260 a day word wide.
Irrelevant of the percentage it is still an abortion and should not be labelled as wrong.
Posted by ShakespeareGirl 3 years ago
ShakespeareGirl
Do you mean if a woman is raped an becomes pregnant? A. It's still killing the baby. B. what percentage of abortions are rapes?
Posted by G131994 3 years ago
G131994
not if she is already pregnant because the baby is not a product of rape.
Posted by littledude506 3 years ago
littledude506
Say that the pregnant women was raped? Then is it okay?
No votes have been placed for this debate.