The Instigator
ChristianPunk
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
OtakuJordan
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

Abortion:Legal?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
OtakuJordan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/5/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 488 times Debate No: 41736
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

ChristianPunk

Pro

This will be for us to debate if we think abortion should be legal or not and what things we can bring to the table to back up our statements. Accept if you wish to debate.

Summary: I believe abortion should be one of our free will choices and rights.
OtakuJordan

Con

I accept. Thank you for challenging me, Pro.

Please state your case.
Debate Round No. 1
ChristianPunk

Pro

Now then. The idea of abortion is to save those who don't need to give birth. If you illegalize abortion, then a 5 year old is going to have a baby. That can be extremely painful, if not deadly. Young people are becoming parents. Even those below the age of 12. I don't support murder if any form of Ad Hominem is used in that way. I've never been told if a fetus is alive or not. Either way, one dead child who hasn't come into the world yet doesn't compare to the millions of lives we lose a day in this world. Hundreds die in America alone a day. Murders, rapes, gang violence, and suicide. Abortion is nothing more than a way to let people have a choice to young people. Suffer or pssible die from giving birth. OR have a chance to live so that maybe you can give birth to more babies later on. The youngest person to have a child is a girl in Peru who was 5 years old. If you can find one younger, then it proves that people are selfish if they won't allow children the freedom to be away from torture of birth giving. I'm one that says if you are 18 and older, then you should give birth unless your a coward who is scared to raise a child.
OtakuJordan

Con

OtakuJordan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
ChristianPunk

Pro

I give up my second round for you to have a rebuttal
OtakuJordan

Con

My apologies for the forfeit. My Internet service was out due to a snow storm.

My opponent's opening argument was filled with a large amount of rhetoric. The actual content of the speech can be summed up in three points.

1. Women can die if abortion is not allowed.
2. One dead child doesn't compare to the loss of life that occurs every day on planet earth.
3. Abortion is nothing more than a choice.

I shall now respond to these contentions.

Rebuttal #1 - Women can die if abortion is not allowed.
It is true that pregnancy and delivery carry risks of dangerous and sometimes fatal medical complications. To understand why this is not a valid argument for the legalization of abortion, we must define what abortion is. It is the "induced termination of a pregnancy with destruction of the embryo or fetus."[1] (Emphasis mine.)

It is not necessary for a fetus to be destroyed in order to put a stop to the afore-mentioned medical complications. It simply must be removed from the womb. Abortion, properly defined as the intentional destruction of the unborn child, is therefore not necessary to save the woman's life. A viable and more ethical option is to remove the child and work to save the life of both it and the mother.

Rebuttal #2 - One dead child doesn't compare to the loss of life that occurs every day on planet earth.
This may be true, depending on your view of the value of human life, but it is not justification for abortion. Imagine if we applied this reasoning to other areas of ethics. Is it all right to rape someone because one sex crime does not compare to the many sex crimes that occur on planet earth every day? Is it all right for a police officer to sit by while someone is murdered in front of him because many murders happen every day?

Of course not.

Rebuttal #3 - Abortion is nothing more than choice.
Every action we take is a choice, but very rarely is it "just a choice." Because we live in a society, our actions impact the lives of others and have moral repercussions.

My opponent stated that he has never been informed as to whether or not the fetus is alive. It seems strange to me that he formulated an opinion on this topic without that essential knowledge, but I shall overlook that and try to inform him. To quote from another debate of mine:

"
The standard, biology textbook definition of life is 1) the ability to grow and 2) the ability to reproduce.[1] In other words, if something grows and possesses the ability to reproduce at some point in its life cycle (barring some sort of defect), then it is considered by the scientific community to be alive.

By this standard, a fetus can be considered to be a life. But what if we use a more advanced definition such as the one below?



        1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.





        1. Organization: Being structurally composed of one or more cells — the basic units of life.





        1. Metabolism Transformation of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.





        1. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter.





        1. Adaptation: The ability to change over time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity, diet, and external factors.





        1. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of multicellular organisms. A response is often expressed by motion; for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototroism), and chemotaxis.





        1. Reproduction: The ability to produce new individual organisms, either asexually from a single parent organism, or sexually from two parent organisms.[2][3]



Once again, the fetus meets all the criteria for life.

However, this is somewhat irrelevant. After all, bacteria and blades of grass are also alive, and we feel no moral qualms about killing them. Why, then, is a fetus different? Put simply, because it is a human life. By definition, a product of reproduction is of the same kind as its 'parents.'"[4]

Having proved that the fetus is alive, abortion can no longer be viewed as "just a choice" any more than any other choice that ends an innocent life. Any deontological system of ethics demands that we sacrifice to protect and preserve the lives of the innocent.

Sources
1. http://www.merriam-webster.com...
2. http://www2.una.edu...
3. http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu...
4. http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
Debate Round No. 3
ChristianPunk

Pro

First thing before I continue. My step mom was born with a defect that she couldn't have children. I forget what it was and I don't wanna ask her due to it being awkward. But since the definition of life for you is the ability to grow AND reproduce, does that mean she's not alive because you continue to say if something grows and possesses the ability to reproduce at some point in it's life cycle, then it is considered by the scientific community to be alive.

And the fetus may not meet all criteria to life. A fetus can't give birth.

You live in America, where the constitution grants our rights to have certain things. So to say you can't do something because it's morally wrong won't apply to abortions because it has been well thought out and plus religious beliefs are to stay out of abortions due to Seperation of Church and State.

You say is it all right to rape someone because one sex crime doesn't compare to others. No. Because rape is one of the reasons that little girls and others are getting pregnant. Don't believe me, then look at some of the cases shown here. Look em up in seperate sites if you don't trust this source.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I also would like to point out I never said WOMEN can die if abortion is not allowed, but rather GIRLS can die. 5-10 year olds have been recorded giving birth and having the responsibility of being mothers. Would you rather let a 5-10 year old girl die from giving birth so the baby can live? Or let the girl live so she can have MORE babies in the future.
OtakuJordan

Con

My opponent either did not fully read or did not fully comprehend my statements in R3.

"First thing before I continue. My step mom was born with a defect that she couldn't have children. I forget what it was and I don't wanna ask her due to it being awkward. But since the definition of life for you is the ability to grow AND reproduce, does that mean she's not alive because you continue to say if something grows and possesses the ability to reproduce at some point in it's life cycle, then it is considered by the scientific community to be alive.

And the fetus may not meet all criteria to life. A fetus can't give birth."


I did not say that something is alive if it grows and possesses the ability to reproduce, period. I said that if "something grows and possesses the ability to reproduce at some point in its life cycle (barring some sort of defect), then it is considered by the scientific community to be alive."

Your stepmother has a defect which prevents her from reproducing, but that does not mean that she is not alive by the definition that I presented. Also, while it is true that a fetus cannot reproduce it will be able to do so at some point in its life cycle, and so it meets the definition of life.

"
You live in America, where the constitution grants our rights to have certain things. So to say you can't do something because it's morally wrong won't apply to abortions because it has been well thought out and plus religious beliefs are to stay out of abortions due to Seperation of Church and State."

I fail to see how something being "well thought out" excludes it from moral scrutiny. Also, there is a difference between ethics and religion. Opposing abortion on an ethical basis does no violence to the separation of church and state.

"You say is it all right to rape someone because one sex crime doesn't compare to others. No. Because rape is one of the reasons that little girls and others are getting pregnant. Don't believe me, then look at some of the cases shown here. Look em up in seperate sites if you don't trust this source."

I did not say that rape is all right because other sex crimes occur. I said that your argument of "
Either way, one dead child who hasn't come into the world yet doesn't compare to the millions of lives we lose a day in this world" falls prey to reductio ad absurdum because the same sort of thinking you used to justify abortion could be used to justify rape or any other atrocity.

If, in the face of this, you wish to uphold your argument by saying that a rape causes someone to become pregnant and is therefore an atrocity of a higher order, then I can still counter by saying that many other rape victims become pregnant. If you justify an action by other occurrences of that action then anything is permissible.

I would like to point out to the voters that I presented a second analogy (of a police officer standing idly by while a murder is committed in front of him or her) which my opponent did not respond to in any way.

"I also would like to point out I never said WOMEN can die if abortion is not allowed, but rather GIRLS can die. 5-10 year olds have been recorded giving birth and having the responsibility of being mothers. Would you rather let a 5-10 year old girl die from giving birth so the baby can live? Or let the girl live so she can have MORE babies in the future."

My first rebuttal, which you ignored entirely, pointed out that abortion, properly defined, does not save lives. To quote, "It is not necessary for a fetus to be destroyed in order to put a stop to the afore-mentioned medical complications. It simply must be removed from the womb. Abortion, properly defined as the intentional destruction of the unborn child, is therefore not necessary to save the woman's life. A viable and more ethical option is to remove the child and work to save the life of both it and the mother."

Voting points
I will now present several voting points, or things the voters should keep in mind while making their decisions.

1. Pro failed to properly refute my assertion that feti are living humans.
2. Pro completely ignored my first rebuttal.
3. My opponent's argument that "
one dead child who hasn't come into the world yet doesn't compare to the millions of lives we lose a day in this world" falls prey to reductio ad absurdum.

Thank you for debating me, Pro. Best of luck.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by supershamu 2 years ago
supershamu
ChristianPunkOtakuJordanTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: This was a pretty good debate but I think the Con did have more relevant and backed arguments. Defining life and then placing fetuses into the category was very smart and he was very good at responding to the opposing statements. I did see a spelling problem on pro's typing so I gave the point to Con for that
Vote Placed by Silentsvc 2 years ago
Silentsvc
ChristianPunkOtakuJordanTied
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Total points awarded:16