The Instigator
BarbieGirl
Pro (for)
Losing
21 Points
The Contender
revleader5
Con (against)
Winning
30 Points

Abortion and pregnancy

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/23/2007 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,088 times Debate No: 912
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (17)

 

BarbieGirl

Pro

Abortion is a wondrous thing for a woman which, should the situation occur, it will give her a 2nd chance at life. Do you know how hard it is to be pregnant, and how even harder that becomes when you fall pregnant young?
In the catholic religion I understand that abortion is frowned upon, but say for instance, a young woman with high achievements fell pregnant accidentally would you suggest she carry out the pregnancy? Leave behind her studies and her life to have a baby while she herself if still a child? Would you consider it right for a child to be brought up by a child?
revleader5

Con

You are completley right, abortion gives women a 2nd chance at life. Where does that chance come from? It is stolen from the baby by taking its first chance.

I agree that it is very difficult that a woman may need to leave her studies because of a baby. However, it is a choice that the woman makes when she has sex. Even if it was protected, she knows there was a risk. It isn't fair to a baby to be murdered because its SO-CALLED mother wanted to have sex and wasn't careful. If she is raped, I might be able to understand. Any other case, sorry, not the baby's fault.

I think that maybe women have the choice for abortion, but must serve second degree murder charges or something.
Debate Round No. 1
BarbieGirl

Pro

"Where does that chance come from? It is stolen from the baby by taking its first chance."

1. The "baby" is not actually this until it leaves the woman's body, up to which point it is an embryo and therefore a part of the woman's body.

2. If it is a part of the woman's body she should have free choice as to what be done with it, same as she would with her hair or nails.

3. When the woman has sex, she understands the risks. Therefore if it is not her fault for example the condom breaks, why should she spend 18 years of her lie paying for an accident which could be rectified in a few hours?

4. If the young woman was still in her teen years, she is not yet fully matured, mentally or physically. Therefore is it right to allow a minor to bring a child into the world?
revleader5

Con

Let me battle those 4 statements.

HERE ARE YOUR POINTS-1. The "baby" is not actually this until it leaves the woman's body, up to which point it is an embryo and therefore a part of the woman's body.

2. If it is a part of the woman's body she should have free choice as to what be done with it, same as she would with her hair or nails.

3. When the woman has sex, she understands the risks. Therefore if it is not her fault for example the condom breaks, why should she spend 18 years of her lie paying for an accident which could be rectified in a few hours?

4. If the young woman was still in her teen years, she is not yet fully matured, mentally or physically. Therefore is it right to allow a minor to bring a child into the world?

HERE ARE MINE.

1. The embryo is a form of life. If you can sue me for killing a squirrel, I should be able to sue for killing a baby. If I did agree, that it is not yet life, but it will prevent life by taking it out.

2. That is the same thing you said above. And shame on you, comparing a baby to hair and nails????

3. It is not her fault obviously, but she made the choice and understands the risks. In a sense it is her fault, she accepted those consequences, just because she was thinking, "that could never happen to me" doesn't mean she is now invincible when it does happen. I love the spelling error you made with life becoming LIE, because he life does become a lie. She lives with no kids, she had one, that is a lie that she doesn't have kids.

4. You are right a girl who isn't mature shouldn't have a baby. She shouldn't be forced to live with the decision of killing a baby and living with the effects for the rest of her life. This often causes depression in women.
Debate Round No. 2
BarbieGirl

Pro

Firstly, may I thank you for arguing your side so well. I have had to stop and think several times. But to business. Please excuse any errors - my keyboard is quite annoying and doesn't always type what i want it to.

You are against abortion and therefore are debating that it would be a better place if abortion was banned. However, have you considered the consequences of such an action? In 2002, there were 53 pregnancies per 1000 15 - 19 year olds. In July 2007 the american population was over 300 million. At an estimate I would say that a third of that population were adults leaving 200 million minors. For the sake of easy maths we'll say that around 100 million are female. Therefore each year, there would be approximately 530,000 babies being born to teenage girls and 530,000 teenage girls taken out of there education. Imagine this happening to every generation of young women I'm sure you can continue on this method in your head as it could become an evil cycle. Also, would these babies be getting a good quality of life if there mother had to leave education earlier and end up working at Walmart or Asda for the rest of her life, rather than if she had continued on to get degrees in a job she loved. Not only would it leave the mother feeling unfulfilled, it would also cause the child to feel the same. You also noted in your argument that

"She shouldn't be forced to live with the decision of killing a baby and living with the effects for the rest of her life".

Abortion is optional, and therefore is choosen by the woman if she feels like she could live with herself. She isn't forced to live with anything.
You also noted that depression may also occur after abortion, Post abortion syndrome, however, in 80% of cases, the women feel relief. Infact, they were probably more likely to suffer from post-natal depression, therefore leading to possible neglect of their child. Post-natal depression also lasts alot longer, carrying on for months or years whereas Post abortion syndrome last for a matter or weeks. It also would be easier to over come as they would not be caring for a new born child.
You never note, sir, the part the father plays in the non-abortion. Would he leave education as well like the woman would have to? Or would he be given the chance to continue his studies? It would be unfair to strip the mother of her life while the father still has his - it takes 2 to tango. And also sir, if you got a girl pregnant what would be the likely hood of you giving up your education to help take care of you child?

In conclusion, abortion is a good thing for both sides. It allows the woman to carry on with what she wanted to do, perhaps setting up a better life for future children. It has a high success rate and low depression rate - and a quick recovery rate in those who suffer from PAS. It also gives women free will to do what they feel is morally right for themselves.
revleader5

Con

Most women do feel they can live with theirself at first. They normally wouldn't do something they knew would throw them into a depression.

Let me compare abortion to a 15 year old boy commiting a crime. He shot a guy dead. He realized the consequences if he got caught, so why shouldn't he have to go to jail as well a a girl living with the baby? You gave me the condom breaks excuse, well he throws the gun into the Atlantic Ocean and dumps the body in a landfill, he shouldn't have to go to jail because he was SO CAREFUL, right? Wrong.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by decisis 9 years ago
decisis
No, not for a minute. Society contributes but it is not their fault when someone chooses to do something. That's just the easy way out for people to excuse their behavior.
Posted by spencetheguy 9 years ago
spencetheguy
it's societies fault for encouraging younger and younger kids to do things that they aren't mature enough to handle.
Posted by decisis 9 years ago
decisis
I'm declaring Barbie the winner because rev got personal (shame on you??? round 2- hardly professional even if I agree)
Posted by decisis 9 years ago
decisis
This is a complex issue because there are circumstances in which I should not have the right to dictate to a woman what she can or can't do. I oppose abortion because I support life. But sometimes the decision to abort is made in lieue of the woman herself dying or the child being born in a horribly deformed and painful state. Those are hard enough decisions for a woman to make without me trying to tell her what to do.

Blanket statements will never do and until everyone stops having sex befor emarriage, it is an inadequate point. Abortion is not a form of birth control, however, and to say that a child is not human until it is born is to say that poop is not poop until it is in your toilet. There are consequences to sex and only a person who has never seen a baby in the womb would declare it nonhuman. It's like looking at a toy through it's casing and saying it isn't a toy. You have a right to have as much sex as you want, but we must all be careful that supporting abortion doesn't become a justification for having as much sex as we want with whomever we want in whatever way we want without fear of reprisal. Abortion does not erase promiscuity.

Opposing abortion is not sufficient to end it. A woman who is stuck deciding between abortion or bringing a child into a horrible situation is not exercising her freedom to choose. When there are only 2 choices it's not really a choice....it's a dilemma. We should be talking about making adoption easier and condoms better as well as better educating teens about the risks associated with sex and benefits of abstinence.

Well debated though.
Posted by tjzimmer 9 years ago
tjzimmer
What ever happened to taking responsibility for your actions? Life is rough and your choices dictate how rough you will have it. Sex is a choice.
Posted by Sola_Gracia 9 years ago
Sola_Gracia
Tremendoustie is right. The whole point of ANY abortion debate, the point that will tilt the debate to one side, is the question of life. There exists no monetary value and no societal value that can equate to the value of a human life. So points about education, age, freedom of youth, and so forth are irrelevant since LIFE is at stake.
The point used often by pro-abortionists is that the fetus is NOT a unique life until it leaves the body of the mother and that until that point it is part of the mother's body like hair or nails and can be discarded or kept as such. However, the baby at time of conception has a unique DNA sequence from the fusion of the egg and sperm's DNA. Therefore, it cannot be part of the mother's body in the same manner as hair or nails.
Since we see that this creature is now a unique life (as opposed to a part of the mother), I forward a consideration.
Humans have souls, this creature is a human; therefore, this creature has a soul. Given that this creature has committed no crime that one could argue might deserve death by our laws, I cannot see how it would be justifiable to deprive him of life. And I would submit that since he became a unique human at conception, he gained his soul at conception.
I will not go into case examples, because having just made the previous points, they can be applied to different circumstances.
Posted by tremendoustie 9 years ago
tremendoustie
The fundamental question is at what point a baby becomes a person. If a baby (fetus) directly prior to birth is a person with all inherent rights, to kill it is murder. If it is not a person, it does not have inherent rights, and the woman has the right to kill it. All talk of privacy, or talk of personal resposibility for having sex in the first place is irrelevant in my opinion, and just increases the amount of hot air and frustration on either side.

When does a baby/fetus become a person with full rights? That is the only relevent question, and I was disappointed that it was not addressed, so I did not vote.

For my part, we define death as the point when brainwaves are no longer produced and the heart stops beating, so I would think that the begninning of these things for a baby would be a reasonable definition for the beginning of life.
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
Barbie Girl, the percentages don't go up. If you use both the pill and the condom the percentages stay the same.
Posted by BarbieGirl 9 years ago
BarbieGirl
I understand that but in some cases the pill isn't effective. And condoms break. If these 2 situations occur at the same time that percentage ges up.
Posted by PoeJoe 9 years ago
PoeJoe
@ BarbieGirl,

Actually, if both the pill and a condom are used, there is less than a .04% chance a woman can get pregnant per year.
17 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by SexyLatina 9 years ago
SexyLatina
BarbieGirlrevleader5Tied
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Vote Placed by thirdworldpoet 9 years ago
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BarbieGirlrevleader5Tied
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Vote Placed by agonzalez_esp 9 years ago
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BarbieGirlrevleader5Tied
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Vote Placed by lola 9 years ago
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BarbieGirlrevleader5Tied
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Vote Placed by goldspurs 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 9 years ago
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BarbieGirlrevleader5Tied
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Vote Placed by spencetheguy 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by decisis 9 years ago
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BarbieGirlrevleader5Tied
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Vote Placed by bizzyjudy 9 years ago
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