The Instigator
DanPeter
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
werdna1999
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Abortion is Murder

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
DanPeter
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/4/2015 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 350 times Debate No: 71100
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

DanPeter

Pro

Hi Werdna,

I saw your previous open debate about abortion and I would have liked to accept it, but wasn't quick enough.

For the structure let's do:

Round 1: Acceptance

Round 2: Opening Case

Round 3: Rebuttals

& Round 4: Rebuttal and closing

Will you accept?

werdna1999

Con

I do accept, do you mind if I cherry pick a little of my previous opening? Starting from scratch seems a tad unnecessary.
Debate Round No. 1
DanPeter

Pro

I don't mind if you cherry pick from the last post, copy paste if you like :)

I'll start my opening case short and simply.

Modern science indicates that the beginning of life occurs sometime after the fertilization of an ovum by a sperm cell(1). Every human should receive basic human rights. This includes the right to live. To kill a human life when it is most vulnerable is murder.

A fetus may be "just a clump of cells" yet these clump of cells are a human life. In fact, you and I could also be defined as "just a clump of cells" for that is what our bodies are made up of.

There are many arguments as to why it's okay to terminate an unborn baby, but all of these are justifications for murder because they kill an innocent human life. In order to justify abortion we need to change the definition of what it means to be human. I do not believe in discriminating against someone because of their age or physical development, yet abortion does precisely that.

I would like to make the comment that I do not think that women who undergo an abortion are wicked or deserve punishment. I believe we've created a society that makes it okay for women to have an abortion and we as a society are to blame.

(1)http://bdfund.org......


werdna1999

Con

Thank you, you saved me a lot of time allowing my to copy and paste my previous opening. :)

When a women has an abortion, she is removing only a clump of cells from her body ( I am opposed abortion after 6 months ). Should the government force her to birth what is technically a parasite in her body? Arguing that a fetus is a human and should receive basic human rights is a viable reason for not aborting, yet if you do believe that a fetus is a human, and thus with human rights, a fetus does not have the right to live inside another organism (just as any other human), nor does the fetus have the right to use another human's organs without his/her permission, just as someone can refuse to donate their organs, even if it puts another's life at stake. Taking away a woman's control to her body is taking away her rights, her life, so I am pro-life, pro the life of the pregnant individual.

Childbirth is the 6th leading cause, causing over 200,000 deaths in 2013 and around 10 million become injured, infected or sick (http://www.who.int......). If you are truly pro-life, then you would agree that it is more important to save a woman who has lived and can think for herself, than a potentially harmful parasite residing inside of her. A woman should be able to eliminate her risk of death as she needs.

Some say that abortion has too many dangerous side effects, though you can see in my previous paragraph that pregnancy also does, a woman dying from pregnancy is 14 times more likely than dying from an abortion (http://abortion.procon.org......). Making abortions illegal won't necessarily cause them to stop, only make them more dangerous, as those who do not want children will engage in unprofessional means of aborting their fetus.

Any religious reasoning for being anti-abortions should not be forced upon our government, much less other's lives.

For people who are only okay with abortions when a woman is raped, I ask you to question your logic, for if you believe that abortion is murder, then why is a baby conceived from rape any less than one who is the product of a stable marriage?

A common solution that is proposed for minors and others not (financially or maturely) ready for a baby is adoption, yet putting a baby up for adoption costs a lot more money than an abortion, usually around 3,500$-7,000$. Forcing a minor through pregnancy not only hurts the child (their likeliness of teen pregnancy rises) but also hurts the mother, as only 1/3 of teen mothers graduate high school, and 80% of them end up on welfare (http://www.teenhelp.com......).
Debate Round No. 2
DanPeter

Pro

Time for rebuttals!



You said:



"When a women has an abortion, she is removing only a clump of cells from her body ( I am opposed abortion after 6 months ). Should the government force her to birth what is technically a parasite in her body?"(emphasis added)



I mentioned in my opening statement that just because a fetus is a "bunch of cells" does not make it any more or less human. In fact all humans could be called, "just a bunch of cells" for that is what we are made up of. I'm not sure what definition of parasite you are using but it's certainly not a technical one. A parasite is an organism that lives on or in another organism of another species(1). An unborn baby or fetus is dependent on the mother for the first stages of life, just as any other mammal. To be technical a fetus is a mammal not a parasite.



The government is not "forcing" anything upon the woman. Prolife does not take away a woman’s choice to not have a baby. The woman has full freedom over her sexual behavior. She has freedom to choose whether or not she has a baby before conception. Prolife promotes responsibility for the choices the mother has already made and protects the human life she is now responsible for.



You said:



"yet if you do believe that a fetus is a human..."(emphasis added)



It's not a matter of believe, it's a matter of scientific fact(2). I mentioned this in my opening case. You cannot claim that an unborn is not human because it is less developed. Is an adult more human than a baby? Of course not! That's discriminatory. Why should it be any different for an unborn baby?



You said you are against abortion after 6 months. Why should a baby of 6 months be more valuable then that of 5 or of 1 day? Did you know that at 4 months a baby has developed reflexes and can even suck their thumb?(3) Did you know that by the 8th week a baby can feel pain?(4) If an organism can feel pain it must have a level of self-awareness. But neither of these facts make the fetus any more or less "human". To discriminate against a living human being because of their age or physical development is not right. Why should it be okay inside the womb they are most vulnerable?



You said:



"nor does the fetus have the right to use another humans organs without his/her permission"



The fetus did not invade the mother or choose to live inside her. These choices were made by the mother. The mother chose to have sex at the right time of the month, without proper contraception. The mother chose to create life, not the child. Why should the human life who was created by the choices of the mother then be neglected and killed? The choices of the mother are permission enough. It's her very own doing!




You said:



"Childbirth is the 6th leading cause, causing over 200,000 deaths in 2013..."



Yes, but abortion has killed even more lives! Some 1.06 million abortions were performed in 2011 in the US alone!(5) .Your reasoning rests on the idea that a mothers life is worth more then her baby's. Again, this is a discriminatory notion. The mother and baby both have equal value as human beings.



You said:



"..putting a baby up for adoption costs a lot more money than an abortion, usually around 3,500$-7,000$"



Adoption can certainly be expensive, but whether it’s a viable solution does not build a case that abortion is not murder. Many times aborting the unborn baby would make life easier for the mother, this does not change whether abortion kills an innocent life and is therefore murder. We need to support mothers in difficult situations from unplanned pregnancies. In a recent letter to my federal member of parliament, I raised the issue of more support for our single mums. We need to support single mums, not teach them to kill an innocent life to make it better.




(1)http://dictionary.reference.com...


(2)http://bdfund.org......


(3)http://www.babies.sutterhealth.org...


(4)http://www.abortionfacts.com...


(5)https://www.guttmacher.org...

werdna1999

Con

werdna1999 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
DanPeter

Pro

I hope you can make it for you're final round. I won't add anything else for my 4th and final round.
werdna1999

Con

werdna1999 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by cwt002 1 year ago
cwt002
I am sorry but CON definitely misrepresented their quote: "Childbirth is the 6th leading cause, causing over 200,000 deaths in 2013 and around 10 million become injured, infected or sick."

As far as the deaths go the quote continues "Almost all of these deaths occurred in low-resource settings, and most could have been prevented. "

Most of these deaths occur in developing countries (from the same source) like Africa, Asia....... The real issue is getting these places the resources to perform safe deliveries. Also, 200,000 deaths compared to the worlds population is less than 1% and 10 million is less than 1% as well. In other words, possible death to the mother is not a legitimate excuse for an abortion.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
DanPeterwerdna1999Tied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture