The Instigator
lindsey1010
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
lexi_the_thinker
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Abortion is Wrong

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
lindsey1010
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/22/2016 Category: People
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 460 times Debate No: 87032
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (2)

 

lindsey1010

Pro

PRO MEANS IT IS WRONG, CON MEANS IT IS RIGHT. Abortion is wrong because it is condemnable for the same reasons that slavery and genocide are. People forget when deciding to have an abortion that it takes two bodies to make a baby, the baby experiences physical pain, and every abortion kills an innocent human being. Some people have to grow up with the fact that their parents did not want them for different reasons. The baby should not have to suffer especially because they feel pain. A baby being ripped apart or poisoned is a sickening thought. Please be respectful in this debate. Thank you for debating!
lexi_the_thinker

Con

My opponent's opening argument is that "Abortion is Wrong." For my opponent to state that slavery, genocide, and abortion are all condemnable because they are wrong is not only false but it is actually fairly sickening that my opponent would even decide to group them together. Now, my opponent is clearly misinformed on what the differences between baby and fetus are actually are. A baby is a fully developed infant that is ready to enter the stages of childhood, adulthood, then becoming the elderly. A fetus is a baby that is still inside of the mother's uterus still developing. So, my opponent please don't get confused on the two things because they are actually different. Now, while the process of abortion is taking place, the fetus has to be around 2-5 months for doctors to actually perform the procedure. The doctors have a "cut-off" point. This is the point where they can not abort a fetus because the fetus is too far developed and too far along to be aborted. If the doctors don't see abnormalities during the pregnancy, they won't abort a baby if you are too far along, but some doctors still abort a baby during the stages where the fetus is now turning into an infant. Now, there is no significant or reliable evidence that a fetus will feel pain during the process of abortion. My idea is that the neurological system isn't yet developed enough for the fetus to feel pain. The neurological system is the functioning system that helps with the nerves in your skin, your thoughts, etc.. So, the statement, "The fetus will feel pain while being aborted." and the other statement, "The fetus will not feel pain while being aborted." is not valid for either opponent, so that is null for both of us. My opponent also stated, "Some people have to grow up with the fact that their parents did not want them for different reasons." My opponent not only gave a bonus to me but helped me somewhat with this debate. If a baby is aborted because the parents didn't want the child, they won't have to grow up knowing that they weren't wanted which can cause severe depression and self-inflicted wounds which can then lead to suicide. Ok, now the fetus will not suffer if aborted, their is no given proof that they will experience pain, but if their is scientific proof, please provide. Now, abortion does not kill an innocent human being. Whether you are religious or not, you will agree that we were all born into temptation and evil (sin if you are religious.) In their later years, no one is going to be innocent. Whether the child had stole a cookie from a jar without telling their parents, that still is not innocence, though it is over something that is so petty. Final conclusion, there are other reasons babies will be aborted which will later be explained in my next argument. Rape, financial structure, mental stability, etc.. And as always, thank you for your argument opponent.
Debate Round No. 1
lindsey1010

Pro

Excuse me, a fetus is different from a baby. But why does it matter what it is called? It does make a difference when we are talking about the development of the baby, but not how much the fetus is considered life. Opponent, please remember we are talking about life. The fetus when being aborted at 8 weeks and older feels pain. My oponent has stated "the neurogical system isn't yet developed enough to feel pain". It feels pain because the 8 week period is when the developing fetus first develops nerves in the skin. That means it is more sensitive than fully developed nerves and skin. Before 8 weeks, it does not feel pain because the nerves have not been developed yet. My opponent has stated " Now while the process of abortion is taking place, the fetus has to be around 2-5 months for doctors to actually perform the procedure". Opponent, 2 months is 8 weeks. The prodedure is performed at 8 weeks, where the fetus starts to feel pain because the nerves are sensitive and first developing. Opponent, if you do not believe the facts, look it up and you will find the facts that the fetus indeed does feel pain 8 weeks and older.

Moving on, my opponent misunderstood my statement " Some people have to grow up with the fact that their parents did not want them for different reasons." This statement refers to survivors of abortion. Survivors of abortion are people whose parents wanted to abort them but it failed or there were complications. Of course a fetus will not grow up knowing all of this because it has been killed.

My opponent has also stated "Now, abortion does not kill an innocent human being. Whether you are religious or not, you will agree that we were all born into temptation and evil (sin if you are religious). " My opponent defines innocent in the case as no sin. In this case, an innocent fetus means it was not its fault for being the result of the parents uncarefulness, parents lack of precaution, or an accident. In these situations (NOT including rape), the parents knew that this is the result of having sex. It is not the fetus' fault and you can never say it was its fault for being the result. Yes, we are all born into sin. God says we are all born into sin, but He did NOT say that since we are all born into sin we can kill whoever we want because it does not matter anyways. Jesus died on the cross and justified that even if we are sinful, we have a purpose in life and therefore means nobody should be killed for any reason.

Opponent, based on the information I have given you, please continue your argument.
lexi_the_thinker

Con

Opponent, you aren't correct. When it comes to the topic of abortion, the development of fetus is actually relevant and necessary, especially when referring to a sensitive topic as this. Also, you stated, "Opponent, please remember we are talking about life." Life is what you begin when you're actually born. A fetus developing has a "pre-life" simply because they haven't began life, they're still developing. I'm not entirely sure if you can provide links to where you grab the information that fetuses can feel pain, but it would be much appreciated. Also, it's not very clear as to where you got your sources. I can't just simply, "look-up," I'm not sure where your statements are rendered from, so if you could provide a link, that would be much appreciated as stated above.
Now, as for the actual term of when abortion can be performed, two months, is indeed eight weeks, I've already noted that, opponent. Pain in something most people feel, (adults, children, infants, etc..) While the fetus is in the uterus, the slightest fall a mother may experience, the fetus will feel. So, a fetus being aborted, cause just as much or equal pain to a mother falling. There is no significant difference in the two scenarios. So if you say that an innocent human being will feel pain during abortion, what about the mother? The mother is the one that has to have her uterus' tissue being ripped and torn at which causes undesirable pain. The mother also experiences horrible contractions and pain in her back. And the mother has to experience this all what for? While having sex with her partner, the condom wasn't reliable and it broke, which the mother had no intentions on happening? Is that seriously the reason that the mother has to constantly deal with being malnourished because the baby may or may not refuse the food that the mother eats? She has 24/7 cramps and miserable pain. Physical and possibly emotional pain no one else can endure, not even the father.
Referring back to my reference to rape, financial structure, and mental stability, etc.. I have a few questions for you opponent. A lady was raped by a man, a month later, she finds out she is pregnant, do you feel as if she should abort or keep the baby? What is your standpoint on that? If you say she should keep it, why? She will only be constantly reminded of the horrible experience that happened to her. Give it up for adoption? The child will sooner or later know that the family they currently reside with is not their biological family. And that child will know that they were not actually wanted by the parents, it was an unfortunate experience. THAT CHILD WILL THEN HAVE TO GROW UP KNOWING THEY WERE NOT WANTED AND WHICH WILL CAUSE DEPRESSION, SUICIDE, MENTAL DISABILITIES, ETC.. IT WILL BE BETTER TO ABORT THE BABY SO THEY WON'T LIVE WITH THAT TERROR AND CONSTANT PAIN! Financial structure.. Would you rather spend your hard earned money educating students to better educate themselves or spend it on a family with a baby that can't afford simple necessities such as diapers, formula, etc.. Your choice opponent. Would you really want a mentally insane woman to take care of a child? Let's say the mentally insane woman wasn't diagnosed to be mentally insane by the hospital. So she has to raise this child. The child is not in good standing nor in a good position.
I am very devoted and involved to my religion, Christianity. But for the sake of this website and debate, religion is not really a valid point to others on this website. It may be to some, but not to all! So for the sake of the site, please don't refer to religion because that only makes your statements on abortion biased. And as always, thank you for your argument opponent.
Debate Round No. 2
lindsey1010

Pro

My opponent has said life begins at birth. According to http://www.nrlc.org..., "The life of a baby begins long before he or she is born. A new individual human being begins at fertilization, when the sperm and ovum meet to form a single cell. If the baby's life is not interrupted, he or she will someday become an adult man or woman". You should have learned that in science class in middle school. So opponenet, we ARE talking about life, thank you.

Here are some sources you can look at to prove to you the fetus feels pain: http://www.mccl.org..., http://www.abort73.com..., and http://www.doctorsonfetalpain.com....

When a mother falls and the baby feels her pain, that is an accident. An abortion is the deliberate killing of a fetus to prevent a pregnancy. Here are some examples of techniques of abortion from http://www.all.org.... (WARNING: DISTURBING) -
DILATION AND EVACUATION (D&E): The abortionist uses a forceps to grab parts of the baby (arms and legs) and then tears the baby apart. The baby's head must be crushed in order to remove it because the skull bone has hardened by this stage in the baby's growth. SALT POISONING: The abortionist sticks a long needle into the mother"s womb. The needle contains salt which is then injected into the amniotic fluid surrounding the baby. The baby breathes in, swallows the salt and dies from salt poisoning, dehydration, brain hemorrhage and convulsions. Taking nearly an hour to die, the baby"s skin is completely burned, turns red and deteriorates. The baby is in pain the entire time. The mother goes into labor 24 " 48 hours later and delivers a dead baby. DILATION AND CURETTEGE (D&C): In this procedure, the abortionist uses a loop shaped knife to cut the baby into pieces and scrape the uterine wall. The baby"s body parts are then removed and checked to make sure that no pieces were left in the mother"s womb. "Unborn babies 20 weeks development actually feel pain more intensely than adults" says Dr. Ranalli from http://www.mccl.org....

Plus, a fall is a fall. I am sure being torn to pieces and put in a jar is more painful last time I checked. Imagine you scrape your knee. The skin is now sensitive, right? Now imagine someone stabbed and tore it with a sharp stick. On top of that they soak it in salt water. Opponent, that is worse than just a fall. A mother experiences pain too. She experiences extreme cramps and lots of physical pain after an abortion. Opponent you say "the mother is the one having her uterus' tissue being ripped and torn at which causes undesirable pain". I don't know why this would help your argument if you are standing for Abortion is Right. Both the fetus and the mother should not have to go through all that pain just because the condom broke.

Now moving on to rape. Rape is a very difficult thing to deal with. It violates the mother, and it ruins her life because now she has to deal with it. HOWEVER, it does not justify the fact you can kill a human being. It was not the fetus/baby's fault it had a rapist father. It's not its fault. Rape does not give you an excuse to rip apart an innocent living being.

With financial structure, it is not right to raise a child when you can barely feed and clothe yourself. A child should grow up in a stable home. HOWEVER, it does not justify the fact you can kill a human being. It was not the fetus/baby's fault you can not support yourself.

You might ask, "What are my options if I can not just get rid of 'the problem'?". You can give the baby up for adoption. You might also say, like my opponent, "But then this child will know I did not want them and raising them would ruin my life" or "The families won't care for them". Do not be cynical. There are families out there that want a child and will care for them. The thing they want most is the oppurtunity to care for a child because they are unable or they want a new experience.

Also opponent, you say it would have been best if the child was aborted. Based on the information you have given me, you are saying ALL CHILDREN WHO HAVE HAD TO DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT THEIR MOTHER DID NOT WANT THEM SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABORTED. Let that sink in. For all you readers out there, how does it feel to know that some people would rather have you dead instead of letting you have a second chance at life? A knife to the heart.

With a mentally insane woman, hell no I would not let that child stay there. Depending on what type of disorder, the child is at risk of being abused or hurt. Once the baby has been born, if she doesn't want it, then give him or her to a family that wants a child, is financially stable, and is healthy. What if she was not diagnosed? You will eventually notice odd things that you haven't noticed before. You will know if that child has been abused or hurt. You will know what the mother is like if she does not take meds. It is up to you to keep a watchful eye out because you never know what happens behind closed doors. Opponent, I am not saying you should raise the child if you have your own issues. What I am saying is you should give him or her a second chance because you never know if they could have done great things.

Also, you have NO SOURCES. Next time, when you want to make a ridiculous statement like a fetus is not alive until it is born (then why does it kick???) then provide a source of where you got that from. That is RIDICULOUS.

Lexi_the_thinker, maybe you should THINK a bit more about what you are saying. Abortion is wrong, and there is no proof you can provide that makes it right. If you still THINK it is right, then you are saying murder of the innocent is right. "In some cases, murder is perfectly fine". THINKERS THINK, LEXI.

What else do you have to say?
lexi_the_thinker

Con

Opponet, in all honesty. I don't even know exactly why I even chose to take up this argument with you. It's clear that your mind is so manipulated and writhed of all logic. I should've knew that when you started to compare abortion to slavery and genocide that something wasn't quite functioning in your brain. You are honestly a disgusting person. Your logic is false, your thinking and how you process is false and disgusting. And where in the world did I ever state that a fetus wasn't alive? I said it actually hadn't begun it's actual life because it's developing, it's alive just hasn't exactly begun their life. How you take even discuss how the baby shouldn't be aborted because of rape is disgusting and mind boggling. I also never ever stated that raising a child is ruining a life. I said it can cause the mother pain but it won't ruin their life. Their insides, yes. Their life, no. When it comes down to certain circumstances and decisions the child possibly could. I'm not going to call you any names but how you respond to things honestly makes me ponder about what standing your mental health is. For the people that are reading, I hope you see how Lindsey has skipped over statements I specifically told her to answer. I answered all parts of your debate will whole-heartedly. Lindsey, or whatever you want to be referred to as. For you to stoop down so low to say that people being beaten killed, enslaved, their children raped, them raped, days of tough labor, their mental and physical state detoriating until they kill themselves, watching their children die before their eyes from malnourishment and abuse(slavey) is equal to abortion, something isn't functioning whatsoever in your mind. Lindsey, with all utmost and due respect, instead of sitting behind a computer feeling justified that you believe abortion is right, you may need to go get diagnosed with some mental illness that affects your thinking process. That is the one and ever time you have provided a source that actually explains that fetuses do indeed feel pain and I appreciate that but at this point, I'm questioning why I am even arguing with a simple-minded and brainwashed human being? And never did I say that children who have to deal with the fact that their parents should've been aborted. All I said simply was that it may have been hard to deal with them. Why would they be aborted and there is no telling what great people they could become that could make a revolutionary change in the way we live our lives on a day to day basis. That's beside the point though. I have no sources? I have a ton of sources I used, I will provide at the very end. I REPEATEDLY ASKED YOU FOR THEM AND YOUR RESPONSE: Nothing. This was the only time you ever provided them as said above. And honey, kicking doesn't just prove you're alive. It does prove you're alive, but there are other ways you can tell if a baby is living or not, thank God. You proved nothing to me other than that you're a possible maniac with no thinking process. Instead of me thinking, maybe you should use that organ called a brain in your head to think. You act with no logic and that is disgusting, ridiculous, and terrible. I don't get why you're still well. You haven't proved to me whatsoever that abortion is wrong. You have just proved to me you're a maniac, but in the end, who proved if abortion is right or wrong is up to the readers, not us, I just want to state that you have serious and deep mental isues that have to be solved, hun. What's ridiculous is your logical reasonings and thinking proccess. And how you phrase fetuses as "the problem" is disgusting. For over half the arguement you made me think that you were siding with me because your "evidence" proved nothing regarding whether abortion is wrong. All you did was pick at minor flaws in my debate. You only provided ONE SOURCE. Out of this whole debate. You even said that because a woman was raped she should not kill the fetus because rape doesn't give you an excuse to "rip" a human being apart. You obviously don't know how terrible rape is and how it can affect those that have went through it. In all honesty, I can't believe you're an actual person that's roaming this earth. Why am I wasting my time while I could be doing debates that's worthwhile. You just twisted my arguments and said stuff that clearly wasn't there not was it stated. Source: http://rhrealitycheck.org.... How you present yourself and state arguements is disgusting. Why am I even wasting my time with you? You obviously are wrong in the head and you have proved nothing to me. Maybe to those reading, but not to me. And you used my age as a way of criticizing? Really Lindsey? Obviously you thought I was older because I PRESENTED LOGICAL AND HAD LOGIC ACCURATELY. <--------- That's advice you should take.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by CKearney 7 months ago
CKearney
This argument is inductive and weak. This argument is weak based off of the definition which is an argument in which the conclusion does not follow probably from the premises, even though it is claimed too. At a glance his conclusion does not go along with what his premises are. His conclusion is other reasons babies will be aborted when the argument is about why abortion is wrong. All of his premises state other reasons babies will be aborted in the future and not why it is wrong to him.
Posted by lexi_the_thinker 9 months ago
lexi_the_thinker
I also did read your Round 3 Arguement I just felt like it wasn't vital to really anything because you twisted my words.
Posted by lexi_the_thinker 9 months ago
lexi_the_thinker
Lindsey, you have already made yourself seem like a complete and total moron. I'm just asking, who compares abortion to slavery and genocide. I haven't wasted my chance. You weren't worth anything to debate against. You literally compared slavery to abortion, what? Are you--what? http://www.abort73.com... isn't a legible source it literally states at the bottom of the page that the author who wrote the page can only say that the fetus responds violently to a stimuli YOU and I would find painful, anyways Lindsey. This may matter to you most because you actually didn't just wing it like I did. Anyways, I have a life and things to do so I hope you win. :)
Posted by lindsey1010 9 months ago
lindsey1010
Lexi, please. Just stop. You are embarassing yourself. I have provided more than 5 sources, and you, one. I have answered your questions so you obviously did not read my Round 3 argument. You have just wasted your last chance to rant at me because you are too upset to handle this maturely. A year apart but your immaturity proves there is a larger gap there. You need to calm down and handle this the right way, not the way to embrass yourself. Please
Posted by lexi_the_thinker 9 months ago
lexi_the_thinker
Considering you're one year older than me makes no sense and I don't see why my age is a problem. It's not valid to use someone's age as an arguement against them considering we're 1 year apart.
Posted by lexi_the_thinker 9 months ago
lexi_the_thinker
Correct sentences? I have mishaps here and there but that's because I was too hasty to post my arguement because you weren't worthwile. Think, Lindsey, what's wrong with you? You could have a better life and have your mental illness diagnosed but obviously you chose not to. As stated in Round 3, you've proved nothing to me, but ok.
Posted by lindsey1010 9 months ago
lindsey1010
So I am debating a 13 year old that does not know how this works. You can't make a structured argument with correct sentences. Let me not even waste my time...
Posted by lexi_the_thinker 9 months ago
lexi_the_thinker
Yo Diego, why you just took everything I said and threw it out a damn window? I never said you could kill anybody any age, but if I did, please state. I personally don't believe abortion is right nor wrong. It depends on certain circumstances whether it's right or wrong. I did this debate as an experiment because I've been curious about how debates work on this site. I saw Abortion is Wrong and decided to debate, I messed up and picked that I disagreed with the statement but curiousity rolled over me so I chose to took the opposing side. There's no such thing as "right" or "wrong" when it comes to strong topics like these. But if you want to question if I'm a Christian or not, I'm 13, accepted Jesus at the age of 5. I don't get why religion even goes hand-in-hand with this topic. It only makes you more biased. Thank you Diego. :) P.S. Lindsey instead of leaving comments please continue with the debate.
Posted by lindsey1010 9 months ago
lindsey1010
Thank you DiEgO123100. Exactly my point
Posted by DiEgO123100 9 months ago
DiEgO123100
and if you were christian, wouldnt you take the right side, not for the sake of a website?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Hylian_3000 9 months ago
Hylian_3000
lindsey1010lexi_the_thinkerTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Nice debate... Till the end. Conduct: Both showed poor respect toward each other, but Con ATTACKED Pro at the end. S&G: Both had spelling and grammatical mistakes. Arguments: Both sides had good points and arguments, however Pro did a better job explaining and proving his arguments. Con made good arguments, but failed to prove his point. Pro was able to successfully counter Con's arguments in my opinion. Sources: Pro used more and reliable sources.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 9 months ago
dsjpk5
lindsey1010lexi_the_thinkerTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con showed poor conduct in the final round by employing personal insults. ( "You are honestly a disgusting person")