The Instigator
arock
Pro (for)
Winning
19 Points
The Contender
Scyrone
Con (against)
Losing
16 Points

Abortion is crude and should be illegal

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/14/2008 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,201 times Debate No: 2649
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (9)

 

arock

Pro

1) There is a law in affect right now that says if you murder a pregnant woman you get 2 counts of murder.
2) Scientists have proven that the fetus is a human being that can feel things.
3) There are videos out that show abortions being performed and the human inside the womb is trying to get away from the needle.

people think that just because the fetus inside the womb is not completly devloped means that it can't feel pain which is completly FALSE!

if murdering a human being outside of the womb and murdering a human being with another human inside of them is illegal than murdering a human inside of the womb without murdering the mother is wrong and should be illegal
Scyrone

Con

You haven't backed up any of your arguments with anything.

First I will state my argument against why abortion is not crude and not illegal. Then I will rebuttal my opponent's arguments.

Abortion may be a last choice among pregnant women, but in some cases it is necessary. What if a man raped a sixteen year old girl, and she was going to have a baby, but she didn't want to have it? I think she should be allowed to abort it. What if a fetus was discovered with a disease, and just after it was born it would die? Would it be crude to not abort that baby? Yes. I believe that it is possible to have abortion without being crude about it and without making it illegal. Plus, since the Earth is always growing it should lessen the rates of how our populace grows.

For example, if 1 and 2 and 3 babies (A1, A2, A3) and A1, A2, and A3 married B1, B2, and B3 (who were born from C1 and C2). A1 had three babies, A2 had one baby, and A3 had none. The amount of people has just grown from 4 to 14, in a small generation. Abortion could be a great way to control the populace.

Now time for rebuttals:

"Scientists have proven that the fetus is a human being that can feel things"

My dog can feel things too, that must mean it is a Human being too, right? Also, a corpse is still Human because it has all the same features of a Human, right? No, Human being comes from the word Homo Sapiens (in Latin meaning "wise man" or "knowledgeable man", "homo" referring to ‘Human' and "sapien" meaning wise).

Fetus' are not wise. I have still yet to see any evidence that Scientists have proven Fetus' to be Human. For if they are Human they must be "wise", which they are not. It does not make sense. They are in the pre-stages of Human life, but they are not fully Human being.

"There are videos out that show abortions being performed and the human inside the womb is trying to get away from the needle"

Let us see these videos you have so graciously provided. Also, fetus' cannot "try to get away from the needle"; they are not fully developed yet to know what a needle even is. And yes, they do feel the pain, but they don't even know what pain is. It is like me sticking a needle in a dead person. They don't care because they don't know of your existence and the pain's existence.

I believe your arguments require proof, which you have decided to assume is true and not to provide.
Debate Round No. 1
arock

Pro

you said "first i will explain why abortion is not crude and not illegal" abortion i currently legal, i said that it should be illegal.
Scyrone

Con

Okay, my mistake. My arguments still stand. Let me correct myself "Abortion SHOULD not be illegal".

(100 characters)
Debate Round No. 2
arock

Pro

arock forfeited this round.
Scyrone

Con

Pro in this debate failed to include his rebuttals and his closing argument. He most likely did not see a win for him and chose to eject himself from the debate.

My points stood still the whole time.

A vote for Pro is a vote on opinion, not on debate.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by bigdog 9 years ago
bigdog
I skimmed the studies, but all in all the fact whether a living organism can or can not feel pain is no reason to take their life. Is it OK to kill a person, as long as you apply a anesthetic first since they wouldn't feel the pain behind the murder?

How about a handicapped kid that can't really display emotion or feeling, would it be OK to end this individual's life?

Again, whether you believe in creationism or the science of evolution, abortion is against what you believe.

I am still unsure how someone can feel that stopping an unborn life by one person's choice alone is a justifiable act.
Posted by friar_zero 9 years ago
friar_zero
Read the studies, not just the wikipedia entry. Also, technically, they say you are having a baby. Future tense. Not that it matters.
Posted by bigdog 9 years ago
bigdog
From your article on wikipedia: "Nevertheless, because pain can involve sensory, emotional and cognitive factors, it is "impossible to know" when painful experiences may become possible, even if it is known when thalamocortical connections are established in the 26th week."

If you are ok with abortion, why stop at a living thing within a womb? Why not take it to the next level and give the parents a six month deciding period after the baby is born?

Noone ever says, "Oh your pregnant, congratulations on the fetus". No it is a baby, inside or outside of the mother.

Scyrone, you are putting plants and animals at the same level as humans. I value human life before plants and animals of any kind.

Whether you look at it religiously or scientifically, abortion is wrong. Religious for obvious reasons, scientifically because it does nothing to advance your species.

I am not sure how someone can feel that sticking a scissors in the back of a skull, sucking the brains out, then tearing off one limb at a time before the remainder can be removed is a justifiable act.

As far as leaving it up to the states, it is because it is not in the constitution. Whatever is not in the constitution is left up to the states, whatever isn't in the states constitution is left up to the city/township/etc. This is a measure that is designed to keep the federal government focusing on the issues that are for our national interest, not our social interest.
Posted by Scyrone 9 years ago
Scyrone
I am for abortion. Honestly, if you thinka fetus is life, then we should not step on a blade of grass, cut down a single tree, or even eat a single animal because we are destroying life. And if we murder something that is alive we are killing the innocent. So in order for the planet to live you must die.

Also, if you think abortion is murder then I think you should stop driving cars (pollution), don't spray deoderant (affects the ozone), and eat your own crap over and over (so you don't eat living plants or living animals, or living organisms for that matter). All those cause death, therefore you are murdering someone.

There is NO WAY to tell if the fetus feels pain because the fetus is not intelligent enough to cry or yell or even tell you. It has not evolved far enough.
Posted by friar_zero 9 years ago
friar_zero
Fetal Pain:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
http://www.mrc.ac.uk...
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

As a side note, I really don't understand you states-rights people. National problems must have national solutions and if one state can define life differently than another state, you might as well secede. But I digress.
Posted by bigdog 9 years ago
bigdog
Please provide the proof that a fetus can not feel pain in the first or second trimester.

I will stand for the fact that in the cases of rape, incest, and potential damage to the mother that abortion should be an option. With this said, there must be a rape suit filed against the perpetrator as well as DNA collected from the baby to help determine the rapist. In the case of incest, local laws should be enforced in this situation. Life threatening to the mother is a big debate as a girl I work with was given a C-Section at 6 months and the baby survived and is very healthy. That being said, most if not all late term abortions could be avoided with today's technology.

Martin Haskell, who is the doctor that wrote the procedure for partial birth abortion has recently came out and stated that the necessity of this procedure is very uncommon.

On a side note, the legality of abortion should be left to each individual state not the federal government.
Posted by friar_zero 9 years ago
friar_zero
Standard rebuttal to pro-life:
1.The fetus cannot feel pain until at least the third trimester.

2.The fetus is effectively brain dead until the third trimester and thus has no cognizant rights.

3.The rights of the living and thinking should trump those of the non-living, unthinking. This is a question of biology, not intellect.

4.The fetus, until the third trimester, is a lump of growing tissue. It is not until the brain reaches a sizable development and pain receptors attach to the brain that the fetus can even be considered a human being.

5.If you are knocked unconscious and wake up with someone strapped to to you, tubes running out and using your internal organs (like a human dialysis machine); would you have the right to disconnect? Of course, it's your body.

On a personal note, I am against late term abortions and feel that it is my place to argue on the internet but leave the legal decision to women. Oh, and of course abortion is a last resort and should not be the "quick fix" birth control that many pro-life claim it to be.
Posted by aceofelves 9 years ago
aceofelves
abortion is murder, always.

aborting the baby to save the mother's life only occurs in the rarest of situations. it is so rare that it should not even be brought up as a defense. it's a terrible argument.

i used to think a twelve year old girl who got raped should be able to abort, but then i realized, why make something bad even worse? give the baby up for adoption.

human life is sacred. we're murdering millions of babies in HOSPITALS and doctor's offices. how wrong is that? what would hippocrates say? abortion is an abomination.
Posted by Shorack 9 years ago
Shorack
he's right on those videos though, saw one once.
Posted by Renzzy 9 years ago
Renzzy
arok, I like your argument. It is exactly correct. Why should people kill babies just because they are an inconvenience? If I am going to be late for something important, and some old guy in front of me on the road is slowing me down, should I so up and kill him? I don't think so. Human life it far to precious to throw away so thoughtlessly.
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by Scyrone 8 years ago
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