The Instigator
TheExceptionalNarcissist
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Nsgid
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Abortion, is it murder?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/9/2017 Category: People
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 584 times Debate No: 100715
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (2)
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TheExceptionalNarcissist

Con

This is something I've been tossing around for a while and I want someone to debunk what I am about to say. My point is this: If you are aborting a child, what separates that from murder? Let's say I kill an 82-year-old man, logically speaking, that man had 82 years to live his life to the fullest, certainly murdering him is wrong, but let's say I kill a newborn infant, that is certainly as bad, if not worse! So shouldn't killing a child that has yet to be born be even worse? If you had not aborted the child it would have grown up into that infant and eventually (potentially), that 82-year-old man, so isn't it the same exact thing as killing the 82-year-old man or the infant? In all of these scenarios the human being would no longer exist, so what morally separates them? Now certainly you can counter by saying by my logic using a condom or any contraception would be just as bad and certainly, at that point, I would agree that contraception is not morally wrong, but where do we draw the line? Why is the line arbitrarily drawn at pregnancy, specifically at the point where the child can survive out of the womb? Decades from now medical science will have improved to the point where the child can survive outside of the womb far closer to the point of conception. My question is where do we draw the line on abortion and why. I sincerely appreciate anyone who responds to my argument as I certainly am open to someone changing my mind as I really have no idea where I stand on this issue. Thanks!
Nsgid

Pro

If the mother is endangered by having the pregnancy is it worth it? This would be deciding which life is more important, and if the baby is healthy. Before a certain point, babies are just a mess of cells, unable to think therefore the baby wouldn't care or realize he/she is even being aborted. Would not aborting be classified as murdering the mother? Or the mother suiciding to have the baby?
On another side, if the baby is extremely unhealthy it may be kinder to abort, instead of making it suffer all his/her life.
If the baby was made by irrisponsable sex, the mother may not be able to take care of the baby properly (teen moms) or if the mother doesn't want the baby he may be neglected or put into a care house. In both cases the child suffers as well as the mother who doesn't want to take care of the child. In turn this may lead to more murder cases as children in care homes are a whole six times more likely to go to jail.
This is my first debate, please excuse if it's not perfect
Debate Round No. 1
TheExceptionalNarcissist

Con

Perhaps I phrased my argument improperly, I am not arguing in what situations abortion may or may not be a good course of action. I am arguing that abortion is the same as murder.

I agreed in part to the idea that if the mother would die from childbirth it may make sense to abort, but based on the position I have already taken, that abortion is no different than murder, (something you have yet to dispute) what is the difference between killing an adult deemed "Extremely unhealthy" and an unborn baby who is "Extremely unhealthy?" Additionally, do you think the child would be better off dead than in an orphanage and likely adopted? Please explain to me why abortion is not murder, I am not attempting to debate the morality of abortion in different situations.
Nsgid

Pro

As the question is "Abortion, is it murder?"
Murder definition:
Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder) and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder)
Abortion is legal, therefore it cannot be classified as murder.

A scenario where it wasn't legal to abort (It's decided abortion is not ethical), if a woman doesn't want a baby she will probably abort anyway. Before abortion was legal, it is estimated that as many as 5,000 women died of unsafe abortions annually. Instead of illegalising abortion, making it impossible to get one we should start to try to educate people about unsafe sex. Looking at Switzerland and the Netherlands, who have some of the lowest abortion rates although they have largely unrestricted abortion laws. They achieved this by education their children about contraception and safe sex.

As con said in the first argument, where do we draw the line between when a human... is a human? The baby, before it is born cannot survive outside the womb, as stated, but if this is the case the woman has rights over her body and can abort if she wants to as the baby still depends on her, another living human being. Maybe when future technology is available, even one week old babies could survive outside the womb and only then is it a question of when we draw the line earlier. The rights over your body also clash with the right to live. It's just to decide which one is more important.

The baby likely cannot feel any pain and also doesn't care if they will die. Yes, the baby has a gender and unique DNA, but switching life support off a comatose patient is not considered wrong. There is currently a law in one state (Utah) That requires 20+ week old babies to be put under anesthesia before the abortion takes place to ethically kill ? the baby without pain. Although babies may be able to feel pain as early as 8 weeks this can be counteracted by using anesthesia earlier and introducing it to other countries/states, which is probably the right thing to do.
Source:
http://www.lifenews.com...
Debate Round No. 2
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by John_C_1812 1 year ago
John_C_1812
The fact a person has to ask that question is saying something very clearly. Let me ask you something, is Gender Specific Amputation a confession to murder?

The Separation of Abortion and State.
Posted by What50 1 year ago
What50
If the child in the mothers womb gets aborted we are murdering them. For example if the child was Jewish he doesn't deserve to get aborted. There is other ways for the Jew Child to be put to good use.

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