The Instigator
wize_mon
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
16kadams
Con (against)
Winning
27 Points

Abortion is moraly necessary

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/16/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,600 times Debate No: 24741
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (4)

 

wize_mon

Pro

I think that abortion must be legal everywhere because it is a w choice and who is we to deprive someone of that?
16kadams

Con

==>Rebuttals
[--Right to abortion?--]

It is a right to control your body, as long as the act does not infringe on other peoples lives. This is why things like murder, for example, are not allowed. Even though its your choice, and your body (thoughts) that you control, the state ought to discourage behavior that infringes other peoples rights. Pro-Abortion advocates usually argue that a preborn fetus does not count as a human being and is part of the woman's body, like an organ. Biology, however, refutes this view. Biology holds that a fetus and the woman are two different entities, and there are many biologic differences between the fetus and the woman. And at conception the child and the mother are not even connected. Even after the child is implanted, he/she is isolated in his/her amniotic sac. It only makes contact, actual connection, with the umbilical cord which feeds the child. But does this connection mean they are one being? Some twins bodies are even more conjoined, like Siamese twins. Although they have the same DNA, are essentially connected and cannot separate, they are considered two different human beings. So they they are one theory is bogus. Another theory is that women have property rights therefore have the right to kill the child through abortion. Though this theory is problematic as well. So as a fetus is an individual, I want you to remember that for me. Now if the fetus was ones property, in this case the mothers, then birth would not change its property status. Many counter that the fetus is in her property. But does being on ones property make you part of the property? Further the fetus, as proven earlier, is an individual. So it cannot be considered part of the property that way. Other people argue it is "her body", and the fetus depends on it for everything. But new borns are dependent on its mother too. It needs her mild, her care, her shelter, and her ind as it cannot think for itself. Her transportation, crawling is inefficient, and essentially everything from the mother. Does this mean mothers should have the right to kill her babies willfully because it relies on her? How about if the fetus is moved to artificial wombs? Does it become a person because it changed its carrier? A fetus is a rational human being at another stage of development. And any way you look at it, there is no rational reason to believe abortion is a human right [1].

[--My case--]

Although the resolution reads morals, my opponent has argued legality, therefore I will ague along the same path.

[--A fetus is a human--]

Any new life begins at conception, and that is a irrefutable fact presented by biology. Planned Parenthood even agrees with this sentiment, planned parenthood noted: "I think we have deluded ourselves into believing that people don't know that abortion is killing. So any pretense that abortion is not killing is a signal of our ambivalence, a signal that we cannot say yes, it kills a fetus."[2]

With the nations top abortion providers agreeing that abortion KILLS a fetus, this should be an eyeopener. But a good reader notes killing a fetus is not inherintley bad, unless the fetus qualifies as human life. So this statement proves little, though ends the discussion on if abortion kills something. So the real question: when does life begin? This quote sums it up nicely:

"Each of us begins his or her existence at conception with only one cell. This cell is special: All that which we will become later is essentially there; for this cell has the fundamental internal capacity to differentiate itself into the various organs of the human body. Even at conception, we were male or female human beings. Our hearts began to beat by the third week. Just seven weeks after conception, cell differentiation produced an integrated system of tissues and organs: blood, brain, and so on. By the end of the eighth week, all our body systems were present. As we grew in the womb, we responded to pain, cold, taste, light, and sound."[1]

The potential for being a human exists. It is already a rational being, but at a different level of development. Saying development is a key factor in someones life is like saying mentally disabled new borns are of less moral worth then normal fully grown human beings. This is simply illogical. I would also like to note most abortions happen in the 8-12th week of pregnancy, 6 weeks AFTER the heart has begun to beat [3].

As we can see, abortion should be treated as murder.

[--Babies feel pain--]

There are many observations that prove this point. As states most abortions happen in 8-11/12 weeks of pregnancy. And it is a fact that all late term abortions a fetus feels pain [4]. The scientific controversy, however, is when doctors claim fetuses feel pan as early as eight weeks (when most abortions occur). Here are the observations which prove fetuses feel pain at eight weeks:

1. The structure

What is needed to feel pain is actually not that much. A functioning hypothalamus... check. A sensory nerve so it can transmit signals to the hypothalamus... check. And motor nerves to get the data from the sensory nerve and shoot it to the hypothalamus... check [5]. Based on the structure it makes sense fetuses could feel pain.

2. The reaction

The reaction is the key factor in this. When you poke a baby and it feels pain, it retracts the poked area and opens its mouth to cry. A fetus, when you poke it and it hurts, it retracts its hand and opens its mouth to [silently] cry. *:(* Also when you are in pain the heart rate temporarily increases. This same reaction occurs amongst fetuses [5]. This picture illustrates the point:



Source: See footnote 5.

3. Brain receptors

You can accuratly measure pain from the neuro receptors. When certian charges are discharged it means the nerve are saying "it HURTS!!". When a fetus is poked by a needle, these charges are emited meaning it is likely fetuses have some concption of pain.

4. How abortion is done

Here is how abortion is done.


http://www.debate.org...

That would be extremely painful, like someone ripping off your leg. This right here, even if a fetus does not feel pain, is disturbing. But the pain part makes it even worse. Basically he is chopped up by scissors and pulled out of the vagina. Also the head is crushed then yanked out.
D:
:(
>:O
--> Pro-life :)

5. What the science says

My hero said this:

"When the lives of the unborn are snuffed out, they often feel pain, pain that is long and agonizing." -- REAGAN!!!

And this caused many people to think he knew nothing about science. But the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology agreed. They stated, "Real time ultrasonography, fetoscopy, study of the fetal EKG (electrocardiogram) and fetal EEG (electroencephalogram) have demonstrated the remarkable responsiveness of the human fetus to pain, touch, and sound. [...] responds to changes in light intensity within the womb, to heat, to cold, and to taste (by altering the chemical nature of the fluid swallowed by the fetus) [...]"[5]

*Objection, Pain is phsycological*

This objection would mean the fetus would not likely feel pain as it would not be observed. And observations are essential in this argunment. But pain is not just phsycological, there is a large neurologial component to it that gives the person the ability to enter the phsycological actions to the pain [6]. In other words. neurology controls the phsycology.

*Objection, Cerebral cortex is needed!!*

The cerebral cortex is needed for thinking, not pain. Pain is a reaction that is an instinct controlled by the thalmus and therefore requires no though [5].

CONCLUSION:

Pros case = Weak and refuted
Cons case = Strong and [hpefully] standing
Vote pro
out of room

Sources:
[1] http://tinyurl.com...
[2] http://tinyurl.com...
[3] http://tinyurl.com...
[4] http://tinyurl.com...
[5] http://tinyurl.com...
[6] Lubeskind, "Psychology & Physiology of Pain," Amer. Review Psychology, 1977
Debate Round No. 1
wize_mon

Pro

You're argument uses lots of high falutin langage, but I still thinj abortion is a right! A fetus is not a person, it is just a fetus! How would you like to have someone tell you you cannot control your own body I dont that you would like it very much would you???? If someone tresspases in my house shouldt I be able to kill them?? YES! So abortion should be legal And what do you man "It is already a rational being, but at a different level of development."??? It is not ratonal!!! its just a cell! Also wo cares if the fettus feeals pain?/ Women feelore pain in childbirth!!! and any way it is dead so it cant feel pain once idead.

what you mean refuted??! My case is just as strong as yours!
16kadams

Con

[--Right to abortion--]

My opponent has failed to provide an argunment here and instead just says he still thinks its a right. Not only is this false based on my points above, but it is a mere assertion only backed by opinion.

The right to abortion usually goes into Roe v. Wade argunments and Doe v. Bolton argunments. Justice White notes critiquing the majority opinion in Doe:

"I find nothing in the language or history of the Constitution to support the Court's judgment. The Court simply fashions and announces a new constitutional right for pregnant mothers [410 U.S. 222] and, with scarcely any reason or authority for its action, invests that right with sufficient substance to override most existing state abortion statutes. . . . As an exercise of raw judicial power, the Court perhaps has authority to do what it does today; but, in my view, its judgment is an improvident and extravagant exercise of the power of judicial review that the Constitution extends to this Court.[1]"

In relation to Roe v. Wade, the more famous one, White says:

"In every other case, there was something in the Constitution you could point to for support. There, nothing."[1]

In other words, there is no constitutional or legal right to an abortion and the courts opinion here was unfounded on constitutional law.

[--Fetus a human--]

My opponent has still failed to prove a fetus is not a human and continues with the illogical unsupported assertions. As French geneticists note:

"To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion. The human nature of the human being from conception to old age is not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence. [2]"

My opponent has still failed to offer evidence.

A fetus is rational as it has the capability to be rational. My opponent used a Strawman on this point.

[--Pain--]

My opponent argues it doesn't matter if you feel pain, then compares childbirth. False analogy, abortion always kills, birth does not.

Further the golden rule states, treat others the way you would like to be treated. Therefore pain is of all relevancy to morality. If you say kill the baby, you better say yes if someone asks to rip off your limbs, crush your head, and yank you through a vagina.

Conclusion:

Resolution remains negated...

{1} http://www.endroe.org...
{2} http://www.christiananswers.net...
Debate Round No. 2
wize_mon

Pro

You are oviously a good dbetor who cares alot about this. You win.
16kadams

Con

Wow, thanks.... I appreciate that (not the FF part :P).

I urge voters to vote CON
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by jgku 4 years ago
jgku
The debate about pro-choice and pro-life is a very controversial topic in society today. I am conducting some research on personal views pertaining to this topic. Please take some time to fill out this very short survey. All information you provide will remain anonymous. Thank you!
http://tolu.na...
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by KeytarHero 5 years ago
KeytarHero
wize_mon16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited, but Con's case was much stronger anyway. Clear choice here.
Vote Placed by SkepticsAskHere 5 years ago
SkepticsAskHere
wize_mon16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro never really refuted Con's arguments.... and he also declared him opponent the victor
Vote Placed by sensibletheism909 5 years ago
sensibletheism909
wize_mon16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con is the obvious winner of this debate, pro didn't even present arguments, con gave a clear and coherent case against the position pro was trying to hold.
Vote Placed by AlwaysMoreThanYou 5 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
wize_mon16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Obvious win is obvious