The Instigator
hopester1111
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
patrick967
Con (against)
Winning
25 Points

Abortion is murder.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
patrick967
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/15/2014 Category: People
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 762 times Debate No: 59001
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (5)

 

hopester1111

Pro

First round is acceptance.
patrick967

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
hopester1111

Pro

Reason #1 for why abortion is murder:

A baby is just beginning to be developed and then dies for absolutely no reason because of the person/mother making that mistake to not use protection or such. This in other terms, is like taking a cat or animal and having it be an outdoor pet. Say you have a cat and let it outside so it is an outdoors cat. This cat could get pregnant and then be stuck with their babies anyway, so the only possible way is adoption. Unless you use the term "animal cruelty" and kill it yourself. That's my belief with human babies as well. If they are killed, this is set as cruelty in my book.
patrick967

Con

Thanks to pro for challenging me to this debate. I will now state my case why abortion is not murder.

1. The zygote doesn't know it exists
If you discover you're pregnant and get an abortion early first trimester, say the third week, your baby is no more than two cells. It has no heart, nervous system, brain or lungs. The brain doesn't start developing until the 7th week. Even then, the baby is no bigger than a pencil eraser. It is not self-aware. It's the equivalent of killing a bacteria cell.

2. It's not functioning as fully as a born human, so it cannot be defined as human
The heart doesn't start pumping blood until the 6th week, the brain is non-existent until week 7[1], you could say you're not even killing anything. (I got all of the information for these two points from one website)

I will now state reasons a mother would choose to get an abortion rather than give the baby up for adoption.

1. It's cheaper to get an abortion

Depending on what week you get it in during the first trimester, an abortion can cost as little as $350 to over $1,000[2]. It may seem like a lot, but the cost to give birth in a hospital with a C-section was $17,509. Complications would raise the bill to an astonishing $25,433. A natural birth without complications would cost you $10,197. Again, complications would rack up the cost to $13,830[3].

2. The mother may not have a steady job/life

Taking the cost of giving birth and comparing it to the cost of abortion, a woman earning minimum wage would not want her baby to be born into a life of poverty or have to pay for a pregnancy she couldn't afford.


3. The mother may be too young

A girl may be raped and she is pregnant. She has two options: Go through nine months of carrying around a baby (including going to school with it) or get an abortion. It may be easier to shell out the dough to give birth to a baby just to give it up for adoption, or it could be easier to have an abortion.


I hand the debate over to pro.
Debate Round No. 2
hopester1111

Pro

1. "The zygote doesn't know it exists" For this statement I disagree. The baby may be a cell, but it is still a living thing. Plants are cells, and we still decide to have them right? Right. Babies aren't just toys where you can do whatever you want to them and be perfectly fine with killing it. That is murder.

1. "It's cheaper to get an abortion" Lies my friend. Lies. Putting a baby up for a adoption is tons cheaper. Pay the fee and you are fine. Plus, it's not like you will have the baby long after giving birth to it. I'm not saying as soon as you have it it can go up for adoption either though.

2. The mother may not have a steady job/life: The mother made that mistake in the first place for having the child unless she was raped. If raped, I'm 50% with abortion. You've got the idea of losing the life once again because of abortion, but you've also got the idea of having a child you don't want and just putting it up for adoption.

I hand the debate over to the con side.
patrick967

Con

I apologize for not stating my sources in the second round. Here they are:
[1]-http://www.mayoclinic.org......
[2]-https://www.google.com......
[3]-http://transform.childbirthconnection.org......

"Plants are cells, and we still decide to have them right?" Actually, plants are not cells. Plants are otherwise known as producers, and we keep them around because they take in carbon dioxide and give off oxygen. We take in oxygen and give off carbon dioxide. We both need each other to live. However, that is not the same thing with pregnancy. Plants can produce their own food, any human can't. A mother doesn't need a baby, but a baby needs its mother.

Pro has failed to fill her burden of proof, as such, points should go to me. It was nice debating you, hopester.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ArcTImes 2 years ago
ArcTImes
@hopester1111
Or they could be a no one, someone that didn't do anything to history. Stop playing with the fate of an hypothetical being. It doesn't matter, that doesn't make abortion murder.
Posted by YaHey 2 years ago
YaHey
They could grow up in a broken system, or live with parents that didn't want the baby and cant afford to have it.
Posted by patrick967 2 years ago
patrick967
Whatever you want to think.
Posted by hopester1111 2 years ago
hopester1111
Albert Einstein, Amelia Earhart, and Abraham Lincoln combined.
Posted by patrick967 2 years ago
patrick967
Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined.
Posted by hopester1111 2 years ago
hopester1111
Albert Einstein.
Posted by patrick967 2 years ago
patrick967
Or Hitler.
Posted by hopester1111 2 years ago
hopester1111
Or they could be like the great Albert Einstein
Posted by ArcTImes 2 years ago
ArcTImes
"They could be a president they could be anything."

Yeah, they could be Hitler.
Posted by hopester1111 2 years ago
hopester1111
You're taking a life. It's bad enough that children are being starved and now you want to kill the ones who haven't even had a chance at life? They could be a president they could be anything. They could mean SOMETHING to the world. Mr. Star did not represent a good backup statement on plants being cells. In the following source I wrote in the comments it is said that plants are in fact cells. Eukaryotic cells to be exact.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Free_Th1nker 2 years ago
Free_Th1nker
hopester1111patrick967Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: I agree with the sentiments posted by other voters. Pro did not fulfill BoP.
Vote Placed by YaHey 2 years ago
YaHey
hopester1111patrick967Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro only made appeals to abortion and nonsensical arguments like "Plants are cells and we keep them" which completely ignores the real problem in that killing these plants wouldnt be considered murder and we have the option to have plants or not. Con showed that a zygote isnt a person and therefore cannot be murdered. Con used more sources and non from Wikipedia.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
hopester1111patrick967Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: (pro) failed to prove BOP
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
hopester1111patrick967Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro failed BOP. If abortion is murder, it is always murder. Con proved otherwise.
Vote Placed by Mray56 2 years ago
Mray56
hopester1111patrick967Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro based his arguments comparing human life to plants and animals. Human life, as we consider, are separate beings and are to be treated differently. So this didn't fulfil the BOP. Con provided sources as pro didn't