The Instigator
Emmo
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points
The Contender
justin.graves
Con (against)
Losing
8 Points

Abortion is not murder, and cannot be regarded as murder

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Emmo
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/17/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,103 times Debate No: 33816
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (4)

 

Emmo

Pro

Abortion cannot be regarded as murder, because firstly you cannot regard as a fetus as a human being, it is just that a fetus. The fetus can only be regarding as a human being and worthy of protection of the right to life when it takes its first breathe a separated from its mother (when the umbilical cord is cut off) and is essentially living on its own without any external aide. Furthermore to consider abortion murder would be robbing the mother of her right to bodily integrity and to choose whether or not she wants to keep the baby. After all it is her body and baby, who are we as society to tell her what not to do and what to do in this regard
justin.graves

Con

Accepted
1. "The fetus can only be regarding as a human being... when it... is essentially living... without any external aide."
So my opponent's definition of human life is when the baby can breathe and on its own. Astronauts can't breathe on their own in space without external help, neither can babies outside their natural habitat.
2. "to consider abortion murder would be robbing the mother of her right..."
So my opponent thinks abortion isn't murder because it would keep a mother from killing the child? What?
My contention:
A baby in the womb contains human DNA, has a heartbeat, and is growing. It looks human and is genetically human. Look at the abortion photos. Sickening. Abortion is murder.

Debate Round No. 1
Emmo

Pro

"The fetus can be regarded as a human being"- astronauts are regarded as human beings, reasons need not be provided for this assertion as Pro's initial arguments speaks for itself. A fetus is not a baby, it is not human, it lacks the capacity to survive on its own, a human being's natural habitat is not inside a woman in a womb, it is outside, human being can breath, murder is regarded as intentionally killing a human being, it is not so broad as to include killing a non human organism such as a fetus. Also at what point should we regard the fetus as living, if we're going to regard it as a human being capable of being murdered, should we not then afford it with all other rights afforded to human beings, such as the right to dignity?
justin.graves

Con

Human definition:
1: of, relating to, or characteristic of humans
2: consisting of humans
3 : having human form or attributes
Webster Dictionary

See video and think about it. A growing organism with human DNA... meaning that it has characteristics. Most abortions happen after week one and before week 9. The period in that video. The baby has human-like organs and human DNA and looks very human by the end. It is obviously human.
http://www.abort73.com...

If the baby is human, which it is by definition, then murder applies to its wrongful death. It should also have the "right to dignity." Meaning murder certainly does apply to it. The baby in the womb has every right as baby outside the womb.
Debate Round No. 2
Emmo

Pro

Definition of human being (more technical than human therefore more appropriate):
a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance.
Oxford
-Fetus does not meet these requirements set= not a human being
-Apes also have characteristics of humans, and DNA over 98% similar does that make them human?
-If a fetus has the right to dignity, wouldn't this mean that mother's would be prohibited from smoking and excessive alcohol consumption
-fetus only begins to appear remotely human at week 11
http://www.embryo.chronolab.com...
-who should be charged with murder, mother or doctor= legal uncertainty
justin.graves

Con

Funny, my second video did not get posted. Anywho. Here it is.


Looks human to me. Now, let's look at my opponent's definition of human. That doesn't apply to toddlers! Do by my opponent's definition, toddlers should be killed. There seems to be no good definition for "human" which is where the controversy comes in. I would say an unborn child is human because it is a growing being with human DNA. Simply underdeveloped.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by justin.graves 4 years ago
justin.graves
You're telling me. Re-challenge me later.
Posted by justin.graves 4 years ago
justin.graves
Emmo, you are right.
Posted by Emmo 4 years ago
Emmo
i think i shouldn't have limited the arguments to 750 words i had so much more to write
Posted by Magic8000 4 years ago
Magic8000
@thp078

Ok, I'm pro abortion, but that comment was just uncalled for.

Con's contentions are basically an appeal to emotion. Pro means by the definition of human life, being on its own. The baby can't live without its mother's body. When it's out, it doesn't biologically need its mother. Which makes it different from killing a person and is up to the mother.
Posted by thp078 4 years ago
thp078
Yeah, probably. But as the saying goes "nothing is sacred."
Posted by justin.graves 4 years ago
justin.graves
You are sick.
Posted by thp078 4 years ago
thp078
After seeing that video, I kind of want some jelly donuts...
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Skeptikitten 4 years ago
Skeptikitten
Emmojustin.gravesTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro provided the standard definition for human being, while Con didn't refute it but only claimed it wasn't true. Con's argument was essentially just an Appeal to Emotion fallacy, ie "look at these horrible pictures", rather than making a logical argument for a fetus being considered fully human. Con failed to demonstrate that abortion is "murder", since "murder" is defined as the ILLEGAL killing of a PERSON with malice aforethought- since abortion is not illegal and personhood is a legal definition referring to post-birth humans, his argument does not qualify.
Vote Placed by AgentRocks 4 years ago
AgentRocks
Emmojustin.gravesTied
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Total points awarded:43 
Reasons for voting decision: Con is true, but Pro still has convincing Arguments.
Vote Placed by philochristos 4 years ago
philochristos
Emmojustin.gravesTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Both debaters seemed to agree that murder is killing a human. They disagreed on whether the unborn are human. Pro offered criteria that Con did not refute. Con offered criteria that Pro did refute.
Vote Placed by Gondun 4 years ago
Gondun
Emmojustin.gravesTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: None of the definitions for human excluded a fetus without excluding some humans after birth. Con had some nice pictures.