The Instigator
nohandlebars
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
DudeStop
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Abortion is ok

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/31/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 926 times Debate No: 43174
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (0)

 

nohandlebars

Con

Abortion, thanks for accepting and I can't promise utter respect b/c this is a very sensitive topic for me

First round is acceptance
second round Is our opening arguments
third round is rebuttals
fourth round is closing statements, no new arguments please.
DudeStop

Pro

I will take on the challenge, as your devils advocate.

BoP is on con to show why it's immoral or wrong, and I need to refute her arguments.

Thank You con.
Debate Round No. 1
nohandlebars

Con


All of my information is correct, and I give the sources but I do admit that not all the sources are listed at the bottom due to internet failures deleting the sites before they were listed. If you are skeptical about something, google it, and if the answers still are not found you are welcome to use in your rebuttals.


Abortion is not okay for several reasons.

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From cell one to after childbirth, the baby is alive.


As I've addressed previously, the government/society still needs to determine what is alive, and what is not. I've heard many pro-abortion arguments that reason with,
"The infant is not alive until ______ weeks, and therefore abortion is not murder."


If society determined that something is alive by the heartbeat, brain, consciousness or intelligence our own animal kingdom would have to be rewritten.


Bacteria, and single cell organisms are considered alive. Why aren't infants before their heart starts to beat or before their brain is completely developed? "Life" Is determined by 3 requirements:


(1) Reproduce

(2) Respond to external stimuli through internal mechanisms.

(3) Metabolize energy from the environment for its own uses.


All three qualities are required to be considered alive. A single celled human cannot reproduce, but all humans even after being born have to reach a certain age to be sexually mature, same as any other living creature. A 4 year old is still considered to be alive. An embryo also undergoes the cell cycle, reproducing. In either scenario, reproducing/reproducing is not an issue.


The second requirement means that the organism must respond to something in our environment or surroundings by it's internal design. Fetuses have already completed this demand as a single cell. If the womb is too hot, their movement will increase. Same if their environment is too cold. Maybe not noticeably to the mother or spectator(s), but under a microscope it would be observable, just like any other single celled creature. This is often overlooked. With the advent of sonograms and live-action ultrasound images, neonatologists and nurses are able to see unborn babies at 20 weeks gestation or younger react physically to outside stimuli such as sound, light and touch. The sense of touch is so acute that even a single human hair drawn across an unborn child's palm causes the baby to make a fist. (that was copied and pasted and the resources are listed at the bottom)The third requirement is obvious, the fetus consumes the molecules of the food through the mother. This is how it functions like a human that is out of the womb. One may argue that since the fetus is dependent on the mother, the fetus is unqualified for the third requirement. But I would like to draw this to the analogy of a coma patient dependent on the machines and tubes to keep him/her alive. The patient is completely helpless, like a fetus, and the machines are what keep the patient alive. I find the circumstances to prove my point are almost exactly similar, and yet the coma patient is still considered alive, despite being brain dead (Which in this analogy is irrelevant because that's the cause of dependency on the machines/tubes)


This any given time when the egg is fertilized, the embryo is alive. By abortion, you are killing the embryo, and you are murdering the unborn child, which is against the law and illegal.



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Abortion should be illegal unless it occurs as the result of a medical intervention performed to save the life of the mother. (Wikipedia, Ireland laws)


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What about rape?

In case of rape, it should still be illegal. If it is because of the memory and psychological damage, it could still psychologically damage the pregnant women to have abortion, as 20% of women after abortion start to show signs of suicidal behavior, start the use of drugs and even commit suicide. 1/3 of rape victims already start to develop suicidal thoughts, imagine if you combined them it would cause even more physiologic damage, you wouldn't just add the psychological damage, you'd practically multiply it. I would have given more closer accurate percentages but the sources for what I was looking for was very slim. Giving birth to a child and having abnormal thoughts would be natural for feelings because of all the hormones rushing throughout a woman's body, but would eventually fade, and resolve back into the emotional trauma suffered during rape. At least, this is my theory and stands correct unless you can prove otherwise.



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Babies can feel pain in the womb, but cannot feel pain during abortion.


I've heard this before, and I wanted to clear this up. Just because babies can feel pain in the womb is also , not an excuse to cut it out of its misery. In reality, about 20 weeks the baby has the full quantity of brain cells that are presented in adulthood, and can absolutely feel pain. Dr. Paul Ranalli, neurologist University of Toronto, says that babies experience pain more intensely than an adult. In abortion, sometimes they even have to give an unborn child anesthesia at younger ages than 20 weeks because the pain of abortion they wiggle at the pain making it impossible to inject him/her with chemicals or to grasp the babies with sharp metal objects in order to twist, and tear the unborn infant out of the womb.


Not only this but many abortionist have seen the babies move and wiggle to try to get away from objects during abortion because of the pain.


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It's not 'human' and is just a group of unorganized cells.


Usually I am able to see the core of the argument inside a person, but with this one I cannot. A father and mother bring together 23 chromosomes together, which makes a human. Yes, there are other creatures with a total of 46 chromosomes like a zebra. But in our chromosomes, is our genes and DNA. Our DNA sequence is who we are, and distinguishes us from other species. Even a single celled fetus has its own DNA, making it a person. As I've explained before it is alive, and not just cells.



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Abortion is safer for the mother than childbirth.


Organizations such as the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease said that abortion is 14x safer than childbirth. In reality, it is not and there is no scientific evidence to back it up. Any evidence is skeptical because there are only voluntary submissions by state health departments. Some states who report for Centers of Disease and planned parenthood, (who actually make money off of this) do not report statistics that could determine the truth about abortion safety to national health organizations. Also, abortion is not safe for the child living inside of their mother’s womb.



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The mother or parent is not ready because financial issues?


In a debate you must consider something from the other person's view. I ask you to look at this through my view.


A couple, have sex. Let's say this is the cause. The effect is pregnancy. There's no argument right? That's how babies are made am I wrong? Every single time you have sex, there is always a chance of pregnancy. That's why there are methods you can take to prevent it. Examples are condoms, pills, calendar dates, special devices inserted into the uterus, etc there are dozens of ways to protect. Abortion should not. It should not be a method or an emergency use for late periods.

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If the child is unwanted, then you can give your baby up for adoption afterwards.


Pro-choice


Many men and women are pro-choice because they believe that women should have the freedom to do what they want with their bodies. Don't get me wrong, I agree. (just maybe not as passionate) That's why women and men are welcomed to tattoos, piercings and any other things we/they may desire, but there is one problem. In the 9th amendment it states: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. To abort an unborn infant, you are depriving him/her of their right to life, in which every American citizen is given.


Sources:

http://blogs.howstuffworks.com...


http://en.wikipedia.org...://

www.tfpstudentaction.org/politically-incorrect/abortion/life-begins-at-the-beginning.htmlhttp


://zyxo.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/list-of-animal-species-with-46-chromosomes/http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov...://


www.wrtl.org/abortion/babiesfeelpain.aspx


http://www.tfpstudentaction.org...


http://www.ewtnnews.com...


http://www.fundabortionnow.org...


DudeStop

Pro

DudeStop forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
nohandlebars

Con

nohandlebars forfeited this round.
DudeStop

Pro

This debate was cancelled...

No handlebars account was closed.
Debate Round No. 3
nohandlebars

Con

nohandlebars forfeited this round.
DudeStop

Pro

Yet again, look to above for solution. Please do not vote on this.
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DudeStop 3 years ago
DudeStop
Do tie's affect my elo ranking?
Posted by Buckethead31594 3 years ago
Buckethead31594
Let the pres know, he'll remove the debate.
Posted by DudeStop 3 years ago
DudeStop
No need to apologize.
Posted by nohandlebars 3 years ago
nohandlebars
sorry for the spaces
Posted by DudeStop 3 years ago
DudeStop
Hey, then I get conduct so it works for me :)
Posted by nohandlebars 3 years ago
nohandlebars
Perlas, chill.
Posted by Perlas 3 years ago
Perlas
"Abortion, thanks for accepting and I can't promise utter respect b/c this is a very sensitive topic for me"
If you can't even promise respect before even starting a debate, why are you debating at all? I'm sorry, but that's a clear sign of immaturity at it's finest. I don't care about your view point on the position, but you need to be rational and calm when making a point and not feel the need to even consider attacking your opponent with words before even starting.
Posted by zendown 3 years ago
zendown
Yes I most certainly did because it was a pertinent post for this issue & I realized two things just now: 1: the other debate was totally abandoned and my point was at least worth a gander on this issue, 2; I want to apologize to you. I knew you were young but I did not know you were only 14 years old. I was harsh. You are very smart. But you do need to calm down and not mistake being nasty and distracting with having " aggressive opinions." It's better to from a logical opinion than simply name-call or threaten. Not everyone will agree with you in this life and sometimes there is no "winning." Get use to it. I am NOT going to contribute to this further. But do yourself a favor and try not to stink up this one like you did the last. No one wants to be in a conversation with a rabid dog. Not because you're so brilliant we can't compete, but because it's horribly distracting and has NOTHING to do with the issue. Logic & emotion can work well together if balance is imposed. Good luck to you. Remember: Believing one already "knows" destroys discovery and creativity. Z
Posted by nohandlebars 3 years ago
nohandlebars
you just copied and pasted that
Posted by zendown 3 years ago
zendown
The question of right and wrong on this issue seems a little absurd. It is very much like asking if killing is right or wrong. Killing is almost always considered "bad," but as a society we agree upon circumstances upon which killing is deemed "necessary." We constantly abuse or amend the very definition of a Jesus inspired "wrong," and justify it as appropriate for our survival or circumstances all the time. We have dropped atom bombs on non-military populations and started pre-emptive wars which have killed hundreds of thousands of women and children without question. Those who blabber about the "cruel murder of the yet unborn" almost categorically have little or no compunction about the mass slaughter of the already born provided the circumstances can be justified comfortably within their rather schizophrenic moral code.

We DO murder and kill all the time. Just about no one follows the Jesus path which states killing is absolutley "wrong." In HIS case there were no "special circumstances" including war. We kill if it means we can hold on to our power as a nation or as individuals.

Few women on this planet desire or relish the prospect of having an abortion. The idea of "pro-choice" is far different than "pro-abortion." Pro-choice implies the freedom to make a hard choice under special unpleasant circumstances. It"s not a baby killing party as some would like to frame. Pointing to the incredibly very few women who don"t care about life at all is like saying ALL insane soldiers who have gone mad on a killing rampage in a village are emblematic of all soldiers. Is killing wrong? Is abortion wrong? Seems the circumstance should dictate the answer. Current Constitutional rulings (Row / Wade)seems to have made a reasonable LEGAL "marker" for an abortion choice.
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