The comment section wasn't working. I wanted to continue our discussion because you brought up good points and I want to understand where your coming from. I also want to stick up for a the innocent victims of abortion.
I wouldn't get pregnant at 15. I'm not a slu*. If I did get pregnant as a teen I would keep my baby. If a girl doesn't want the baby she can give it up. If a girl chooses to sleep around than she should suffer the consequences for her own actions. The baby shouldn't suffer because of the moms mistake.
abortion is a woman's right to choose if a woman makes that choice for whatever reason she should not be shamed and made to feel like an outcast you can say what you like about how girls shouldn't sleep around and use birth control and I agree however birth control does sometimes fail condoms do tear and sometimes people have a moment of weakness and get swept up in the moment and have unprotected sex and particularly if the girl is very young such as a teenager or financially unfit she may seek an abortion. For many women this seems like the only option yes you can adoption but then foster homes will be full of unwanted children that will bounce from home to home what kind of life is that for a child? not to mention the pain of having to carry a baby for nine months all the doctors appointments and ultrasounds only to watch it go to somebody else when a woman has an abortion she doesn't have to worry about that she doesn't know the gender of the baby or what it looks like. Furthermore in a scientific matter a fetus or an embryo is not a baby it is not yet a living breathing human being it is simply a mass of cells that yes will develop into a baby at a later stage which is why I'm against late term abortion unless for medical reasons but at an early stage is simply a mass of cells there is no difference between a human embryo and a tadpole they look exactly the same you can't tell the difference the only difference is one will grow to be a frog and one a baby and as far as the case of rape goes well ask yourself this if a man rapes me and I become pregnant do I really want to carry this man's baby? some will say yes because it's not the baby's fault I agree but at the same time the mother is already going through emotional and psychological pain due to the rape do we really want to subject her to going through the emotional turmoil of carrying for a baby she didn't ask for? or what if your father raped you for years on end and you become pregnant do you really want to carry his child and raise your child/sibling? what if you went and had your first ultrasound and the doctors told you your baby was gonna have down syndrome or autism or be mentally retarded would you choose to bring that child into the world knowing the challenges that they are going to face? in order to understand abortion one must ask themselves these questions put yourself in someone Else's shoes and learn empathy in order to understand maybe if people didn't have so many children that couldn't afford we wouldn't have a population crisis and people wouldn't live in extreme poverty and yes birth control would cut down on it but birth control in 3rd world countries is harder to get access plus you got a group of people who will refuse to take it due to old traditions. But even here in the western world there seems to be this stigma associated with birth control Catholics for example still want to follow the doctrine of banning birth control despite the fact that most practicing Catholics in Europe and America use birth control and while in places like Mexico and South America still do not well I say look where that's got them poverty stricken and having children they cannot afford so again I say is abortion wrong if a woman in Guatemala with 5 hungry children already living in a hut making 1 dollar a day becomes pregnant and gets an abortion is she wrong? should she have had the child instead and been that much poorer? because let me tell you I wouldn't want to put my child in a 3rd world orphanage they are horrible and the children become miserable. By telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies you are basically saying that it really doesn't matter what the woman wants it's all about a fetus's rights woman have had to fight long and hard in America for their rights the right to vote to work to dress how they choose why do they now have to fight to not carry fetus's inside of them if they choose why do they have to fight to get access for birth control because there employers refuse to cover it? If you want less abortions make birth control more accessible or give these poor women day care vouchers Medicaid food stamps etc so that they can raise their children without being in a pile of bills and stress and for god sake's stop standing out abortions clinics screaming and harassing these women who are making that choice it will actually make people more determined to have an abortion not to mention makes you look very foolish and hateful and what gets me is many are Christian church groups I mean how unchristian can you get? I don't think there's an easy explanation of what to do with those people but I do know that we have to do something. I truly believe if you want to cut down on abortions birth control is the answer however I just don't think a woman should be shamed for it and even if we made it illegal there's no way of stopping it even when it was illegal women used to get them they would go to back Ally's and many women died from complications or they would concoct some kind of natural medicine and take it to expel the baby often these would cause damage to the uterus and make the woman unable to have any more children but even if everything was fine would that not be considered an abortion? so you can really say that women never used to have abortions or wanted that choice I really believe that this has become rooted in religion which contrary to some people's beliefs we do not base our laws on which is why abortion is legal and it is absolutely unconstitutional for these states in the south to be shutting them down by doing that you are taking away a woman's right to choose a woman's right to not be stuck with a child and a woman's right to do what she pleases with her body. Men should not get a say in this men will never understand because they are not the ones who get pregnant they have no idea what it's like to be young and struggling with a child a man has a choice to stay and help raise the child or leave the woman does not have such a choice and yet we allow all these men in congress to tell us what we can and can't do why should some old man I don't know and will never meet be able to make my reproductive choices for me? and what's so bad is that there are very naive women and they listen to these politicians and just believe them and never research for themselves and those are the people that scare me you have to research things you can;t allow the media to influence all your decision making but I digress back to the topic on hand as long as the abortion is done at a clinic with a proper doctor clean equipment and the woman is not forced such as in china then I see no problem with it and there's no point in all this torture women seeking abortions have to go through such as getting an ultrasound before her abortion it is a completely unnecessary and costly expense and everyone knows their ulterior motives behind it which is what makes it so bad at least be honest and say that you want to try to convince her to keep the baby by making her look at an ultrasound rather then it's for her health because any doctor will tell you that that is just untrue. Abortion keeps many children from growing up either in foster homes or in abusive neglectful dirty poor homes where not only that child will suffer but will be more attracted to crime welfare etc and lets be honest many of the same people who oppose abortion also oppose welfare and food stamps which doesn't make one bit of sense to me how do they expect these mothers to keep their babies and then live in such desperate poverty? At the end of the day, a mother has to go through the actual labor pain and other issues involved with parenting and juggling responsibilities others can"t precisely gauge or understand the level of trauma that a woman may be experiencing in her personal life. She is the only person who knows best, if she would be able to take care of the unplanned child. and i rest my case k
Thanks for debating with me!
A fetus can feel pain. It's a human. They also can remember voices. When I was a fetus me and my twin sister would play together. My dad would talk to us and when we were born and we heard his voice we both looked at him because we recognized it. A way to prevent unwanted pregnancy is to use birth control (educate high schoolers about his to use condoms properly ect) and to not sleep around with whoever you feel like. Irresponsible actions come with consequences and a consequence for sleeping around is becoming pregnant. It is unfair for the girl to have to carry the baby to term especially if she was raped. It's more unfair for the baby to die because of the mother and/or fathers actions. How would you feel if you were a rape result and the only reason you existed was because your mother was forced to keep you? It's better to exist and have gotten here under bad circumstances than to not exist and to not have a chance in this world. I would carry a baby even if it was a rape result. It's my baby. Punish the rapist. Don't punish the baby for the fathers actions. It's not the baby's fault the father was a rapist. Mentally retarted and autistic people have rights. I know many mentally challenged people. They're kind and polite and though they can't see the world the way we do they deserve a chance to be in it. I understand that we have a big population and I think we should stop this whole non sense with welfare so these women will stop having all these kids (more kids more welfare money) and so that we stop paying them to drink beer and sleep around with our hard owned money. We should educate teens about birth control. We don't need to kill baby's. Birth control is completely ok. Morning after pills are wrong in my opinion but we Should allow them. Everyone deserves a chance. Poor or rich. I've never protested outside an abortion/murderer clinic even though I want to. Some women change their minds because they see our sighns with pictures of murdered baby's or they get an ultra sound and see their child and they realize that they cant kill it. I'm not Christian but I've had to deal with those types many times. They come to our festivals and scream and hold up signs. It's very annoying and to some extent creepy. Not everyone is Christian so to connect with more people and save more baby's religion should be left out of it. Were not trying to scare these women or make them mad. Were sticking up for the voiceless. Were sticking up for baby's. Were trying to save them. If you knew there was a building where women would take innocent children to be killed wouldn't you want to save them?. If your going to kill a baby you should be able to look at a sighn that shows the action your about to do. For example if your gonna send a drone to Pakistan and kill innocent people than you should be able to look at pictures of dead kids. My stance on abortion has nothing to do with religion. If I were an atheist I would still feel the way I do. My religion shouldn't control your life unless you do something that harms someone else than I can step in and stop you and save the baby. It's not her choice. No ones life should be in someone else's hands. Everyone deserves a chance. Even if their mothers are lazy slu*s on welfare who never passed the 9th grade, can't talk right, eat unhealthy and don't know anything ( going to public school since kindergarten I know these types really well). They're mostly fat, stupid and rude and while I don't want my hard earned money to pay for them to sleep Around and be fat and lazy (while they are physically capable of getting a job but they choose to make me work for them) they still deserve a chance. Maybe they'll get through high school and learn proper English and choose to work for their own money instead of making others work for it..Maybe they won't become lazy drunks like their moms. Sorry for the rant) What if your sister was gonna kill your nephew or niece? Or your mom was gonna
kill your sibling? Wouldn't you want to save them?. There's not a war on women. There's a war on baby's.
Happy July 4th!. :)
ok so for the topic of this round I may have to switch topics slightly because I think I've said all my arguments in the first round dilara how can you say you are against welfare when the very people who often have abortions are people who if they had chosen to keep their babies would most likely be receiving welfare? By saying this you are actually going to cause more women to get abortions because they don't want to bring children into the world in which they can't afford the fact of the matter most women having unplanned pregnancies are poor unwed mothers who often have no high school diploma or college education these are the very women that need welfare the most and yes we have all heard of those mothers who are lazy drink too much and don't raise there kids but are collecting welfare but this does not represent the majority of women on welfare it's just that when people think welfare that's automatically who they jump to which for me at least gets very tiring to hear. Many women who collect welfare are simply people struggling it's hard out here especially for single mothers and people who do not have a college degree but to be honest even married couples and people who have master degrees it can be very difficult day care costs are rising people can't afford houses they can't afford food the cost of everything is rising these days. So with all this going on you can certainly see why many women chose to have abortions because I know if I was not a selfish person and unable to care properly for a baby I would have an abortion rather then bring a baby into the world which cannot care for and what strikes me as so odd if that the very people out at abortion clinics screaming at women that they will go to hell if they abort their baby are the very same people who oppose any kind of welfare services at all which makes absolutely no sense. Instead of screaming at these girls why don't they help them out why don't they open a low cost day care center or offer to help baby sit why don't they pay for the babies food then? Because they don't really care there simply pro birth not pro life once the child is there they really couldn't care less so in effect that does not make you pro life I mean these women must know about how most girls getting pregnant are poor unwed mother who with no education the very recipients of welfare. Honestly the only way to solve the welfare crisis in my opinion is to provide free college so then all people regardless class can go and get a decent education and many colleges now offer day care services for girls who have babies but tuition fees continue to climb keeping the poor out and for girls who do have babies it can be even more difficult because of day care and class hours which keeps them out and they continue to live in poverty and then their children live in poverty and as the studies show poverty begets poverty and often these children also don't attend college have babies at a young age or are more attracted to crime and end up in the prison system. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to raise a child like this and foster homes are no better children bounce from home to home feeling unwanted and unloved and while the majority of foster parents are fine there are those few that only take in children for the money and the children are often abused and neglected and once again become more attracted to crime and often don't go to college or drop out of high school causing poverty all over again the system is broken so all these pro life people claiming adoption not abortion really aren't thinking about how broken the system is and what kind of life children in foster homes have and not all children get adopted especially if instead of abortion all women just put the babies up for adoption the foster homes would be full of of unwanted babies particularly babies with disabilities and minority babies so either the woman gets an abortion or she has the baby and is dependent on welfare. Now I'm not saying that the welfare system is great and it does need to be looked at however without it I don't know how some people would live I believe many children would starve be homeless and go for days without bathing this is why it is essential and have a good welfare system but unfortunately some people do abuse it and those people need to be looked at however we can't take it away from their kids there kids did nothing wrong but unfortunately they often become their parents and end up the same way because it's all they know which is a shame. It would seem that everyone - or at least those paying taxes - wants serious reforms of our welfare system. In fact, it would seem a large percentage of taxpayers would like to just end it completely but everyone deserves food homes etc and most welfare programs require you to work however, the effectiveness of such work requirements depends on the accuracy of the screening mechanism which assigns work requirements. These screening requirements are not always effective The welfare system has also been critiqued as a means to patch up high levels of income equalities that have been generated by the current economic systems which I do believe can be true but for many women it's just enough to keep them afloat many current welfare programs have been built as short-term rather than as permanent institutions. Hence, the bulk of them last for short time spans of about five years only which does help in keeping some people off of it for life Welfare programs are meant to help the most vulnerable and poorest in the society to live and while we always get people who abuse it there's a lot of people who don't get the help they need and often people do not seek welfare because of the social stigma associated with welfare but some people have no choice. Now your probably wondering what all this has to do with abortion well I told u I would switching topics a bit didn't I? But ultimately it all goes back to the topic at hand if you don't women getting abortions then stop cutting welfare and social programs which benefits the children these women decided to have and I talk out of experience my mother is a single mom of 2 daughters and is on food stamps I certainly wouldn't call her a welfare queen it's not like she sits around drinking beer all day however she doesn't work which is a fault but not everyone can work what about people with disabilities or people with physical deformities making it hard to get a job my mother is older and has some teeth missing who would hire her looking like that? there are many women in this predicament and not to mention that we are in a horrible economy and jobs are scarce especially for people who did not finish college so how are they going to compete with all these young able bodied people for many welfare seems the only choice and for the young people who do have sex and get pregnant abortion seems the only option i'm only 18 i just graduated high school i'm single and while i am not at this moment sexually active if i were to have sex and become pregnant i would most likely get an abortion because i don't want to raise a child yet and i don't want to give it up because i don't want my child living in a foster care system and it would upset me greatly to give up my baby that i would love nonetheless. In my opinion abortion would be the less selfish thing my baby may never have a life but at least it wouldn't have the life i had or even worse because we never know what will happen to us in our lives I could end up homeless i could end up a drug addict or alcoholic and I don't want my child to grow up that way and like i said before even if abortion was illegal women would still have them just like in the past at least when abortion is legal it is done safely and less women die or become sterile due to these so called back ally doctors and their inexperience or scamming women are obviously still going to have abortions so it doesn't matter i rest my case k
I'm not completely against welfare. I'm fine with giving my money to people who need it. If you can't work for a good reason or your trying to find work than I'll gladly give you my money. If you choose not to work and use my money for you to be a lazy, drunk, crack head, uneducated, stupid, poor mannered person and do nothing all day even though you can work than I won't give you my money. I'll happily pay for the crack baby's of drunk lazy stupid moms because they're kids and it's not their fault that they're mom is lazy. Remember the more kids a women has the more money she gets. Lots of these women choose to have lots of kids so they can take more of our money.
I would love to open up a place for mothers to live when they have no where else to go. I would like to find women who are going to abortion clinics to kill heir baby's and offer them a place to stay.
You would rather kill your baby than give it up? What if you found a nice couple?. What of your baby would want a chance to be in this world even if they have to go through struggles.
You won't become a drug addict. That's something you can control. Don't take drugs or drink too much alcohol. Becoming homeless...that could happen to anyone.
If a women tries to kill a baby and dies in the process...she shouldn't have had unprotected sex and she shouldn't have tried to murderer a baby. Violence is not the answer. Pro choice people want the baby's to die and pro life people want to protect them.
Reasons for voting decision: As Con forfeited, I give all points to Pro. Even a simple sentence would have changed this. But if Con won't put the time into giving a response, I won't put the time into arguing her case. If needed, RFV can be changed or talked over in the comments.
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