The Instigator
wolf24
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Skepticalone
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Abortion is wrong

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Skepticalone
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/27/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 590 times Debate No: 43016
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

wolf24

Pro

Hello, welcome to this debate on Abortion. I will be taking the stance of pro that abortion is wrong in all cases except when the mother's life is in danger.

Go ahead and make your first argument.

Good luck and lets have a fun debate.
Skepticalone

Con

First off, thank you, Pro, for an interesting topic. Pro states Abortion is wrong in all cases with the only exception being “when the mother’s life is in danger”. I agree, this is a solid reason for an abortion, however, it is too restrictive. In cases of rape or incest abortion should be allowed. To force a woman to carry a rapist or family member‘s unwanted baby in her body for 8-10 months might be construed as a form of mental torture.

I look forward to Pro's argument and rebuttal.

Debate Round No. 1
wolf24

Pro

Ok, I will assume you are taking the stance the only good reasons to have an abortion, are only when the mother's life is at risk, or if the child was conceived in rape or incest. If this is wrong please correct me.

I first like to start out by discussing whether or not the baby inside the womb is human. I start with this because if it is not, my whole argument would fall apart. Human beings have rights, specifically the right to life, so if it's not human, it doesn't have that right and we could justify killing it.

Scientifically, we have proven that the fetus from the moment of conception, is in fact human. This is because at the precise moment when the sperm meets the egg, the living organism now has all 46 chromosomes needed to be classified as a homo sapien sapien (human). Secondly, at that same moment, the fetus now has a complete set of DNA that is 100% unique and different from every other human on the planet. So this means the baby is not the mother's body, but rather its own separate person and has its own rights.

Now to tackle directly the issue of abortion in cases of rape.

If I had a toddler in front of me who was conceived in rape, does anyone have the right to end his life due to the fact his mom remembers the rape when she sees him? We say no to this situation because the toddler is already born and sub-consciously, in our minds, we give him more value than a child in the womb. Yet there is no significant difference between a child in the womb and a newborn out of the womb. There is only a difference of abilities that have yet to be developed. For example, the ability to think and be self-aware. This is an ability developed through time just like the ability to reproduce develops through time in a little girl. But if you say that the fetus is not as valuable due to its lack of development, you say that the 6 year-old girl is less valuable than the 14 year-old girl due to her lack of development. There is no good justification to end a human life- one that was conceived in rape or not- even if that means the mother will have to go through therapy or something else to help relinquish the memory of the rape.

In a nutshell, keeping a human being alive is more important than a human being's feelings or emotions, no matter how difficult the emotions may be. And suppose the mother realizes what happens when she has an abortion? What will happen to her conscience when she realizes that the baby inside of her has been torn to shreds inside of her? How will she handle knowing she may have just ended the life of a boy or girl she could have watched grown up and play baseball or soccer? How much worse would it be for the mother to deal with a murder and a rape?
Skepticalone

Con

We agree on my stance, although I would like to add a time frame if you will permit. I am for abortion in the cases of the mother’s welfare being endangered, rape, and incest, but only if performed within the first 24 weeks of pregnancy.

We also agree the fetus is of the homo sapien sapien (human) species. We do not agree this gives any specific claims to rights. The embryo has not developed to a point it can be considered a fully viable human even if it does have the human DNA. The fetus does not have a heart beat or a fully developed brain until the very end of the first trimester.[1] When the fetus can be taken out of the mother’s body, survive, and have the potential to develop into a fully functioning human then it has reached an age of viability. The age of viability based on the development of the fully formed lungs, to be at or around the 25th week. With this milestone, the fetus has earned all the human rights promised to every other member of the human species. Until that time, the mother’s rights are sovereign since the fetus is an extension of the mother's body.

“…the fetus now has a complete set of DNA that is 100% unique and different from every other human on the planet. So this means the baby is not the mother's body, but rather its own separate person and has its own rights.”

While I agree the fetus has complete DNA uniquely different from all other humans, I cannot agree the it is its own separate person. The baby is not capable of living outside of the mother’s body without extreme intervention from medical science (if at all). It is not a symbiotic relationship, so the fetus cannot have the same amount of bodily rights as the mother since she is doing all the heavy lifting involved in living for two. The embryo is totally dependent on what the mother eats, drinks, smokes, and otherwise ingests. If the mother dies, then the fetus will die. It is not independent from the mother and has absolutely no chance of surviving on its own. If the fetus cannot survive without the mother then it must be viewed as an extension of the mother’s body. You have stated the fetus should have rights exclusive of the mother’s, but we have both agreed the fetus must die if the mother is in danger. This establishes the fetus’s rights are secondary to the mother’s.

Rape and Incest

“...there is no significant difference between a child in the womb and a newborn out of the womb.”

I must disagree with this statement. A child outside of the womb is clothed to keep it warm, diapered to make waste disposal easier (perhaps by the father or other family members), and fed formula or breast milk (although breast milk is not required). My point is all of these things are taken care of by the mother’s own body while the child is in the womb. The mother receives no biological compensation for her trouble. Once the child is born the mother utilizes 100% of her own biological resources.

“… if you say that the fetus is not as valuable due to its lack of development, you say that the 6 year-old girl is less valuable than the 14 year-old girl due to her lack of development.

I would not say a 6 year old is less valuable than a 14 year old. There is no value to be assigned, it is simply a matter of independence from the uterus. They have both reached an age of viability, and under favorable conditions they are both able to develop and grow normally with minimal help. A fetus within the first 22 weeks can only survive within a womb. “Doctors now believe a fetus can become viable during the 23rdweek…Most hospitals will only perform abortions through the 22andweek of pregnancy. …But no baby has ever been successfully delivered before the middle of the 22andweek.” [2]

“There is no good justification to end a human life- one that was conceived in rape or not- even if that means the mother will have to go through therapy or something else to help relinquish the memory of the rape.”

I stated earlier,” If the baby cannot survive without the mother, it must be viewed as an extension of the mother’s body. While the fetus is completely dependent on the uterus and is incapable of living outside of the womb, the mother’s rights reign supreme. Also, suggesting the mother will have to go to therapy is rather callous, and not reasonable. In the case of rape, continuing to carry a rapist offspring will force the mother to remain a victim. Her closure cannot come until the end of the pregnancy by your reasoning. The mother should not be forced to sacrifice her rights to protect those of another.

“In a nutshell, keeping a human being alive is more important than a human being's feelings or emotions, no matter how difficult the emotions may be. And suppose the mother realizes what happens when she has an abortion? What will happen to her conscience when she realizes that the baby inside of her has been torn to shreds inside of her? How will she handle knowing she may have just ended the life of a boy or girl she could have watched grown up and play baseball or soccer? How much worse would it be for the mother to deal with a murder and a rape?”

It is much more than protecting a mother’s feelings, it is protecting her rights to control her own body. The description,” torn to shreds inside of her” is a not a valid observation because it is a subjective visualization meant to demonize abortion and appeal to emotion. Also, Pro was not very concerned with the mother’s emotion when rape or incest was involved, but he IS concerned with her feelings after an abortion. The arguments cancel each other out and are appeals to emotion as well.

I look forward to Pro’s response! See you in the third round!

[1] http://www.baby2see.com...

[2] http://www.slate.com...

Debate Round No. 2
wolf24

Pro

wolf24 forfeited this round.
Skepticalone

Con

Pro has forfeited his 3rd round. I have nothing further to add. Thank you for the debate, Pro. Vote Con, and Happy New Year!!!
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by ZebramZee 2 years ago
ZebramZee
I lean more towards Pro's side, supposing that morality is not a fiction of course. One thing I would like you guys to discuss if you are interested is whether there is a difference between a premature baby and a fetus at the same gestational age. Supposing there is no difference, and it would be murder or extreme negligence to take a premature baby off of a ventilator, would it also be murder or negligence to take a fetus off of it's 'ventilator' at the same gestational age?
Posted by rugbypro5 2 years ago
rugbypro5
Yea con, I don't quite understand either... Some clarification would be nice.
Posted by ZebramZee 2 years ago
ZebramZee
Con, could you clarify your position? Do you want to extend Pro's exception to abortion to cases of rape and incest or further, such as only during the first and second trimesters or even into the third trimester? From your opening I couldn't understand what your overall position was. Thanks.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dtaylor971 2 years ago
dtaylor971
wolf24SkepticaloneTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Biggest DDO sin: Forfeiting at the end of a good debate. However, con really put the "good" in this debate. I do feel strongly for abortion, and he had me going with him the whole time. His arguments could've been a bit more organized, such as in the rebuttals section. However, I will not deduct points on S&G for that, as pro did worse on the organization section. The arguments go to con because of forfeit, but I have a feeling he would've beat pro in this section even without a forfeit. As for sources, it was very minimal. Con did, in fact, use two, but I am skeptical (no pun intended) to add points for that. This was not a bad debate, but pro could've done better refuting and con could've done better with organization. However, this debate beats any other ones in the voting section... So keep it up! :D