The Instigator
Ribler
Con (against)
Losing
14 Points
The Contender
studentathletechristian8
Pro (for)
Winning
16 Points

Abortion=murder!!!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/8/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,507 times Debate No: 8169
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (6)

 

Ribler

Con

Okay so here's a topic, abortion is murder, please feel free to debate. (after all that's why were here)

Abortion is murder. over 1.37 million abortions take place every year. (over 3,700 a day)93% of abortions in America are for social or economic reasons. 46 billion abortions have been preformed since 197318 days after conception the baby's heart starts beating. 1% of women who get abortions were involved in rape.
studentathletechristian8

Pro

Although my opponent has officially taken the CON side of the resolution, she has posted an argument that supports the PRO side, which is obviously my side.

I am going to assume that my opponent has made a mistake and accidentally chose the wrong side. Because her argument clearly supports the Pro position, I will present an argument to counteract it, thus I shall actually present the CON while she presents the PRO case.

First, let us look at some definitions.

abortion-the removal of an embryo or fetus from the uterus in order to end a pregnancy. http://dictionary.reference.com...

murder-the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law
http://dictionary.reference.com...

human being-a SELF-AWARE, self-conscious, or rational being

My argument is that abortion is NOT murder, because a fetus is not a person. A person is an organism that is self-aware, meaning it has a developed brain of sorts, and can be aware of it's environment and of itself. Because a fetus does not fulfill these requirements, it is NOT a person. Because it's not a person, it's not murder, which is defined as "the unlawful killing of one human by another".

All of the facts you presented about abortion do not explain why abortion is murder, they only serve as statictual information about abortion. You did not even provide a source, so your facts are discredited.

Conclusively, abortion is not murder because a fetus is not a person. A person is self-aware and self-conscious, and a fetus does not fulfill this requirement, therefore it is not a person. Murder is killing of a person, so abortion is henceforth not murder, because the fetus is not a person.
Debate Round No. 1
Ribler

Con

I was simply posting those statistics to start the debate everything I said was on the Internet.
And a fetus is a person. After 18 days its heart starts beating. Most women don't even know their pregnant then. And you say their not a human because their not fully developed, well is a toddler a human? its not fully developed. what about an 18 year old? can you kill them? no. but their body isn't fully developed. and also I guess its okay to kill anyone under 40 because that's when your brain gets fully developed.
Is that what your saying? because it's not a "person" you can kill it, because its not completely developed, because it's not aware of itself?
You said that the baby is just a fetus, not human, if the heart starts beating after just 18 days it is alive. Not a living fetus, A living human being. Also, if when the baby is born it cant talk or think for itself and you kill it, its murder. but if its inside the mothers womb its not considered as killing?

http://www.priestsforlife.org...
These are pictures of aborted babies. WHO WERE KILLED.

By 11 weeks old he or she breathes, swallows, digests, sleeps, dreams, wakes, tastes, hears, and feels PAIN. Babies born prematurely can survive outside of the womb as young as 20-25 weeks. (Many abortions are done after this point.)
Humans reproduce humans. It would not be possible for human parents to produce offspring that is not human, but later becomes human.

Basically when you say that abortion is okay your choosing what and what is not murder based on feelings and circumstances of how the pregnancy occurs.
studentathletechristian8

Pro

Honestly, your entire argument makes me laugh. You may think you are "enlightened" and know what you are talking about, but you appear ignorant and foolish. I will now once again prove that abortion is not murder, thus if I prove this point, I shall win the vote.

Murder is the taking of the life of another human being through the initiation of physical force. Abortion is not murder, because a fetus is not a human being -- it is a potential human being, i.e. it is part of the woman. The concept murder only applies to the initiation of physical force used to destroy an actual human being, i.e., such as when "pro-life" terrorists bomb abortion clinics.

There is no scientific reason to characterize a raisin-size lump of cells as a human being. Biologically speaking, such an embryo is far more primitive than a fish or a bird. Anatomically, its brain has yet to develop, so in terms of its capacity for consciousness, it doesn't bear the remotest similarity to a human being. This growth of cells has the potential to become a human being--if preserved, fed, nurtured, and brought to term by the woman that it depends on--but it is not actually a human being. Analogously, seeds can become mature plants--but that hardly makes a pile of acorns equal to a forest. You can't call an egg a chicken before it's even got the chicken form yet.

Now I shall answer your main contentions:

"And a fetus is a person. After 18 days its heart starts beating. Most women don't even know their pregnant then. And you say their not a human because their not fully developed, well is a toddler a human? its not fully developed. what about an 18 year old? can you kill them? no. but their body isn't fully developed. and also I guess its okay to kill anyone under 40 because that's when your brain gets fully developed.
Is that what your saying? because it's not a "person" you can kill it, because its not completely developed, because it's not aware of itself?
You said that the baby is just a fetus, not human, if the heart starts beating after just 18 days it is alive. Not a living fetus, A living human being. Also, if when the baby is born it cant talk or think for itself and you kill it, its murder. but if its inside the mothers womb its not considered as killing?"

first, I shall define a person:

person-a human being, whether man, woman, or child; a self-conscious or rational being
http://dictionary.reference.com...

You say a fetus is a person. Clearly by definition, it is not. A fetus is not a man, woman, or child. It is also not a self-conscious or rational being. Because murder is the killing of another person, abortion is not murder, for it does not involve killing a person.

You then proceed to say that just because a fetus is not fully developed, it does not mean that it is not human because 18 year olds and even 40 year olds are not fully developed. You are once again mistaken. Like I just proved, your development clause is irrelevant. A fetus is not a person or human being because it does not fill the requirements, so it is not murder.

"By 11 weeks old he or she breathes, swallows, digests, sleeps, dreams, wakes, tastes, hears, and feels PAIN. Babies born prematurely can survive outside of the womb as young as 20-25 weeks."

This argument once again does not stand. Ants can breathe, swallow, digest, sleep, dream, wake, taste, hear, and feel pain. But if you "kill" an ant, it is not considered murder. This applies to abortion. Just because a fetus possesses qualities of life does not mean it is a human being. Dogs possess qualities of life, but it is not considered murder when you kill them, for they are not humans. Plants possess qualities of life, but are not humans or people. A fetus may have qualities of life, but that does not make it a human person.

I have proven my point and counteracted my opponent's contentions. I await your rebuttals.
Debate Round No. 2
Ribler

Con

Okay you just repeated everything I said.
Also about the ants, they are a classified species just like humans are. So no killing an ant is not murder, but is killing a dog murder? It's KILLING but its not considered murder because it is in a completely different classification than humans.
And your whole little "this makes me laugh". Necessary? not really. (a good debater never attacks his opponent)

1. Law of bio genesis. http://www.biology-online.org...
(HUMANS REPRODDCE HUMANS)
How would it be possible for human parents to produce offspring that is not human, But later becomes human??
It does not work like that. Living things reproduce after there own kind.

==What is the difference between a fetus (human) and a toddler? -there are four things.==

1. Size--Large people are not more human than small people.

2. Level of Development-- A four- year -old is not less human than a fourteen year old.

3. Environment--A child in an incubator in an intensive care unit is not more human than a child inside a womb.

4. Dependency--If viability is what made us human, then people on insulin are not human, and it would be okay to kill them.

http://www.babycenter.com...

Development of a Baby in the Womb.
-Just 18 days after conception the baby's heart begins to beat.
-At 8 weeks the vital organs are functioning , and the finger prints are formed.
-At 9 weeks the unborn baby is able to feel pain(700,000 abortions each year are performed after this point in the pregnancy)
-By the time the baby is 11 weeks old, he or she breaths (fluid), swallows, digests, sleeps, wakes, tastes, hears, and FEELS PAIN.
-Babies born prematurely can survive outside of the womb as young as 20-25 weeks old. (which abortions are still done at this point.)

And the late term abortions. when do you consider a fetus to become "human"? because if its a late term abortion they call it a baby, not a "fetus."
And another point I'd like to make is the women's rights. Women have the same rights as men do now, but when people say that the woman should get to 'choose' whether the baby lives or dies, that is wrong. what about the baby's rights? regardless of it being male or female it has rights. It has the right to live just as you and I do. But there's no one out there asking, what about the child rights, why aren't we fighting for them?? But you know we want the woman to have there rights, So they say "its not a human". Call it what you want its murder.
studentathletechristian8

Pro

studentathletechristian8 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Ribler 7 years ago
Ribler
thank you!! =D
Posted by ournamestoolong 7 years ago
ournamestoolong
"Abortion is murder.

But in some cases it is the best way for the child and the parent.

But that still does not make it right. one word- adoption."

6 million abortions. Two million adoptions. You do the math.
Posted by Icarus57 7 years ago
Icarus57
Repeating everything does not advance your position in a debate at ALL.
Posted by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
studentathletechristian8
i repeated everything to make a point and prove my argument!
Posted by Ribler 7 years ago
Ribler
Ummm ....no I'm pretty sure, you were mistaken and didn't quite understand what she said because you kept repeating everything.
Posted by KirstinKate 7 years ago
KirstinKate
Abortion is murder.

But in some cases it is the best way for the child and the parent.

But that still does not make it right. one word- adoption.
Posted by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
studentathletechristian8
you are obviously mistake because I counerated her arguments!!!
Posted by kibbles 7 years ago
kibbles
Ok, this guy just pretty much repeted everything ribbler just said. i think he needs some help!
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by tmhustler 7 years ago
tmhustler
Riblerstudentathletechristian8Tied
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Vote Placed by untitled_entity 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by wpfairbanks 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by Alex 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
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