The Instigator
ChandanB
Pro (for)
Winning
17 Points
The Contender
Tarik
Con (against)
Losing
10 Points

Abortion should be allowed.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
ChandanB
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/19/2014 Category: Science
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,042 times Debate No: 65517
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (6)

 

ChandanB

Pro

I challenge my opponent to discuss about the validity of abortion. I strongly feel women should have the right to abort the fetus. Why? I tell that in my later arguments.
Round 1- Acceptance
Round 2- Arguments
Round 3 - Rebuttal
Round 4 - Conclusion
Tarik

Con

I accept the challenge.
Debate Round No. 1
ChandanB

Pro

Let me first put up what is abortion- Abortion is the ending of pregnancy by the removal or forcing out from the womb of a fetus or embryo before it is able to survive on its own.
#ARGUMENTS
Argument 1- Saves the life of the woman if her life is in danger - There are many cases where due to medical complexities, the fetus becomes reason of danger for the woman. In such cases, it should be made legal for the woman to abort the fetus no matter how weeks old the fetus be. The life of the child saved will likely be destroyed without a mother,but the mother? She can give birth to another child and carry on a good life.
http://en.wikipedia.org... This is what denying abortion can do. Nothing but ignorance and apathy
Argument 2- Ability to abort a basic civil and women right-(i) The fetus undergoing cell differentiation and cell maturation obtains all its raw materials from the to be mother (except for the sperm cell) Therefore it is logical to accept to take decisions on the fetus solely by the mother. If she is the only one nurturing it,then on she must have the rights to terminate it,nobody else.
(ii) During any kind of rape- In such cases it is obvious that the woman would want to terminate the pregnancy. Such cases very much demand the need for abortion,without which both the life of the child and the mother will be spoiled.
(iii) In cases of teen pregnancy. The reason behind it is simple- (a) The teen mother is neither physically nor mentally matured enough to nurture a fetus or a child in the future for that matter.
(b) Since the teen mother herself is a child,her priorities are much different than a matured woman. Her age is to gain education and learn about the world and not nurture babies. Also since they a children themselves,they dont posses enough knowledge on parenting,thus spoiling the life of the mother and the child.
I will put forward more arguments in the next round.
Tarik

Con

Argument 1- Ability to abort is not a doctor's right unless the mother's life is in danger-(i) The doctor isn't the one nurturing the fetus, then on he/she must have no rights to terminate it.
(ii) During any kind of rape a doctor still has no right to abort a fetus unless the mother's life is in danger- In such cases the woman might want a doctor to terminate the pregnancy. Such cases very much demand no need for abortion unless the mother's life is in danger, with abortion being legal the life of the human fetus is over and the mother will remain saddened by her rape.
(iii) In cases of teen pregnancy a doctor still has no right to abort a fetus unless the mother's life is in danger. The reason behind it is simple- If the teen mother isn't mentally matured enough to nurture a child in the future, a safe haven or adoption agency is an option.
Debate Round No. 2
ChandanB

Pro

REBUTTAL ROUND
Claim 1 - The doctor isn't the one nurturing the fetus, then on he/she must have no rights to terminate it.
Fact- In any kind of of medical cases,no doctor has right to take descision on behalf of patient. It is the patient only who takes their own descisions.
Claim 2 - Such cases very much demand no need for abortion unless the mother's life is in danger, with abortion being legal the life of the human fetus is over and the mother will remain saddened by her rape.
Assumption- There isnt any kind of medical treatment available that deals with recovery from the menatal sacr on the women.
Fact/Rebuttal- There exists therapies where the rape survivors are made to undergo therapy which ultimately leads to reinstatement of her self confidence and belief. http://www.healthyplace.com...
Claim 3 - If the teen mother isn't mentally matured enough to nurture a child in the future, a safe haven or adoption agency is an option.
Assumption - Care taken by adoption agency.orphanage is equal to care taken by parents. A child put up for adoption will be adopted in no time.
Fact/Rebuttal - My opponent here thinks if the child is unwanted by the mother,then it can be sent to an orphanage from where they would be adopted by someone else. What he doesnt mention is the fact there are already many children who have filled up the orphanages and there arent enough parents who want to take up children. Also a child cannot be well nurtured as well in orphanage as she/he would by parents. http://ceped.org...;(Read pages 4,5,6)

Tarik

Con

Claim 1- It is the patient only who takes their own decisions.
Fact- Although this is true in some cases, in the case of clinical abortion the ultimate decision is made by the doctor and the doctor only because if the doctor refuses to perform an abortion the woman still remains pregnant but if the doctor does decide to perform an abortion the woman is no longer pregnant because the doctor makes the decisions in cases of clinical abortions.

Claim 2- There exists therapies where the rape survivors are made to undergo therapy which ultimately leads to reinstatement of her self confidence and belief.
Assumption- Rape survivors that undergo therapy leads to reinstatement of self confidence and belief.
Fact/Rebuttal- Although this may be true in most cases not all rape victims that undergo therapy leads to reinstatement of self confidence and belief because therapy is not effective for all individuals.

Claim 3/Assumption- My opponent here thinks that I think "Care taken by adoption agency.orphanage is equal to care taken by parents. A child put up for adoption will be adopted in no time."
Fact/Rebuttal- I in fact do not think this claim/assumption however I do think that care taken by adoption agency/orphanage can be equal, better, or worse than care taken by parents depending on the situation for example if the parents want/doesn't want the child or if the parents can/cannot financially support the child. I didn't mention earlier that "there are already many children who have filled up orphanages and there aren't enough parents who want to take up children" because I didn't need to mention it to prove my point, my point was to mention that adoption agencies/safe havens are available which they are. I also do not think that all children put up for adoption will be adopted in no time, however I do think that some children will be adopted and some will not and some will be adopted quickly and some will not.

Claim 4- a child cannot be well nurtured as well in orphanage as she/he would by parents.
Fact/Rebuttal- My opponent here thinks that this claim is true when in fact this claim is only true or untrue in certain situations, for example I reiterate if the parents want/doesn't want the child or if the parents can/cannot financially support the child.

Claim 5- http://en.wikipedia.org...
Fact/Rebuttal- My opponent uses this link to prove this is what denying abortion can do but although the information on this link may be true it doesn't matter because wikipedia is not a credible source.

Claim 6- "During any kind of rape- In such cases it is obvious that the woman would want to terminate the pregnancy. Such cases very much demand the need for abortion,without which both the life of the child and the mother will be spoiled."
Fact/Rebuttal- This claim is untrue because it isn't obvious that the woman that was raped would want to terminate the pregnancy because pro life women exist that believe that the fetus shouldn't be killed because of who there father is/was. My opponent also claims that a woman needs an abortion if she's raped when in fact the only circumstance she needs an abortion is if her life is in danger. My opponent also believes that a woman denied an abortion will eventually suffer a spoiled life along with her child but although this may be true in most situations this isn't true in all situations because some women have a change of heart after there child is born, and some children grow up to live happy lives after their birth mothers give them up for adoption http://espn.go.com...

Claim 7- "The teen mother is neither physically nor mentally matured enough to nurture a fetus or a child in the future for that matter."
Fact/Rebuttal- My opponent claims that teenage mothers aren't mentally ready to raise a child however although this may be true in some situations this isn't true in all situations because some teen aged mothers gain a sense of responsibility after their child is born and raise them just fine although the process may be more difficult due to their age.

Claim 8- "Also since they a children themselves,they dont posses enough knowledge on parenting,thus spoiling the life of the mother and the child."
Fact/Rebuttal- This isn't true in all circumstances because some mothers teach their daughters motherly like qualities that their daughters pass on to their children and if not there are pregnancy classes available for soon to be mothers.
Debate Round No. 3
ChandanB

Pro

1.The doctor is hired by the patient to work for him/her. A doctor never takes a decision. It is the patient takes the decision and the doctor merely follows it,which in this case is the pregnant woman.
2.My opponent fails to show any report where it states that therapy doesnt work on all indivisuals.Its important to note that all people are different and therapy works in different rates. Also by saying that therapy doesnt work on all patients,what point he is trying to exert is not understood.
3.It seems he has misunderstood my third point. I exerted that care taken in orphanages is NOT equal to care taken by parents.In case nobody opened the link I gave, The research suggests that children growing up in orphanages are not better or equal to children with parents in terms of physical,mental or emotional parameters.
4. Self contradictory fact/rebuttal put up by opponent. If the parent is unable to take care of the child due to financial reasons ,it is definitely better that the child is aborted. If sent to orphanage,the child may receive the monetary help but remains emotionally stunted.
IT MUST BE NOTED AT THIS POINT THAT ANTI ABORTION STANCE CARES ABOUT A ZYGOTE AND A MASS OF PROPERLY UNDIFFERENTIATED CELLS BUT SHOWS NO CARE WHATSOEVER FOR THE CHILD AFTER IT IS BORN AND ACTUALLY GAINS SELF CONSCIOUSNESS AND INTELLIGENCE.
5. http://en.wikipedia.org... Clearly my opponent makes no effort to open the link a this case is a real life life incident that had taken place in Ireland and was all over the news. Still for achieving the point for credible source... http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
6.Judges note that upto this point opponent agrees that the point put up by me is true IN MOST CASES. Exceptions do exist. Is the % of' exception' greater than 50% or a considerable digit? If yes, how much? Reports??
7. Again exceptions do exist. Also there is no guarantee whatsoever that the mother WILL achieve maturity after the child is born.
8.It must be noted that my wants teenage mothers to join in absolutely unnecessary activity such as pregnancy classes at time where her sole objective should be to focus on studies and make career. Also the hardwork needed to take care of a child will definitely hamper and divert the mother's focus on education.

At this point I suddenly remembered that I forgot to put a very important argument in previous rounds. Here it goes-
It must be noted that around 90+ % of abortion takes place in 1st trimester that is within 12 weeks. http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au... Here, the activity of an unborn fetus is explained in layman language. It is clear from the activities that the fetus is nowhere near of having human like characteristics till week 12. Also it doesnt show complete human like activity till before week 20. Therefore under special needs of the mother,abortion should be allowed till week 12-13 if not 20. (Opponent is requested to rebuttal this argument in round 5 and then conclude)
PS- IN ROUND 5,I WILL BE PUTTING UP ALL MY ARGUMENTS IN SHORT POINTS WITHOUT ANY EXPLANATION.
Tarik

Con

1. But the doctor makes the decision to follow the pregnant woman's request and accept the offer. For example
Woman: Doctor can you abort my fetus I'll pay you $300.
Doctor: Sure I'll perform the abortion I just need to make sure your life is in danger first.
Woman: But it's not
Doctor: Well then I'm sorry miss but I can only perform an abortion if your life is in danger.
And that's an example of abortion being the doctors decision and not the woman's.

2. If you believe that parents care for children better than orphanages then the parents should raise their children themselves, and so far I only heard your opinion on adoption but you failed to mention a thing about safe havens or http://espn.go.com...

3. You certainly misunderstood my point because I would never say "if the parent is unable to take care of the child due to financial reasons, it is definitely better that the child is aborted". If the child may receive monetary help but remains monetary stunted due to being sent to an orphanage then the child is better off then being abused and neglected by parents that don't want him/her and the woman is in no position to worry about her child's well being because once she gave her child up for adoption she gave up her rights to her child meaning the child's no longer her problem.
Saying pro lifers show no care whatsoever for the children after they're born is a fallacy because if that were true people wouldn't adopt children, have agencies or safe havens available for children, and if your arguing that the government can do more to help children then maybe that's true and the debate would take a different turn because instead of arguing that fetuses should be aborted you should argue that the government should help children more. Also if a woman wants an abortion she has no reason to criticize pro lifers care for children because they obviously care more than she does based on the fact that they fight for this child's life when she wants the child's life over.

4. I opened the link and I know that the information on the link is true, but I was just pointing out for future reference that you shouldn't rely on Wikipedia for information.

5. I don't think you should underestimate a teen aged mothers abilities, who said she only has to be a mother? She can be a mother go to school and make a living for herself it just takes hard work, I never said it will be easy but it's certainly possible and if the mother feels it isn't than she can give her child up for adoption or leave her child at a safe haven.

You failed to mention
What are human characteristics, and if your answer is self consciousness then that would mean that people on anesthesia don't qualify as human beings also you failed to mention how having consciousness is what makes a human being valuable in the first place.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by ChandanB 2 years ago
ChandanB
Thank You judges for the votes.Will keep in mind the valuable suggestions made. Also,sorry for the very stupid number of rounds miscalculation I made. Will be more careful.
Posted by ChandanB 2 years ago
ChandanB
Sorry for a typing mistake there. The rebuttal that I requested for in the end is to be done round 4 only and not 5.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by whiteflame 2 years ago
whiteflame
ChandanBTarikTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: I could go through all the portions of this debate and point to numerous instances where Con's argument was solely assertion that Pro was wrong without any substance (though admittedly, Pro wasn't much better), mainly arguing that there's some inherent moral barrier between the doctor and the decision in most cases, without explaining why that moral barrier exists and needs to apply in every instance, nor really challenging Pro's argument with more than just assertion that it is very often the woman's decision to abort. However, all of that is secondary to Con's concession in R2, where he says that abortion is basically fine for medical purposes. Since the resolution isn't specific to a reason, and since Con concedes that a viable reason exists, I vote Pro. Sources also go to Pro as he was the only one to provide support for his arguments (limited as it was).
Vote Placed by kimmi 2 years ago
kimmi
ChandanBTarikTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: i vote this because what i believe is wrong and right and abortion is wrong ...
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
ChandanBTarikTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: con sticks to the idea that doctors have control over what women have control over, but offers no real evidence to support this. Pro proves that morally, women have to abort in most circumstances.
Vote Placed by travis18352 2 years ago
travis18352
ChandanBTarikTied
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Reasons for voting decision: not really a clear winner here.
Vote Placed by Dpowell 2 years ago
Dpowell
ChandanBTarikTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro actually used sources while con went by what he believed. Also, in the first round, con said the same thing repetitively.
Vote Placed by o0jeannie0o 2 years ago
o0jeannie0o
ChandanBTarikTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con clings to the idea that doctors make the final decision. They don't. there are many ways a female can abort a fetus without the use of a doctor. They are dangerous and many can be fatal. If a woman cant go to a doctor she might do it herself. No one mentioned how seeing your rapists face on your child may effect your mental state. No one also brought up women who are not capable of carrying a "healthy" baby to term such as drug addicts and women in abusive relationships. The babies cannot be taken away by social services in these cases and are constantly put in harms way, how is that ethical?