The Instigator
lmeo3
Pro (for)
Winning
18 Points
The Contender
patriots16-0
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points

Abortion should be banned nationally unless it is necessary to save the life of the mother.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,812 times Debate No: 1681
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (10)

 

lmeo3

Pro

The legalization of abortion in this country has resulted in the deaths of over 40 million unborn babies. This is due to the fact that many people in our society no longer view unborn babies as humans and see them as either part of the mother or not developed enough to be considered human. Genetically, from conception an embryo is separate from the mother. This can be seen through the difference in DNA code of the two beings. After all, is the penis of an unborn son part of the mother?

Abortion in our society is similar to slavery, and we should put it in our distant past. Before the Civil War, states allowed for the legalization of slavery because blacks looked different than what "normal humans" were known to look like. The institution was upheld by a famous Supreme Court case as well. Furthermore, many people before the Civil War said that they were personally opposed to slavery but didn't believe that they could justifiably apply their morals to others. This argument has been used in the defense of abortion as well. The parallels between slavery and abortion are numerous, and it's time that we learn from history before we repeat the story any further.
patriots16-0

Con

I think it should not be band at all how many moms do you hear any more dying from giving birth or having to REALLY give up there child before he is borne other wise she will die. It just dosent happen anymore Moms all over America can have there babies taken out at 6 months into pregnancy. Tis isnt the 1800 when moms are at risk of dying every time they have a baby we have proffesinal doctors that know a whole lot more about the human bodie and have medicines we can give them that will keep them alive. So i dont think motheres even die in giving child birth anymore it has now become a naturale thing when yor delivering a baby these day a dads not over there in the corner chewing his fingernails wonder if his wife will die or not. Maby on rare ecations do you have to kill the baby to save the mom these days.Are technoligy is just to good.

And this is my point I agree with you that Abortion should be nationally band unless it is necessary to save the life of the mother. But this is my point that that rarely ever happens usually if that does happen it is in 456 months into the pregnancy and by then doctors can take the baby out of there any ways.
Debate Round No. 1
lmeo3

Pro

I added the "except to save the life of the mother" part really more to appease those who would say that it should be an exception, though really the only situation that I can think of would be an ectopic pregnancy. To solve that, it does kill the baby, but technically it isn't an abortion, just the removal of a tube. Mainly, I want to make it clear that there would be no exceptions for rape/incest, because the issue hear isn't taking responsibility for ones actions; rather it is out of respect for the sanctity of human life.
patriots16-0

Con

Im sorry i was not thinking when i signed this to debate you I toatally agree with you on what you are sayin im just glad there are people out there like you because thats exactly what this country needs.
Debate Round No. 2
lmeo3

Pro

Glad to see that we're on the same side. Stay strong!

Since this arguments must be at least one hundred characters long I was forced to write this sentence.
patriots16-0

Con

cool well maby we can debate on another topic sometime that we actually disagree on. Anyways stay strong as well and God Bless
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Lenfent 9 years ago
Lenfent
There is so much bad grammar and spelling on display in this debate that it's almost painful to look at.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
What does abortion have to do with slavery?? That is ridiculous. They are two completely different things.
Posted by Pricetag 9 years ago
Pricetag
I'm in an argument with patriots right now over "Moral Relativism" if you all want to observe. It's... interesting so far.
Posted by ekagarwala 9 years ago
ekagarwala
You still haven't addressed what the difference between me needing your organs vs. the fetus needing a mother's organs is. In one case you don't give up your organs and an innocent dies, but in the other you say the mother has to give up use of her organs to keep the innocent alive.

When you say they were made mothers I can only assume you mean one of two things made them that way: evolution or a god. In the case of evolution, that is breeding. In the case of god, that is your personal religious belief and I hope that you are not trying to insist that we all accept your religious views as the basis for our system of laws. People argued that Africans were made to be slaves. They said the blacks had certain physiological and psychological traits that were certainly indicative of their inherent slave nature. They also argued that Africans were the descendants of Noah's banished son and so deserved to be slaves. Your argument that mothers were made to carry fetuses to term no better or worse than those arguments.
Posted by lmeo3 9 years ago
lmeo3
Women weren't bred to be mothers, they were made as mothers. The only question here is "Is the fetus a separate and living human." If it is, then you can't say that it's ok to kill it, because it is innocent. If a woman doesn't want to take care of it, she should put it up for adoption.

My argument here is that since a fetus has a separate DNA strand than its mother, it is it's own person. Also, since fetus' react to things that are done to them while they are in the womb, it is clear that they are alive. Sure, an animal may be alive too, but we treat humans differently than animals because they have evidence of a higher capacity to live. Human life should be respected more than animal life, and that's just the way it is.

The only way that abortion is ok is if the fetus is not a living human separate from the mother. I've never seen any scientific evidence indicating this.
Posted by ekagarwala 9 years ago
ekagarwala
"As long as you can agree that a fetus is an already living human, then there is no way that you can argue that it should die, since it is completely innocent." By this same logic, I am living person and quite possibly innocent so there is no way you can argue that you shouldn't give me your kidney.
The time that the child may live is also a tough approach to take; can I claim your organs until I reach 2, 3, 10, 21 years of age? Is all that matters the net difference in our ages? If I am younger am I allowed to take non-essential portions of your organs?
The argument that it is my time to die, is an argument against all medical treatment. Why perform any medical procedure if it happens to be that person's time to get sick/die? If the mother removes the fetus from the womb, and it doesn't survive, isn't that just the fetus's time to die?
The design argument is just like the "better-off" argument. Suppose a group of people were bred to be slaves, does that make it right to enslave them?
Posted by lmeo3 9 years ago
lmeo3
Now THAT is an invalid point. The only thing that a fetus needs from a mother to live are things that the mother's body was designed to be able to provide. I am not designed to give you a kidney, though it is still possible. Also, if the question is, donate a kidney or let someone die, then there are many factors. Maybe it is just "time" for the person to die. Would you cut off your hand to give someone two more months? However, a baby is at the threshold of life and has every potential in front of it. As long as you can agree that a fetus is an already living human, then there is no way that you can argue that it should die, since it is completely innocent. (Unless there are circumstances where if it isn't killed the mother will die, which are very rare)
Posted by ekagarwala 9 years ago
ekagarwala
I never brought up the issue of responsibility and I don't see how my argument is dependent on it, so I won't address it. I actually do have some idea of the relative risks of abortion vs. bearing a child. An early abortion administered by medical professionals poses fewer risks than bearing a child. Note that I am in no way trying to argue that is perfectly safe, just that there a fewer risks. And to continue in the vein of my previous comment, the argument that the blacks/women are better off being slaves/bearing children is not a legitimate reason to force them into slavery/motherhood.
To address your second point consider these questions, should I be able to demand that you give me one of your kidneys/part of your liver/your blood/your bone marrow/etc. to save my life? You will have some pain and the possibility of death, but I will live. Should there be any circumstances where you are able to refuse to give me non-essential parts of your organs except when it is particularly likely to cause your death? Shouldn't we err on the side of life?
Posted by lmeo3 9 years ago
lmeo3
Which is worse...depression and lower back pain or death?

Once someone is pregnant, they are a mother already. We wouldn't support killing a two month old because it was too much of a responsibility for the mother. Plus, if she really can't take care of it, she can put it up for adoption.

And you mention that a mother can suffer from depression or injury by having a baby? Do you have any idea how many women develop depression, suffer permanent physical damage, and even commit suicide after having an abortion? (Not to mention that the chances of developing breast cancer increase dramatically after having an abortion, according to certain studies.) There is a risk of injury and depression either way, shouldn't we err on the side of life?
Posted by ekagarwala 9 years ago
ekagarwala
Slavery is a very interesting topic to bring into this discussion, lmeo3; though I would not have chosen to bring it up on your side of the debate. I would argue that under your scheme the mother, possibly through no fault of her own, is now enslaved to the fetus. She must provide it with sustenance and clean away its wastes 24/7. She is at serious risk of sustaining permanent injury. She cannot escape until her life is at immediate risk, which may well be too late or child is born. And even if the child is born, she may undergo post partem depression and develop chronic back and joint pain.
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Vote Placed by lmeo3 9 years ago
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