The Instigator
baker27b
Con (against)
Winning
30 Points
The Contender
presreynolds
Pro (for)
Losing
18 Points

Abortion should be completely legal in the United States.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/1/2008 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,574 times Debate No: 1246
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (16)

 

baker27b

Con

When it comes to this subject, I always feel a little less Libertarian and a little more Republican. Technically I am both, but as of late I sometimes feel that I am an oxymoron.

When it comes to life, I feel that our laws should never exert the capacity to take it away. It just feels wrong that government should have some say over life. What have government officials done to embody the ability to take...and give life? What makes me a little more Libertarian and a little less Republican is my feeling on the Death Penalty. I am against the act. And my opposition to abortion makes me feel consistent.

But I do want to make it clear, my opposition to abortion is more than just being the term "Pro-Life" on all fronts. I think being anti-abortion is a necessary position in a free society that respects ones basic right to life.

There are two arguments I usually hear from the Pro-Choice section of society. The first is that life does not begin at conception. The second is that it is a women's body and government does not belong there. I have thought the two positions over for a long time, but I have never been able to come to terms with them. In fact, I truly believe them both to be wrong.

When it comes to that first part, I always think of the quote, "The acorn is the Oak Tree." What is the difference between us and our potential? Well, when you factor in time and change, that can be a lot. But without our initial self, our potential is nothing. Without the acorn, there is no Oak Tree.

When it comes to conception I feel it must be guarded and kept sacred. Everyone who is alive today, is alive because at one point they were conceived. Without that conception they are nothing. Without conception, we are nothing. Conception is as important to my life as any of my vital organs. It if it is nothing, I am nothing.

For this reason my heart and mind tell me that life truly begins at conception. Preserved, the world will be experienced by another life. And who is to determine who should and who should not experience life? In a truly free society, I believe that no one is that high in status to be able to say yea or nay. With this type of empowerment over life, any of our conceptions could have been nixed. Any of our lives could be taken away. We would be nothing and never have had a say on the matter.

Everything you know and love wouldn't even be knowledge to your being.

The second "Pro-Choice" argument I mentioned is another one I often hear. It is a women's body and government has no right in a women's body. That statement alone always makes me cringe a bit. That statement there never mentions the premise of life.

If we are to be a society that promotes liberty-- which I am pretty sure we are-- then we need to protect life itself. So when it comes to personal space versus life, life should always win. We should never take life out of the picture for convenience. Never. Doing so would be looked down upon in any other situation.

The other part of this argument is the thought that we would be forcing women to then live with the baby. It is in some "Pro-Choice" thought that we have no right to force a women to give birth and live with the existence of that child. Again, I acknowledge there is inconvenience in that situation, but does convenience supersede life? In an ethical, free society the answer is no.

I am "Pro-Life" out of compassion, not out of any religious influence or demographic conformity. I do realize the pressures of having to take care of another life and am in no way down-playing the role of a parent. I just feel that life should be respected to the highest degree. I do realize there is a medical situation where an abortion can save a mother's life-- and this is the situation where it becomes okay to me. I do not argue against that situation. She has a right to life too.

But as for abortion being completely legal, I oppose it. I think that if we are to ever regress and think about our conception (in a mature manner), we shouldn't have to feel lucky that we are alive.
presreynolds

Pro

Dear Conservative,
I dearly disagree with you on this subject! If the United States was to ban abortion entirely, this country would be worse off if abhortion was illegal. Alot more women would be getting alley abortions which would lead to the spread of disease. Anyway, in religous talk! And by the way I am totally against anyone choosing to get an abortion, I just feel that it should be the mothers choice! Anyway, back to religion, God gave Adam and Eve the choice to pick from the tree in the garden in even. He didnt put an electrical barrier around the tree. He gave them the CHOICE, this choice was a sin but thats why Jesus died on the cross, so that we could be forgiven of our sins! Women should not be told what to do with their own bodies especially in the United States, knowing that throughout the bible people had choices!

Sincerely,
Liberal
Debate Round No. 1
baker27b

Con

Dear Liberal,

First, I just want to thank you for taking up my argument. I was slightly nervous because I thought I might be really putting myself out there on such a hot topic. There are many, many emotion surrounding the issue and I hope to anger no one. I hope this is a good debate and not just some screaming match.

In your opening statement, you say, "If the United States was to ban abortion entirely, this country would be worse off if abhortion was illegal." I just want to say that the word completely was in the statement above. If you read my whole argument, I never advocate that the U.S. should make abortion completely illegal. I just oppose it being completely legal and I emphasize this in my second to last paragraph.

Then your logic behind that opening statement is, "Alot more women would be getting alley abortions which would lead to the spread of disease." This is a claim, but you use it as logic. For a claim to be justified it needs data and warrant to be somewhere near it. You just throw that statement out there-- in any debate, that is not good. You can't just make claims and then say you are right. I challenge the actuality of that "logic."

After that, you then go on some religious, Christian logic for being Pro-Choice. You go from Adam and Eve to Jesus' sacrifice to Pro-Choice. I think you are saying that Jesus died for our sins and our sins our between us and God and not the government. The notion that because abortion is viewed as a sin by Christians the government has no say in the matter is wrong. Our government is a the result of a social contract and that social contract is their for the protection of our life and liberties. When it comes to abortion, in those regards it does have a say. Our government addresses the sins of stealing and murder...it can address others. That is botched logic you present.

Otherwise, I believe that we shouldn't put any "electrical barrier[s]" around life and those who happen to jump over get to live. I await your rebuttal.

Sincerely,
Paleoconservative/Libertarian
presreynolds

Pro

Dear Paleoconservative/Libertarian,
That first sentence was a typo, excuse me! As you might have picked up, I am a big christian and a pro-choice liberal! I actually got asked by my girlfriend's mother "how can a christian be a democrat?" INSANE! However, that is beside the point.

All I am saying is that you have to look at abortion from all angles! Well, I hope to talk to you soon or debate you soon! I am sorry I could not debate you the proper way! I wish you would debate this issue with someone else! Howerver, I have work in the morning and have to hit the sack! I am truly Sorry!

Sincerely,
Liberal
Debate Round No. 2
baker27b

Con

Dear Liberal,

Yea...there are those Christians that will be like that. You can be Christian and a Democrat. You can be Christian and Pro-Life. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant on the subjects (including Christianity) and wrong. I am a Christian too. I believe that I am a fairly strong Christian too, but there is the Religious Wrong who call themselves the Religious Right. They make me smack myself against the wall because I fear that I might somehow be grouped with them by another person when I am no where near them.

But I do want iterate that I never argued my point from a religious stance. I did it from a completely secular one. I argued abortion within the boundaries of our U.S. Constitution and our governing bodies. I did mention the social contract being there to protect our life and liberties.

And I never mentioned any Bible verse on how God knew you in the womb or whatnot. My logic for life beginning at conception was Aristotelian and how conception is a fundamental part of life. Without conception, there is no life.

You say, "All I am saying is that you have to look at abortion from all angles!" I believe I do within a legitimate sense. I look at it within the realm our what is consistent with our social contract and governing bodies.

ALSO I do consider the point-of-view of the mother. I did this in the later points of my opening argument. I know that there is a great burden to having a child, but convenience should never outweigh life. I do and did look at abortion from all angles.

I appreciate you accepting this argument and await your rebuttal!

Sincerely,
Paleoconservative/Libertarian
presreynolds

Pro

presreynolds forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Mikedapimp 9 years ago
Mikedapimp
kierk I love ur picture XD pugs ftw
Posted by Kierkegaard 9 years ago
Kierkegaard
Pro's dumb. He could have attacked in SO many ways, and...he was just dumb.

baker27b, I'd love to debate you on the subject sometime if you'd be willing to do so.
Posted by Advidoct 9 years ago
Advidoct
How did "Pro" get any votes???...he hardly debated the topic.

People need to stop voting on their opinions.
Posted by SirJDKnightCroix 9 years ago
SirJDKnightCroix
Baker27b, debate me sometime soon...
Posted by FiredUpRepublican 9 years ago
FiredUpRepublican
I would just like to note that it was The Garden Of Eden, not Even!
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