The Instigator
Challeger30
Pro (for)
The Contender
fire_wings
Con (against)

Abortion should be considered murder

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Debate Round Forfeited
fire_wings has forfeited round #2.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/2/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 338 times Debate No: 94367
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

Challeger30

Pro

First round is for acceptance.
Second round is where we make our best argument for the positions we take.
fire_wings

Con

I accept. Good luck.
Debate Round No. 1
Challeger30

Pro

"Currently, at least 38 states have fetal homicide laws. The states include: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia;and>Wisconsin>. At least 23 states have fetal homicide laws that apply to the earliest stages of pregnancy ("any state of gestation," "conception," "fertilization" or "post-fertilization")"
Taken from the link below
http://www.ncsl.org...

This is important because it proves that in the eyes of the law a fetus can be murdered, something many pro choice individuals oppose adamantly. These laws acknowledge the fetus as having a right to life by calling their deaths a murder.

The problem with these laws is that they create a double standard, claiming that killing a fetus is only considered murder when the death was not wanted by the mother or if the mother was killed as well. The right to choose whether or not to have the baby is taken out of the mothers hands when she and/or the baby are murdered.
This is a direct contradiction to the claim that "abortion is not murder" because the majority of states have created laws for fetal homicide. A fetus can be murdered plain and simple.
Now suppose that a federal law were passed declaring all abortion murder and therefore illegal, this would create many even more difficult situations that would need to be resolved.
For example; If doctors determines beyond a reasonable doubt that a child will be born with a horrific disease that will severely hinder their quality of life or even shorten the childs life exponentially, does that constitute as a murder?
Unfortunately I cannot answer that question. That kind of situation is more along the lines of euthanasia because like many of the elderly that have a terminal disease their life no longer has any intrinsic value to them. Euthanasia is growing support as a right of individuals to make the decisions for themselves regarding what happens with their life.
I would argue that in the event of a fetus being determined to suffer from an excruciating disease the choice of abortion would be given to the mother because the choice would be backed by medical reasoning.
Very strict requirements would have to be met before the choice would be granted.

This example is far different from that of a mother choosing to have an abortion simply because she doesn't want a child or because the child would be a burden. All too often women can have abortion as a method of birth control and there are no laws that prohibit this kind of reckless behavior. There are far too many methods of avoiding unwanted pregnancies to ever rely on an abortion without medical reasoning.
If people do not wish to have a child they need to take the necessary precautions.

Women that are raped pose a unique situation as well. Rape is a problem all to common in this country and there is usually very little a woman can do to get justice. I would argue that if a woman were truly raped and became pregnant she would have to file a police report and cooperate with an investigation to see to it that her rapist be brought to justice.
If the investigation determines that the woman provided false statements to achieve an abortion she should be charged with murder of the fetus.
Many people are going to argue that it would not be fair to force a woman to go through the legal process in this situation but unfortunately people do lie. There are women that would lie about being raped just to get an abortion were it allowed.
I would argue that it is not unreasonable given the fact that a child could lose its life over a lie.

Admittedly this is not the perfect solution for everyone but it is a step in the right direction. The oppression women, gays, and blacks in America once faced is an example of how something once perfectly legal is now looked at as shameful and inhumane.

One day, America will look back at the legal practice of murdering an unborn child as we do the slaughter of the Jews in Germany.
For anyone that is opposed or unsure of the issue I encourage you to watch some of the videos below. Watch them and ask yourself if you still dont think abortion is murder.

WARNING: THE LINK DIRECTLY BELOW IS A PAGE FULL OF REAL ABORTION VIDEOS. VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED, YOU WILL SEE REAL DEATH IF YOU WATCH THESE VIDEOS.
https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...
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Debate Round No. 2
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Letsdebate24 1 year ago
Letsdebate24
Con should concede defeat. Several statements made by con are contradictory in nature and the logic is flawed.
Posted by fire_wings 1 year ago
fire_wings
I wrote my arguments wrong. See here.

'm dissapointed. First of all, in plagscan, it says that around half of my opponent's text is plagairized. Also he made it as very short, shorter than a day. I wasn't expecting that. So I will make my arguments in the comments.

Contention 1: The Fetus is alive

There are many reasons to support that the fetus is living. These are the seven categories to prove something is living. If it matches at least one, then the thing is living.
Movement - The Fetus can move, so this is met.

Respiration (Breathe) - " The fetus does not actually breathe in the womb. The mother breathes for the fetus, and essential oxygen is passed to the fetus through the umbilical cord. The fetus does make breathing-like movements though. These begin at 9 weeks of pregnancy and allow the fetus to practice this breathing movement [4]."

Even though the Fetus doesn't actually breathe, the mother does breathe for the fetus, and they are connected from the Umbilical cord. Therefore, they are techinally breathing their mother's oxygen, and they can breathe.

Sensitivity - The fetus can feel pain at 20 weeks [5]. This is still time in the fetus, so techinally, this part is met.

Growth - The fetus can grow.

Reproduce- The fetus cannot reproduce

Excretion (Sweat, burn waste) - The fetus can do this.

Nutrition- The fetus cannot actually take in nutrition, but then they can take their mother's nutrition and energy from the cord. Therefore, the point is met.

They have to meet all categories, but they don't so vote for Con.

As I have shown that the fetus is not alive, that means that it is not murder.
Posted by fire_wings 1 year ago
fire_wings
As I have shown that the fetus is not alive, therefore not murder vote me.
Posted by fire_wings 1 year ago
fire_wings
Contention 2: The Right of Life

As I said in my framework, all living things have the right of life. As I showed in my first argument, the fetus is alive, therefore it has the right of life. As I showed in my definition, abortion is to cause the death of a fetus, and it is on purpose.

Now, onto my argument. As I said, "The right to life is a moral principle based on the belief that a human being has the right to live and, in particular, should not be killed by another human being. [2]" This means that a human being has the right to live, and in particular not be killed by another human being. Abortion is the fetus dying by the mom, or anyone. Therefore, this is violating the laws of the right of life.

Pope Pius XII says,

"Every human being, even the child in the womb, has the right to life directly from God and not from his parents, not from any society or human authority. Therefore, there is no man, no society, no human authority, no science, no "indication" at all whether it be medical, eugenic, social, economic, or moral that may offer or give a valid judicial title for a direct deliberate disposal of an innocent human life" "--- Pope Pius XII,Address to Midwives on the Nature of Their ProfessionPapal Encyclical, October 29, 1951. [6]

Because abortion violates the laws of the Right of Life, it is illegal, therefore, Vote for Con.

/End of the debate
Posted by fire_wings 1 year ago
fire_wings
I'm dissapointed. First of all, in plagscan, it says that around half of my opponent's text is plagairized. Also he made it as very short, shorter than a day. I wasn't expecting that. So I will make my arguments in the comments.

Contention 1: The Fetus is alive

There are many reasons to support that the fetus is living. These are the seven categories to prove something is living. If it matches at least one, then the thing is living.
Movement - The Fetus can move, so this is met.

Respiration (Breathe) - " The fetus does not actually breathe in the womb. The mother breathes for the fetus, and essential oxygen is passed to the fetus through the umbilical cord. The fetus does make breathing-like movements though. These begin at 9 weeks of pregnancy and allow the fetus to practice this breathing movement [4]."

Even though the Fetus doesn't actually breathe, the mother does breathe for the fetus, and they are connected from the Umbilical cord. Therefore, they are techinally breathing their mother's oxygen, and they can breathe.

Sensitivity - The fetus can feel pain at 20 weeks [5]. This is still time in the fetus, so techinally, this part is met.

Growth - The fetus can grow.

Reproduce- The fetus cannot reproduce

Excretion (Sweat, burn waste) - The fetus can do this.

Nutrition- The fetus cannot actually take in nutrition, but then they can take their mother's nutrition and energy from the cord. Therefore, the point is met.

People might say, "Well it has to meet all categories." Not true. Lets see, can a non-living thing do anything of this, like move, feel pain, breathe, grow, etc.? No! Non-living things can't match all of the things. This means that if one is met, then it is living. As I showed 4 really possible, 2 not quite, and 1 cannot, therefore the fetus is a living organism.
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