The Instigator
NOK_Domination
Pro (for)
Winning
50 Points
The Contender
The_brick
Con (against)
Losing
22 Points

Abortion should be illegal.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/20/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,248 times Debate No: 3305
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (20)

 

NOK_Domination

Pro

Abortion is killing innocent life. Abortion is no more than killing and should be illegal. Thank you.
The_brick

Con

What we must look at is the Row v.s. Wade. Will legalized abortion we are having drops in crime let me explain.

According to Freakonomics:
As far as crime is concerned, it turns out that not all children are born equal. Not even close. Decades of studies show that a child born into a an adverse families are more likely to become criminals the other children. And the millions of women most likely to have an abortion in the wake of the Roe v. Wade- Poor, un-married , and teenage mothers for whom illegal abortion had been to expensive or too hard to get- were often models of adversity. They were the very women whose children, if born, would have been much more likely than average to become criminals. But because Roe v. Wade, these children weren't being born. This powerful cause would have a drastic effect : years later, just as these unborn children would have entered their criminal primes, the rate of crime began to plummet.

So by legalizing abortion is good, it is in fact dropping the average crime rate.I believe that the numbers are in 1999 2,645 murders and in 2003 it was down to around 594. The numbers don't lie. The crime rate is dropping.
Debate Round No. 1
NOK_Domination

Pro

While the data may seem to correlate, the legalization of abortion has very little effect on crime. Has it ever occurred to you that the government and police force are taking control of the crime situation? But since you obviously don't believe the preamble that all men are created equal we might as well kill all people who have ever thought about committing a crime because that is what you are saying when you state that abortion is helpful. This is America land of the free and taking away the choice of the unborn is unconstitutional. Everyone deserves a chance and these children are not given a chance. Even if parents are not ready for a kid is adoption not a viable option? You say that most kids that grow up in "adversity" become criminals, but has everyone that's grown up in "adversity" turned down the wrong path? No they can become doctors, scientists, astronauts, firemen, policemen, activists the possibilities are endless and yes they can also become criminals, but doesn't everyone ever born have the same choice no matter what conditions they grow up in? The answer is clearly yes, but for the numerous unborn that cannot speak for themselves they will never have that chance because they are dead to fill the agenda's of selfish people who don't care for anyone else. Also when you say the crime has decreased do you count the murders committed by doctor's in order to perform an abortion? That in itself is wrong. Keep trying to justify murder, but in the end it is wrong. In your argument you say "I believe that the numbers are in 1999 2,645 murders and in 2003 it was down to around 594" which is laughably incorrect. The following data is from
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov...
The 5.? is the murders per 100,000 and the number on the right is the number of homicides.

1999 5.7 15,522
2000 5.5 15,586
2001 5.6 16,039
2002 5.6 16,229
2003 5.7 16,582
2004 5.5 16,137
2005 5.6 16,692

Source: FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, 1950-2005

As you can see the only year the numbers went down was from 2003 to 2004. These stats completely kill the case you attempted. Funny how I said I killed your case when you're the one trying to advocate killing. Abortion is wrong. Please help make it illegal.
Thank you.
The_brick

Con

"Abortion is killing innocent life" Your not really alive if you haven't taken a breath. So abortion is NOT killing innocent lifes

Well let me show you an example why it show be legalized. Say your a woman that live by yourself and in the mid of the you get rape and become preganet with the rapist baby. Then what do you do? Have this babty that was forced upon you. Not you get an abortion. DUH. The test wasn't done for the whole US it was done in New York. Also people should have the right to choice what they want to do with the baby. People can not force you to do what you don't want to. Its morailly work but what if you have a teenage pregance then what?

What need need to look at is that abortion should be pro-chioce not completely making it illegal but to make people have a choice. Also what if you do make it illegal then you are infriging on the rights of people your taking away there personal freedom - the right to think and act without government control.

If you make it illegal your going agaisnt the rights of people that don't want babies. Your going against there personal freedom.

Make it pro-choice not completely illegal.

I URGE YOU TO VOTE CON
Debate Round No. 2
NOK_Domination

Pro

First of all I do not have an ebonics to english translator on hand so please forgive me if I do not completely understand all of your poorly written arguments. Now to begin destroying your case. If crime is happening in New York why wouldn't it be happening elsewhere? You gave no evidence as to your crime statistics. I agree with your argument though that people should have a choice, so if someone is making you mad you should have the choice to kill him, right? That is exactly what abortion is. I am pro-choice because I believe the baby should have a choice. Maybe teenagers should think about the consequences of sex before showing her junk all over town. Like I said in the previous argument abortion is used to fill the agendas of selfish people. Abortion is a selfish, cowardly act of killing to make the teens life easier. It was her decision to have sex and that's what she has to live with. When you say that we are infringing on people rights you are being irrational. Are laws against murder, smoking pot, stealing money, and rape infringing on peoples rights? No they are limitations to ensure freedom for everybody. Abortion doesn't give the baby freedom. Like Johnicle said below Babies are alive whether they are out of the womb or not.

If you do not vote Pro you are encouraging murder. It is sickening that anyone could resort to abortion to make their lives easy.
The_brick

Con

say that it should be legal because people are going to do it anyway - is it not worth saving many more lives (the lives of the mothers) than letting them die getting back-alley abortions?

What do you people think? Remember, this isn't about whether abortion is right or wrong (there are more than enough of those already) - this is about whether it should be legal or not.

6 reasons to vote NEG

Government gets to control a woman's body.

By making abortion illegal, you're introducing a slippery slope that gives government control over a woman's body. You're taking away a personal freedom. Who knows what other controls the government may legislate in the future. Will it have the power to force sterilization? Will it have the power to make motherhood mandatory? Will it next take away the right to use other birth control methods such as The Pill?

"Back alley" abortions would increase if it were made illegal, leading to increased risk of young women dying or becoming sterile.

Regardless of what laws are in place, there will always be young women out there who want to have an abortion. They may not want to face the wrath of their parents, the embarrassment at school, or the lifetime responsibility of motherhood. If we criminalize abortion, many woman will simply look for other ways to get rid of the child. They could starve themselves or seek unlicensed "back alley" abortions. So instead of getting an abortion in a controlled environment where there is one last chance for counseling on options, women may subject themselves to a potentially dangerous situation. These type of methods often lead to sterility or other harm, even death.

It's arguably better for society to have babies aborted than have them be brought up poor and neglected, where not only will the child suffer but society when that child develops a higher attraction to crime, welfare, etc.

This is probably a controversial point but it has to be said. Without legalized abortion, a lot more women will become parents whether or not they want to be and whether or not they're ready to be. Raising a child properly is a full-time labor intensive process. The children who are neglected or abused are usually the ones that grow up to be drug addicts, lifelong government aid recipients, and criminals. Do we want to subject the child to such misery? Do we want to saddle society with the added burden? Some people say, "What if Abe Lincoln's mom had an abortion?". You could also ask, "What if Adolf Hitler's or Saddam Hussein's mom had an abortion?"

One brief mistake can take away a woman's childhood and trap her for life.

We all make mistakes in our life, especially when we are young. The pressure to have sex at an early age is fierce in today's society. Even a girl who lives a good, responsible life can have one slip up. But that one slip-up can take away all her life plans and trap her. She may have planned to go to medical school, train for the Olympics, travel the world, or just have fun while she's still young. All this can be thrown down the drain with one brief mistake. We shouldn't penalize someone for life.

Giving up a child for adoption can be just as emotionally damaging as having an abortion.

Women develop an emotional bond with a child when they carry it through the full term and go through the experience of delivery. Giving up that child for adoption might be the only reasonable option for a young girl too immature or poor to raise a kid. However, the women now has to live with a feeling of abandoning their child for the rest of her life. Why do you think so many adoptive parents seek out their kids when they're grown? There's no doubt that some women suffer psychological damage from having an abortion; however, the damage done from giving a child up for adoption is much worse.

Abortion is not murder because it is performed before a fetus has developed into a human person.

A fetus doesn't become a real human being until it is physically delivered from a mother's womb. If you define a fetus as a human, are you going to go back and say a sperm or egg is a human? Should we ban birth control altogether then since we'd be killing a "human"?

Vote NEG
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by ellyphant 8 years ago
ellyphant
I agree with Con totally, but his reasoning is hard to follow and difficult to support. I know it's difficult to abandon the arguments that you used, but they're very flimsy in a formal debate, as "living" is defined very subjectively, even by dictionaries.

Interesting point, by the way: Pro, you believe in Capital Punishment. I have difficulty understanding how one can be anti-abortion but pro-capital punishment.
Posted by SweetBags 8 years ago
SweetBags
i personally agree with the con side of this issue, for some of the reasons he broght up, however the pro utterly destroyed his case, and he was never able to recover.
Posted by dmill2010 8 years ago
dmill2010
Yeah I agree the Neg blew this round even though I don't agree with the Pro either.

The most important arguement the neg could of made was concerning women's rights to their own body and not allowing abortion is unconstitutional because it's violating their right of controling their own body. There is also some supreme court case out there that was really important regarding women's right to their body, but I can't think of it.
Posted by Ylareina 8 years ago
Ylareina
Another: I don't agree with Pro but--had a better set of arguments here.
Posted by person_16 8 years ago
person_16
Most women who end up getting an abortion end up regretting it and having nightmares of dead babies and whatnot, y'know?

I'm against abortion, no matter how effectively constructed an argument that attempts to justify the killing of an unborn child may be.
Posted by Spiral 8 years ago
Spiral
Whilst I do not agree with Pro, he constructs a far better argument. *votes and leaves*
Posted by Johnicle 8 years ago
Johnicle
so far after round 2 I have not seen an argument as to why abortion should be legal. Con brings up arguments of Pro choice but it simply doesn't make any sense because if you were REALLY Pro-choice, you'd believe in the right of the baby as well. If the baby is born and wants to kill itself then it's their choice. The women should be relieved if there was rape, both financially and mentally but getting an abortion simply makes it WORSE. They simply don't understand what they are doing until after it is done. There is always adoption, and those of you who say that adoption is harder than it seems... well, I can only call you people sick. Giving a baby life to another family can NOT be harder than killing a baby. The most surprising thing to me is how few people even know how it is done. Abortion is sick. I watched an ultrasound of one once. The literally rip the head off because it's the biggest, they pull that out and vacuum the rest up. It makes me sick to the stomach every time I think about it. The baby was still before it happened. But right before its head was cut off it began to shake and bounce all over what used to be the safe home of the mother. All for what?....... nothing. People who call babies "not alive" are still guilty of the same crime. The baby is alive. One doctor used to believe in abortion being okay, until in a three month pregnancy (approximate) was going bad so they tried to save the baby through surgery, they cut the mothers stomach open and the babies hand literally came out and grabbed the doctors finger... ever since, the doctor has never supported or performed another abortion. Same as the one who did the abortion in the ultrasound. People who support abortion seriously need to watch one happen. They need to see how human-like all of these babies are. They need to re-think their stance. It isn't just baby there... abortion... baby not there... It's bloody and back stabbing murder.
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