The Instigator
radiogirlz7
Pro (for)
Winning
38 Points
The Contender
dairygirl4u2c
Con (against)
Losing
15 Points

Abortion should be legal.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/22/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,650 times Debate No: 808
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (15)

 

radiogirlz7

Pro

Many people agree that abortion should be legal under some circumstances (i.e. if the girl is raped). Others argue that abortion should be legal for minors, only if they are able to obtain consent from their parent or legal guardian. But does the government have the right to control what a girl does to her own body? Does the government have jurisdiction over any person's own body and what happens to it? I do not believe it does. By controlling the circumstances under which a woman can have an abortion the government is essentially controlling the rest of her life for her. The descion to get an abortion can effect her education, her chance to be employed, and even her relationship with other people in her life. I do not believe that a government body (especially one that is overwhelmingly masculine) has any right to decide a woman's life for her.
dairygirl4u2c

Con

Ironically I am in another debate arguing abortion is a rational perspective early in the pregnancy dpending on your beliefs.

Here I am going to qualify all you say still.

If you believe it's not a baby early early on, then sure that's a rational view. But, I would still outlaw it.

If you're for killing a baby five seconds before it gets out of the mother but not when it's out, what's the difference? will you admit you're willing to allow killing to suit the mother's not want of a bother?
why can't someone go on and kill anyone who is a bother to them? they can't, because that infringes another's life.

the mother chose to have sex, she has to pay the consequences. she didn't choose to get pregnant, but she assumed the risk. how do you say she doesn't assume the risk? if i caused a car accident, and the other person was suddenly attahed to my body until it could be surgically removed a few months later, any reasonable person would say the person who caused the crash has no right to termineate the other person.
often i say it's reasonable to have differing beliefs, but here I do not believe it'd be reasonable to say otherwise. it's analogous fully to the baby, in my opinion, and not reasonable to say otherwise.

with that said, you have an argument if you don't think it's a person. we'd probably quibble about when it's reasonable to say it is or isn't a person. but, you have a right to say when you think it is or is not just as much as I do. and you'd have a rational argument if it's based on the personness of the baby, up to a point of course. wihtout that argument, you have no basis to say abortion should be legal.
Debate Round No. 1
radiogirlz7

Pro

The fetus is not a person, and I hold the life of the mother higher than that of the fetus. But my argument is not whether or not abortion is morally right or wrong, because I agree that depends on your beliefs. However, I believe it should be legal because of the right of privacy in the constitution. The Supreme court case of Griswold v. Connecticut decided that there is an implied right to privacy in the constitution. The right to privacy is a penumbra. Amendments 1, 3,4, 5, 9, and 14 all imply a right to privacy. The 1st amendment guarantees privacy to have your own beliefs, the 3rd guarantees privacy in your own home, the 4th guarantees the privacy of your own person, the 5th guarantees the right to life and property, the 9th says that rights not given in the constitution are guaranteed to the people. The Supreme Court case Roe v. Wade established that a woman has a right to the privacy of her own body. The Supreme Court case of Planned Parenthood of Central Missouri v. Danforth guaranteed that this right to privacy extended to minors.
dairygirl4u2c

Con

I agree privacy should be implied into the constitution. All the amendments you cite imply it. I would also add, the conservatives like to go on and on about how soverign immunity, that states generally cannot be sued technically, is implied in teh constitution, because of the states rights stuff like the tenth amendment... so if that can be done, surely privacy can be implied too, to be fair.

You cite Court authority, and following stare decisis or precedent, you would be correct that it's technically the law of the land. But, much like brown versus the board of education overturned segretation type laws, these current cases can be overturned as well. you are not resting your argument on a techincal basis that the cases cannot be overturned?

so, i assume you think it's good policy that it be that way. i say it's a policy argument, because there's competing legal theories. one is privacy, the other is protecting human life. surely, you do not have the privacy to kill a person who is born? techincally, they are born, i admit, and not expressly included in the constitution, the unborn. but, are you being a technicalist such that the framers didn't intend to protect a baby five minutes before the baby is born? get real if that's the case.
there's a burden you're putting on people to change the constitution, whatever the court decides. who should the burden be on? are you giong to be a technicalist and say the burden should be on the framers because they didn't clarify babies are included too? it seems natural they'd include the baby at later points at least. it's at least a reasonable person standarnd to read into it given that the baby is clearly a person later on.

now, i suppose given that it's a policy argument, the states could decide like the first one or two semesters since it's arbitrary anyway. we can't avoid arbitrariness afterall, because the standards roe made are themselves arbitrary. this all simply illustrates are laws are man made, and the practical consequences of them bore full face when implmenting and interpreting them. so, policy is a sound way to proceed.

anyway, ultimately, if you disagree, you're drawing an arbitrary line at the birth canal, just as much as i'm being arbitrary saying a point the baby is a person.

if not anything else, the issue should be given to the states. the states have dealt with it up until the 1900s. some had abortion laws, others didn't. the tenth amendment relegates stuff not in the constitution to the states.

i say, don't be a techinalist with the presumption for death.
Debate Round No. 2
radiogirlz7

Pro

It is true that Supreme Court Cases can be overturned, but does that mean that we should ignore their decisions? If so, then why do we have a Supreme Court?

Like I have said before, I am not arguing whether or not abortion is morally right or wrong, I simply believe that the constitution does not give our government the authority to regulate a woman's body due to the right to privacy.
dairygirl4u2c

Con

Then my assumption was wrong, and you simply insist on not changing their decision. By your reasoning, segregation laws and other types of race cases etc would not be overturned.

But I'm pretty sure you'd not be advocating all that. it seems you're ignoring the principle of preserving life, which is explicitly in the Constitution, and at any rate could be implied just as much as but probably even more than the right to privacy. While you say you're not pushing for this because of your morality, I see no other reason than for you to think privacy should outweigh life with a presumption of death based on your own inclinations, (my guess is augmented by your rhetoric of laws and the woman's body stuff).

If I'm wrong and you simply insist on not changing course, you have not explained why other cases can change, or admit you want to remain ever the same no matter what the Court decides.
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by amarie143 2 years ago
amarie143
I don't really have a specific side to abortion.
But this bothers me, if abortion is legal and women have the right to do it and it isn't counted as a crime then why would someone who murders a pregnant women be charged with double homicide? For the people arguing that the fetus isn't alive and not even considered a baby, just think about that. If it weren't a baby already then why would someone who murders a pregnant women be charged with double homicide. Because in the eyes of the court, the fetus is alive.
Posted by radiogirlz7 9 years ago
radiogirlz7
I think it is sad if believing that the life of a human being currently in existence is unimportant is a "adult" view. If that is so, then I would much rather remain a child.
Posted by jarhead717 9 years ago
jarhead717
policy, c'mon, how can you start making assumptions on an individuals lifestyle based on the geographic location. Obviously you have never seen Hollywood.

Killing is Killing! Trust me I know. And for your 14 year old mindset to be so warped as to allow the taking of a life at a fetus state strikes me as very concerning.

both you and radiogirlz are extremely young and have a perception of life that is still innocent. I commend both of you for your abilities to voice your opinion. But you have a lot of growing up to do.
Posted by dairygirl4u2c 9 years ago
dairygirl4u2c
i posted a debate only for you policydebategod. on retrospect, i have a feeling that i will wish i ahd not, because you're only 14 and have much growing up to do.
Posted by policydebategod 9 years ago
policydebategod
radiogirlz has my vote.
p.s. u can vote 4 urself. thats the only way dairy would actually get a vote.
Posted by policydebategod 9 years ago
policydebategod
i wish dairygirl would leave her little bubble out in holywood inside her castle and go out into the reak world. i hope that she can struggle with an unwanted baby one time and see which decision she makes. people make menial mistakes and are allowed to fix them and they should be.
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