The Instigator
christiandebater
Con (against)
Winning
27 Points
The Contender
libertarian
Pro (for)
Losing
24 Points

Abortion should be legal.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/18/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,571 times Debate No: 4088
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (17)

 

christiandebater

Con

Abortion should be illegal for the following reasons:

1)Abortion can be harmful to the woman if it's not conducted properly especially if performed in a third-world country.

2)Controversially, crime rates could actually go up. Prostitution is at an all time high, because a woman could easily get an abortion whenever she wanted to.

3)The fetus IS A PERSON with a future just like you and me! It is morally wrong to murder a baby in horrific ways and deprive them of that future! Plus the woman sometimes regrets getting an abortion afterwards. So pro-choice isn't always good.

4)You may have a choice to abort the baby but he/she does not. Think about it. You are in prison. You are completely innocent. Everyone knows you are completely innocent yet you are still in prison. Without a court case, you are taken to the executioner and killed on the spot. This is in essence what you are doing to the baby!

5) You say the fetus it not human, yet it has human DNA and is therefore human in nature! Just because a mother has this choice a baby is separate from her as a person. I'm sure if you asked the baby they would want a future! Another argument I say is the sexist argument of "Men shouldn't decide what is right for us women. We should!" Men aren't solely deciding the GOVERNMENT is. Last time I checked the government consisted of both men AND women. And yes there are woman who do not agree with abortion!

With that being said let's start the debate! Some conditions I expect are:

You must agree with abortion. (Duh!)
You must stay on topic!
We must treat each other with respect even though we have different viewpoints!

Let's start the debate!
libertarian

Pro

Hello, ChristianDebater. I intend to destroy you in this debate. I'm glad you started it, This is potentially the first formidable debate on abortion I've ever engaged in. Let the destruction begin!

First thing's first: the rebuttals!!!

>>> "Abortion can be harmful to the woman if it's not conducted properly especially if performed in a third-world country."

+++ It is true that abortion has some harmful effects but the chance of these effects are extremely unlikely. The two most common effects are bleeding and psychological, but these two effects are common with every surgery.

+++ Abortion can be used for health benefits. Often, having the baby will kill the mother or the pregnancy can be detremental to the mother's health. Are you willing to let a person die when you know you can save the life in advance? Why would you bring a new life into the world at the known expense of one who has a husband, mother, friends and is probably already a mother. Would you let your mother die in order to have a smaller brother who you don't even know? No. It is immoral for the government or any entity to force a woman to die for the sake of an embryo that does not even have thoughts, feeling and certainly not loved ones.

+++ A teenage mother will ruin her life if she has a baby, It will be very difficult for her to keep her grades up and do well in life. Statistically, teenage mothers are not as successful. This is an overwhelming statistic. It is immoral to force a girl to ruin her life like this.

>>> "Controversially, crime rates could actually go up. Prostitution is at an all time high, because a woman could easily get an abortion whenever she wanted to."

+++ I do not believe that prostitution is at an all time high. Prostitution was the social norm trough the 1920s. Please show some proof.

+++ Prostitution is not a harmful crime. The legalization of prostitution would be more beneficial.

+++ There is no relation between abortions and prostitution. Prostitutes will simply demand the use of condoms or use birth control. Your link is non-existant.

>>> "The fetus IS A PERSON with a future just like you and me! It is morally wrong to murder a baby in horrific ways and deprive them of that future!"

+++ A fetus does not have feelings until 26 weeks. It is impossible for a fetus to think until this time as well. It is not a person. The mother, however, is.

>>> "Plus the woman sometimes regrets getting an abortion afterwards. So pro-choice isn't always good."

+++ This is ridiculous. If you are going to argue that it is a woman's consequence and choice for having sex to have a baby, then you must accept that it is a woman's consequence and choice to decide for herself if she wants to deal with a baby or death from having a baby or if she wants to deal with anxiety.

>>> You may have a choice to abort the baby but he/she does not. Think about it. You are in prison. You are completely innocent. Everyone knows you are completely innocent yet you are still in prison. Without a court case, you are taken to the executioner and killed on the spot. This is in essence what you are doing to the baby!

+++ This is not what is happening to the baby. The baby does not have thoughts or feelings. And think of the poor mother. Are you going to force her to have a baby that could have resulted from rape or could potentially kill her? Is that morality to you?

>>> "You say the fetus it not human, yet it has human DNA and is therefore human in nature! Just because a mother has this choice a baby is separate from her as a person. I'm sure if you asked the baby they would want a future!"

+++ No. If you asked the EMBRYO it would not say, think or feel anything. The mother would probably say, if asked, that she wants a future, however.

>>> Another argument I say is the sexist argument of "Men shouldn't decide what is right for us women. We should!" Men aren't solely deciding the GOVERNMENT is. Last time I checked the government consisted of both men AND women. And yes there are woman who do not agree with abortion!

+++ Well, I'm not using the sexist argument. Although it is legitimate. Women are not child bearing receptacles. They are human beings with rights.

My points:

1. The government does not, and should not have the right to control a woman's body. The founding fathers included 22 ways the givernment should be restricted. They used the word "not" in context of the government 22 times. They do not want the government controlling our bodies.
2. "Back alley" abortions were very common in times when abortion was legal. These abortions included women sticking hangars into their bodies to kill their fetuses. This will continue if abortion is criminalized.
3. A child that is unwanted will be neglected. GOD wants mothers to want their babies. GOD sticks these soon-to-be people in their bodies for nine months and cause much damage and stress. This causes mothers to love their babies so much more. He also makes them half of us. If you do not love your baby, God does not want you to have it.
4. Neglected children will be the inevitable result. They are a lot more likely to become criminals.
5. One brief mistake can take away a woman's childhood and trap her for life.
6. Abortion is not murder because it is performed before a fetus has developed into a human person.
7. Some women are raped. Should they be forced to keep the rapist's baby and take care of it?
8. Women can die from pregnancy and birth. Should these women be killed? Should their child's due date be a countdown for days left to live? What about their friends and families?
9. Abortion bans have been ruled unconstitutional because they are detremental to women's health. We have the right to life. The government cannot force a woman to have herself killed.

Please vote PRO if you support abortion and/or feel I've done the debated best.
Debate Round No. 1
christiandebater

Con

Thank you for starting this debate libertarian. I agree you have some points but I will show you some facts. The rebuttals:

+++ It is true that abortion has some harmful effects but the chance of these effects are extremely unlikely. The two most common effects are bleeding and psychological, but these two effects are common with every surgery.

Wrong!
Women who undergo abortion face a number of possible physical complications including hemorrhaging that requires a transfusion, perforation of the uterus, cardiac arrest, endotoxic shock, major unintended surgery, infection resulting in hospitalization, convulsions, undiagnosed ectopic (tubal) pregnancy, cervical laceration, uterine rupture and death.

And look at this! The risk of breast cancer for women who have experienced an induced abortion is 50 percent higher than among other women. A woman's body naturally produces a rapid cell growth in the breast tissues during pregnancy. This growth shuts down after giving birth. Abortion, however, does not shut down this rapid cell growth, resulting in a significantly higher risk for breast cancer.

+++ Abortion can be used for health benefits. Often, having the baby will kill the mother or the pregnancy can be detrimental to the mother's health.

Isn't this fact a risk for every pregnancy? Are you now saying we shouldn't have children?

Are you willing to let a person die when you know you can save the life in advance?

I find this sentence VERY IRONIC!

Why would you bring a new life into the world at the known expense of one who has a husband, mother, friends and is probably already a mother.

Not EVERYONE who gets an abortion is a mother with families. A LOT of teens get pregnant and get an abortion.

Would you let your mother die in order to have a smaller brother who you don't even know? No. It is immoral for the government or any entity to force a woman to die for the sake of an embryo that does not even have thoughts, feeling and certainly not loved ones.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that she can give it up for adoption. And dying is a risk she'll take with or without an abortion. She will not necessarily die because she gives birth but the child WILL.

+++ A teenage mother will ruin her life if she has a baby, It will be very difficult for her to keep her grades up and do well in life. Statistically, teenage mothers are not as successful. This is an overwhelming statistic. It is immoral to force a girl to ruin her life like this.

Again you ignore the fact that she can give it up for adoption. My cousin had to go through this. She gave up the baby for adoption after she gave birth. The baby is doing fine. She checks up on it all the time. Plus this is why abortion should be illegal in the first place. Teens will think twice before getting pregnant.

+++ I do not believe that prostitution is at an all time high. Prostitution was the social norm trough the 1920s. Please show some proof.

I couldn't find enough evidence to support either of our arguments. I misread a different article. Sorry! However I do not see proof for your argument.

+++ Prostitution is not a harmful crime. The legalization of prostitution would be more beneficial.

What! How do you rationalize this? Prostitution often means cheating on your wife or girlfriend and it spreads diseases!

+++ There is no relation between abortions and prostitution. Prostitutes will simply demand the use of condoms or use birth control. Your link is non-existent.

No, my link is right here. www.rapeis.org/activism/prostitution/prostitutionfacts.html Basically, it's talking about statistics with prostitutes being raped.

+++ A fetus does not have feelings until 26 weeks. It is impossible for a fetus to think until this time as well. It is not a person. The mother, however, is.

This disregards the fact that the nature of the life is human. It has human DNA and is alive. How can its nature not be human if it is alive and has human DNA? This asserts a false premise that someone is not human until he/she is fully developed. What constitutes full development? One hour before birth or one hour after? Is there really a difference? Then when did the natures change? When did the non-human nature develop into a human nature? At what point does it become human and by what criteria do you make this judgment? If you cannot decide when, then you are risking killing a person.

+++ This is ridiculous. If you are going to argue that it is a woman's consequence and choice for having sex to have a baby, then you must accept that it is a woman's consequence and choice to decide for herself if she wants to deal with a baby or death from having a baby or if she wants to deal with anxiety.

Look at this link. http://www.abortionfacts.com...? It talks about suicide rates among teens. There is more about psychological and physical effects on that site.

+++ This is not what is happening to the baby. The baby does not have thoughts or feelings. And think of the poor mother. Are you going to force her to have a baby that could have resulted from rape or could potentially kill her? Is that morality to you?

Rape is horrible. But why should the child pay for the sins (wrong doing) of another? The baby is innocent of the offense and his life need not be taken because of the act of another. If what is in the womb is human, then killing it because of the act of another would be wrong.

+++ No. If you asked the EMBRYO it would not say, think or feel anything. The mother would probably say, if asked, that she wants a future, however.

My argument above would suffice for this one. And yet again you fail to ignore the fact that she can give it up for adoption.

+++ Well, I'm not using the sexist argument. Although it is legitimate. Women are not child bearing receptacles. They are human beings with rights.

Did I say they weren't? "Men aren't solely deciding the GOVERNMENT is. Last time I checked the government consisted of both men AND women. And yes there are woman who do not agree with abortion!" You fail to pose an argument against this.

1.The government does not, and should not have the right to control a woman's body. The founding fathers included 22 ways the government should be restricted. They used the word "not" in context of the government 22 times. They do not want the government controlling our bodies.

Yet isn't the child a "body." The government would be controlling the child's body in this instance.

2."Back alley" abortions were very common in times when abortion was legal. These abortions included women sticking hangars into their bodies to kill their fetuses. This will continue if abortion is criminalized.

These links should argue my point for this one. They give statistics on back alley abortions.
www.priestsforlife.org/lte/lte27.html
www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=2688&pst=64853
www.knightsite.com/kc9496/unborn62.htm

3. A child that is unwanted will be neglected. GOD wants mothers to want their babies. GOD sticks these soon-to-be people in their bodies for nine months and cause much damage and stress. This causes mothers to love their babies so much more. He also makes them half of us. If you do not love your baby, God does not want you to have it.

Ah, using my Christian faith against me I see. Yes it is true God wants mothers to take care of their babies. However this violates God's rule of freewill. A mother cannot be forced to love her child. Some mothers just aren't fit to take care of children so they give them up for adoption. And again most children in America aren't unwanted. There's established adoption clinics for the purpose of unwanted pregnancies alone and the parents gladly receive them with open arms.

Please look at the comment section below!
libertarian

Pro

>>> Women who do abortion face a number of possible complications including...
+++ No. I am right. You are exaggerating on your list of harmful effects. The four you mentioned that were correct were excessive bleeding, infection of the uterus or fallopian tubes, damage to the uterus or cervix, and emotional or psychological distress. Emotional distress is an expected effect that is the woman's choice. And a kid, especially an unwanted one will cause a lot more distress, than an abortion. Bleeding is an effect of any surgery. The other two are possible effects that are unfortunate, but rare. And the women are warned of these effects beforehand. http://www.nlm.nih.gov...
>>> Breast cancer risk
+++ This is tremendously flawed. Please show sources. And a small breast cancer risk is no reason to have a kid, especially if you were raped or would die from the birth.
>>> Isn't death a risk for every pregnancy? Are you now saying we shouldn't have children?
+++ Some women are known to be prone to death before the birth. Why would these women be forced to die? Are you, morally, going to let a woman kill herself for a bunch of embryos that nobody knows or cares about? No.
>>> It is ironic to state that it is immoral to force women to die from a pre-known death for a stranger because a lot of these people do not have families.
+++ How dare you! You are really reaching here. Many women get pregnant during marriage and don't want the child because they will die because of it. Some of the Supreme Court justices during Roe vs. Wade solely based their votes off of this. Sure, some teenagers get abortions, which is a great option, but some of those girls will die from the birth and are known in advance of their deaths. Even they should not be killed. To force a woman to kill herself is immoral.
>>> She will not necessarily die because she gives birth but the child WILL.
+++ YES, SHE WILL! There are women whose bodies can no longer give birth. If they get an abortion they can live. If they don't they will die for the sake of the child who cost the life of a loved one. This baby doesn't deserve to be born without a mother. And the families don't deserve to loose the mother, wife, daughter, and friend.
>>> The abortion option.
+++ This is unfair. How can you suggest that a woman carry around a baby for 9 months while being sick and miserable? Especially if she was raped. A raped woman is victim enough. Do not punish her more with 9 months of torture only to give up a baby that she cannot take care of. And what about the women who are known to die after birth? Are you going to let them die? You have yet to explain for them.
>>> No proof of prostitution argument.
+++ My argument is defensive. I don't need to support it if you can't. Argument dropped.
>>> What! How do you rationalize this? Prostitution often means cheating on your wife or girlfriend and it spreads diseases!
+++ That's a different debate. Prostitution does not hurt anybody. Adultery is the crime. If the prostitute is not spreading disease, it is consentual sex and should not be illegal. Victimless crimes cost a lot of money to enforce for no reason.
>>> Prostitutes will get raped.
+++ How can somebody who is being paid to have sex be raped by their client?
>>> New fetuses are human! No their not. A rock can not feel, think or do much of anything. Much like a fetus. You can destroy a rock legally. Like you can abort a fetus legally. If the thing is not human, don't call it human. Scientists don't claim a fetus to be a human until 26 weeks. If science isn't good enough proof for you...nothing is.
>>> Girls who get abortions may commit suicide.
+++ It's their decision to get the abortion and they don't commit suicide that often. And girls who are pregnant as teenagers probably have other, bigger problems in their life. You can't say this is related.
>>> Why should the child be punished by rape?
+++ How dare you! This is an outlandish statement. The child is not being punished. There is no child! Not until 26 weeks when abortions are typically illegal. If a woman is raped she shouldn't have to take care of a kid for the rest of her life from a man she probably doesn't even know. If a teenage girl is raped, she should not have to ruin her life, which is statistically more likely.
>>> Women make laws and some are pro-life.
+++ I didn't say I was using the sexist argument. You just imposed it on me. But it is legitimate. Because there are women who are wrong. There are people with differing opinions in every demographic. Most women will think abortion bans are unfair. The ones who have read the facts anyway.
1. The government does not, and should not have the right to control a woman's body.
>>> Yet isn't the child a "body." The government would be controlling the child's body in this instance.
+++ No! Science says the child is not a body or a person for 26 weeks. If a woman is raped she should not be forced to carry around a baby for any amount of time. And the government has no right to tell either way.
2. "Back alley" abortions were very common in times when abortion was legal. These abortions included women sticking hangars into their bodies to kill their fetuses. This will continue if abortion is criminalized.
>>> Back alley abortions are less common.
+++ Back alley abortions were less common, but they happened. This often killed the woman and the child? Is this a reasonable solution? No.
3. A child that is unwanted will be neglected. GOD wants mothers to want their babies.
>>> this violates God's rule of freewill. A mother cannot be forced to love her child.
+++ No. God is not forcing anyone to love the kid. He is giving them the option. It is the exact opposite. God is hoping they will love their babies and is giving them the boost.
4. Neglected children will be the inevitable result. They are a lot more likely to become criminals.
>>> Can you prove this? Adopted kids.
http://search.yahoo.com...
Adopted kids are often neglected as well. More often than not.
5. One brief mistake can take away a woman's childhood and trap her for life.
>>> Yes and this would be having sex before marriage. It has nothing to do with the topic.
+++ You cannot force the Christian religion on all Americans. It is legal to have sex before marriage and should not be punishable.. And those who are raped have no choice. Some fathers even force their child to have the rape-result baby.
6. Abortion is not murder because it is performed before a fetus has developed into a human person.
>>> (website)
+++ I used science. 26 weeks. Your turn.
7. Some women are raped. Should they be forced to keep the rapist's baby and take care of it?
>>> Approximately only 1% percent of all abortions are attributed to rape and incest.
+ I don't think this is true. But even one of these cases is horrible and so immoral.
8. Women can die from pregnancy and birth. Should these women be killed?
>>> This was a risk for EVERY WOMAN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME!
+++ Some women are more prone to die or certain to die from birth.
9. Abortion bans have been ruled unconstitutional because they are detremental to women's health. We have the right to life. The government cannot force a woman to have herself killed.
>>> Arguments above should suffice. It's a risk every woman takes.
+++ No. It's not.
1. Define "fully developed."
+++ Able to feel and think, physically too.
2. Explain why adoption or foster care is wrong.
+++ Raped women should not be punished with 9 months of carrying a baby. Some women are certain to die from birth.
3. Is there any other reasons why abortion is right despite the fact you think it should be a woman's choice?
+++ Rape, women who will die, teenagers lives, etc.
SOME WOMEN ARE CERTAIN TO DIE! ONLY ILLEGAL ABORTIONS KILL WOMEN
Debate Round No. 2
christiandebater

Con

For the last round I will mostly post links to provide evidence. I will skip some points that tend to repeat itself or are irrelevant for space.
+++ No. I am right. You are exaggerating on your list of harmful …
Um, ok your link just proved my point. The things I listed wouldn't necessarily happen but they are risks and they have happened. Here's a link. http://www.abortionfacts.com...
>>> Breast cancer risk
Look at this link. http://www.abortionfacts.com...
+++ Some women are known to be prone to death before the birth…
This link should argue my point. http://www.abortionfacts.com...?
>>> It is ironic to state that it is immoral to force women to die from a pre-known death for a stranger because a lot of these people do not have families.
This is NOT what I said or meant. Quit twisting my words!
+++ How dare you! You are really reaching here. Many women get…
You should have stated this point in Round 1 if it was so important. The link above should suffice for my argument.
>>> The abortion option.
+++ This is unfair. How can you suggest that a woman carry around a…
Read this. I'm not being unfair. http://www.abortionfacts.com...
+++ How can somebody who is being paid to have sex be raped by their client?
You obviously didn't read my link well enough. www.rapeis.org/activism/prostitution/prostitutionfacts.html
>>> New fetuses are human! No their not. A rock can not feel, think…
First off, your comparing a fetus to a rock! This scientific claim has not been proved, it is merely a theory. You can't prove to me a fetus is not human unless scientists have without a doubt proved it! Everyone knows gravity exists because numerous experiments have been done to prove it. A fetus not being human is a different story. Show proof.
+++ It's their decision to get the abortion and they don't commit…
Yes it's their decision. However a lot of women don't know how traumatic this can be. Read my link in Round 2.
+++ I didn't say I was using the sexist argument. You just imposed it…
Another outlandish statement without proof. I know of PLENTY of women who disagree with abortion, my mother included. www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36802
+++ No! Science says the child is not a body or a person for 26 weeks. If a woman is raped she should not be forced to carry around a baby for any amount of time. And the government has no right to tell either way.
Well the government thing is what I would expect from a libertarian. But the United States is "for the people, by the people." Still don't see proof for the "fetus isn't a human" thing.
+++ Back alley abortions were less common, but they happened. This often killed the woman and the child? Is this a reasonable solution? No.
Did you read my links? I know they happened but legalized abortion is more common now than when it was illegal.
+++ No. God is not forcing anyone to love the kid. He is giving them the option. It is the exact opposite. God is hoping they will love their babies and is giving them the boost.
That's what I was trying to say! But, God hates abortion! If you're going to bring my faith into this, here's Biblical evidence why abortion is wrong. www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/abortion.html
http://search.yahoo.com...... It's really sad about child abuse isn't it? L However, I asked for statistics about abuse for adopted kids. You showed me abuse in general. Most people who adopt want children so the statistics would be a lot lower for adoptive kids. Show me a statistic that goes with my point.
+++ You cannot force the Christian religion on all Americans. It is legal to have sex before marriage and should not be punishable.. And those who are raped have no choice. Some fathers even force their child to have the rape-result baby.
I'm not forcing anything on anyone! Not to mention it's impossible to force someone to believe something. Just because it's LEGAL doesn't make it RIGHT! You're a Libertarian so you know what I'm talking about. I must have misunderstood your point or something because I think I addressed it quite clearly.

+++ Able to feel and think, physically too.
Just because something is not fully developed doesn't make it inhuman. A person with a birth defect like no eyes or they're blind, or lame, or any other defect you can think of doesn't make them inhuman. Just because something not fully developed doesn't make them inhuman. I' not saying you said this. I'm just making a point.
2. Explain why adoption or foster care is wrong.
+++ Raped women should not be punished with 9 months of carrying a baby. Some women are certain to die from birth.
And this answers my point…how?
+++ Rape, women who will die, teenagers lives, etc.
SOME WOMEN ARE CERTAIN TO DIE! ONLY ILLEGAL ABORTIONS KILL WOMEN
I think I've addressed all these points. And the last claim is ridiculous. I gave evidence. You even agreed with some of it.

I enjoyed this debate. I honestly don't care who "wins." This debate has made me grow stronger in my beliefs, but you showed me another side of the argument. Feel free to challenge me again. Thank you for your time.
I will post a link that makes good points on the topic. Feel free to check out the whole site. Peace out! http://www.abortionfacts.com...
libertarian

Pro

+++ You're list of harmful effects was exaggerated. My link shows only a few effects that I remarked upon. Your website is a biased, conservative website that listed some effects that may have happened or not, but do not happen often. My website, on the other hand, is a medical website that had the effects and explained why you would get them. But the point is, LEGAL ABORTIONS ARE TYPICALLY VERY SAFE. Illegal abortions, which will come if abortion is criminalized, which is proven in history, are almost always unsafe. But abortions are so important to women that they are willing to take the extreme risk.
+++ My medical website link does not show breast cancer to be a serious risk. And I do not believe your link. My link is medical. Your link is a biased conservative website. And these women are willing to risk breast cancer, if your link is correct. It is and should be their freedom to suck out that embryo if they want to take the risk. The women, individually, should decide if they want to risk breast cancer.
+++ Some women are known to be prone to death before the birth. Certain women are not healthy enough to give birth. These women will die without abortion.
+++ Many Supreme Court Justices based their Roe vs. Wade vote on the fact that some women are known to die without an abortion. You cannot ignore this. I did present this in the first round.
+++ A woman who was RAPED should NOT have to carry around a child around for nine months only to give the baby to an orphanage. A teenage girl should not be socially stigmatized because of one mistake she made. As a juvenile, she should not have to pay so dearly for her actions. Especially, for a little mistake. Adoption does not suffice for women who will DIE from child birth.
+++ Somebody who is being paid to have sex cannot be raped by their client. That is just illogical.
>>> You can't prove to me a fetus is not human unless scientists have without a doubt proved it! Show proof.
+++ http://www.health.state.mn.us...: Minnesota Health Dept.
http://www.nytimes.com...: New York Times
Neither of my sites are biased. Your sites are. Mine are medical.
>>> A lot of women don't know how traumatic this can be.
+++ A lot of women know the potential truama. You cannot limit people's freedom like that. Raped women, teenage girls, women who will die should not be subject to a child. If their knowledge is your concern, then a good alternative is to show people the potential effects before getting an abortion, not forcing these girls to have an unwanted child.
+++ Your link is irrelevant. A poll can say anything. This link says that most Americans are pro-choice: http://www.naral.org.... And I still didn't say I wanted to use the sexist argument!
>>> But the United States is "for the people, by the people." Still don't see proof for the "fetus isn't a human" thing.
+++ Exactly! Our government is FOR THE PEOPLE! Give them their freedoms! The Constitution uses the word not to restrict the government 22 times! The founding fathers would be disgraced by pro-lifers. http://www.health.state.mn.us...: Minnesota Health Dept.
http://www.nytimes.com...: New York Times
Neither of my sites are biased. Your sites are. Mine are medical.
>>> Legalized abortion is more common now than when it was illegal.
+++ WOW! Of course, legalized abortions would be more common because most people don't want the health risks with illegal abortions or to break the law! Illegal abortions were common! They were typically unsafe and killed the woman and the baby. Why would you want this? You wouldn't.
+++ God does not oppose abortion. God opposes murder! Abortion is not murder! God, obviously, wants a mother to love her child so she has to suffer with it for nine months. This is why you see a lot more fathers abandoning children than mothers. Forcing a woman to have a child is against God's plan. My mother, a Christian, got an abortion as a teenager. She knows that if she would have had that child without wanting to, she would have neglected it.
+++ This is the US Dept. of Health and Human Services saying that adopted children are often abused and neglected. http://www.acf.hhs.gov...
+++ You cannot force the Christian religion on all Americans. Abortion is not immoral. Abortion is logically beneficial. Christian conservatives are the ones opposing abortion for false religious reasons. We have the freedom religion. Religious conservatives are destroying this country.
+++ A person with a birth defect is fully developed for them. But they can think, feel pain, react to noise. They are a person.
+++ If a woman if raped, she should not be punished by carrying around a child for nine months and the emotionally turmoil of having a kid in the world that is her fault but is unloved. That kid is probably unloved, neglected and abused. These type of children are statistically more often criminals. Some women WILL DIE from child birth because they are not healthy enough. Teenage girls should not be punished.

+++ You did not even debate! You just copy and pasted "abortionfacts.com" a religiously conservative website. That is unfair.

+++ Raped women are already victims. Why would you force these women to have a child only to, most likely, neglect it, so it can become a criminal. Or give it up for an unfair adoption, so it can be neglected and become a criminal.

+++ Some women are not healthy enough to have children. THEY WILL DIE without abortion! Why would you kill these women? You wouldn't.

+++ Teenage girls make little mistakes and should not have to pay with their lives.

+++ Illegal abortions included women shoving hangars down themselves. There were other ways of doing this but the fact is that these abortions were unsafe. Often, the woman and the baby would die. This is how important abortion is. You do not want illegal abortions!

+++ The Constitution restricts the government with the word "not" 22 times! The founding fathers do not want to criminalize what a woman does with her own body!

Thank you for the debate. I hope you guys vote PRO.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by bacon 6 years ago
bacon
You would rather save a tree than save a life you ignorant fool.
he does have a point here libertarian
Posted by bacon 6 years ago
bacon
Can you prove this? Parents are legally allowed to give their children to adoptive parents. This will ensure a safe life for the child. And who are you to say that all unwanted pregnancies will end up in criminal kids. This is something you need to show me a statistic to prove.

Well u use statistics to prove that gays are more loose and promiscuous but u dont like it when a generalization is used against u. i do agree that abortion is murdur you cant get around that i dont understand how people say it isnt because it is. but unwanted pregnancies usually leads to neglected children weather in an orphanage or in a home with their parents. Not every child put up for adomption gets dopted thats a risk ran by parents doing this. Neglected children usually become outstanding people with a goal to be better than thewir parents or people with trust isssues and filled with anger and hate and take it out on the world with criminal actions. psychiatrist say this all the time.
Posted by ally93 6 years ago
ally93
you are right i am against killing babies too. it is so wrong its like people dont even care. if they want to have sex and not want to get pregnant then they should use two condoms instead of one. that way they know for sure they wouldnt have a baby. and make the choose of getting an abortion.
Posted by christiandebater 6 years ago
christiandebater
Oh and a note to NowJewSeeMeN.... Why did you make that comment in the first place. It says in your profile you agree with abortion.
Posted by christiandebater 6 years ago
christiandebater
"You're supposed to vote on the better debater, not the position yu [wrongfully] agree with!"

Maybe he thinks I debated the best libertarian. Just because you're good doesn't mean you're the best. And let's say the title of a debate is "Killing babies should be legal." And let's say the Pro is a really good debater and the Con basically sucks. Would you vote Pro because he's the better debater or Con because he agrees with your viewpoint.
Posted by libertarian 6 years ago
libertarian
You're supposed to vote on the better debater, not the position yu [wrongfully] agree with!
Posted by NowJewSeeMeNowJewDont 6 years ago
NowJewSeeMeNowJewDont
You Baby killing IDIOT! And I bet you wish that we could save the environment too. You would rather save a tree than save a life you ignorant fool.
Posted by christiandebater 6 years ago
christiandebater
I was not able to fit the rest of my argument in the box. Here's the rest.

4. Neglected children will be the inevitable result. They are a lot more likely to become criminals.

Can you prove this? Parents are legally allowed to give their children to adoptive parents. This will ensure a safe life for the child. And who are you to say that all unwanted pregnancies will end up in criminal kids. This is something you need to show me a statistic to prove.

5. One brief mistake can take away a woman's childhood and trap her for life.

Yes and this would be having sex before marriage. It has nothing to do with the topic.

6. Abortion is not murder because it is performed before a fetus has developed into a human person.

I listed an argument above but here is an extra link about fetal development. http://www.abortionfacts.com...

7. Some women are raped. Should they be forced to keep the rapist's baby and take care of it?

I have an argument above. But here's a fact. Approximately only 1% percent of all abortions are attributed to rape and incest.

8. Women can die from pregnancy and birth. Should these women be killed? Should their child's due date be a countdown for days left to live? What about their friends and families?

This was a risk for EVERY WOMAN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME! It fails to pose an argument against anything.

9. Abortion bans have been ruled unconstitutional because they are detremental to women's health. We have the right to life. The government cannot force a woman to have herself killed.

Arguments above should suffice. It's a risk every woman takes. You might as well outlaw children the way you're making it sound.

I look forward to your next response. Here are more points:

1.Define "fully developed."
2.Explain why adoption or foster care is wrong.
3.Is there any other reasons why abortion is right despite the fact you think it should be a woman's choice?
Posted by libertarian 6 years ago
libertarian
After this debate, I intend to debate you drugs and gay marriage. This is what I'll say in the gay marriage first round:
Gay marriage is great.

1. Gays do not have a choice to be gay and it is perfectly natural.

2. Gays can take care of kids just as well, if not better, than heterosexuals.

3. More couples means more families, which is great for society.

4. The definition of marriage can change. It'll deal.

5. The government should not try to stop love. It is immoral.

6. Gays will be able to visit their sick partners in the hospital.

7. Gays will be able to automatically inherit money from their spouses.

8. There will be less orphans.
17 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by tmhustler 5 years ago
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