The Instigator
Dagen
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
AverageJoe23
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Abortion should be legal.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Dagen
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/15/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 456 times Debate No: 67076
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

Dagen

Pro

Rules~
1. Forfeits lose
2. Religion is not an acceptable reason
3. No new material allowed in the fifth round
4. Have a respectful debate

Abortion= The deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.

I am giving the advantage to CON to start the opening arguments.
AverageJoe23

Con

Abortion is the taking away of human life. Ever heard the saying "You will miss every single shot you don't take"? That can be applied here. If you kill your child (which is exactly what you are doing), that child will never grow up to be anything. What if that child was going to be the next Albert Einstein? What if they were going to cure cancer? There is no way of knowing unless you allow your child to be born and allow life to take its course. On top of taking away a human's life, you are just being selfish. What right do you have to claim that a human life is more important than you? Even in rape cases, that child is a blessing. Have the child and give it to an adoption clinic or to a family that wants a child but can't have one. Just about every option is better than aborting. Abortion is wrong. I understand that this is probably shorter than what people are used to seeing, but there really isn't much more that needs to be said. Abortion should not be legal.
Debate Round No. 1
Dagen

Pro

What if the child was a murderer or the next Hitler? You can't base whether abortion is wrong on what ifs.

Scenario: A pregnant 17-year-old who lived without electricity or running water in rural Utah, who was knocked up by an older man and who certainly had no way to get to a doctor or pay for an abortion, paid a man $150 to beat her in the stomach.

Making abortion illegal will not prevent abortion. It will only bring about young women going to dangerous alternatives for abortion, as Temperance does not work in any case.

Scenario: A homeless women gets raped. Unable to get an abortion because they have been outlawed, she does not want to break the law and decided to have the baby anyway. The baby is born under a bridge during winter and later dies a slow painful death because the single homeless mother could not provide food and health care.

That is much less humane than an early abortion before the third trimester where pain is not felt and a conscious has not yet been developed.

Abortion is not wrong which is why it is currently legal in all 50 states.
AverageJoe23

Con

My argument can actually have a lot to do with "what ifs". For example, what if your mother had aborted you? You and I would not be having this argument. What if your mother and father had a daughter after you were born (keep in mind that I have no idea what kind of siblings you have) and your parents had decided to have her aborted? I would be willing to bet your opinion on abortion would be a little different.
Now to assess the scenarios you provided in your previous argument.
Number 1: There is a reason that it is not considered legal to have sex until you are 18 or older. People under 18 don't have a fully developed brain and can not make fully rational decisions. For example, paying a man money to punch you in the gut because you are scared to host a child. Other options would be to give the child to an adoption center or to keep the child and learn a life lesson to teach said child about when they are old enough to understand it.
Number 2: Rape is a touchy subject. There are morons out there who believe that a woman can reject sperm if she doesn't want to host a child, such as in a rape situation.. Unfortunately that doesn't happen. Other options would be to (again) give the child up for adoption or give it to a hospital.
You mention how abortion is humane in your previous argument. Well, please explain to me what is humane about killing an unborn human before they even have a chance to become anything.
Debate Round No. 2
Dagen

Pro

Humane= Intended to have a civilizing or refining effect on people

By definition as long as you intend to have a civilizing or refining effect on people it is humane. Whether or not something is humane is not in the eye of society, it is in the eye of the mother/doctor participating in the abortion. As long as the mother has good intentions it is humane.

What if's can be presented but are not a valid argument, as they have not happened yet and can not be proved that they will happen. That seems to be your only argument so as of now I believe I am winning.
AverageJoe23

Con

Ok, here's the deal. I was looking over this trying to decide what I want to say for my next argument, and I realized something. I am arguing the right point in the wrong debate. What I am saying is that abortion is wrong. You are saying abortion should be legal. Well, I agree. Abortion should be legal because if it isn't, we end up with really bad scenarios like in Dirty Dancing (Yes, I have seen that movie). When people need abortions, they go to the back allies and get some half wit who just got his medical license revoked to cut them open and take out the baby. Well, that isn't safe. Abortion should be legal, but there should be tons of regulations on getting one. For example, rape. If you get raped, that is one way you should be ALLOWED an abortion. But if you are a 25 year old woman who got knocked up a month before her wedding, to bad. No abortion for you just because you want to look good in your wedding dress. What I am trying to say is we are both right. Abortion is wrong but unfortunately should be legal so that when someone NEEDS it, they have access to it and don't have to go to some shady guy in a back alley. I probably won't make a next round argument as I have nothing to argue for. My point doesn't belong in this debate, and I should have thought about it more before I jumped in.
Debate Round No. 3
Dagen

Pro

So you agree that abortion should be legal?

And thanks for the rape scenario opinion.
AverageJoe23

Con

Yes. Abortion should be legal but only in very specific scenarios.
I am sorry that you had to go through that whole deal with being left at an adoption center. Look at it this way, at least you are alive. You can make a difference in the world. Don't let anyone tell you anything different. Everyone is here for a reason, its just up to you to decide why. You need to write your own story.
Thanks for the sporty debate, even when I wasn't necessarily arguing correctly.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by MattStPaul 1 year ago
MattStPaul
Pro wrote: "... as long as you intend to have a civilizing or refining effect on people it is humane" and "As long as the mother [doctor] has good intentions it is humane."
Well then, Hitler intended to have a civilizing or refining effect on people, as he hoped to purify the earth from "the terrible Jews." So, then according to Pro's logic society shouldn't judge Hitler b/c he intended to civilize and refine the earth.
Now, of course that's not what Pro meant. But it proves that society can (and should) judge society. We are all thinking, reasoning, capable beings blessed with life (from God).
Also, what ifs are valid arguments. They are called Hypotheticals and the United States Supreme Court, as well as our law schools across the nation, uses of them to provoke reasoning, consideration, and thinking. They can be persuasive, and for those reasons, hypotheticals are valid arguments and appropriate.

And Con, abortion should NOT be legal for several reasons, one being it is a big business that exploits women for profit. Doctor's offices push abortions and do not adequately inform women of the long term consequences (guilt, possible permanent child-bearing damage). Even if I was the product of a rape, I would be glad I had a chance to live. My biological mother aborted her first child, the one right before me. My step-mother aborted a child and she was damaged so she could never have children again. Laws only make matters more cumbersome. Instead, abortion is dangerous b/c it creates a "fix-all" that fixes nothing and leaves much work needed to psychologically/physically aid an aborting woman in recovering; it is a big (inhumane) business; it neglects the rights of the unborn (God given inalienable rights); it has been "redefined" so as to make a gruesome act more palpable (calling it pro-choice v killing an innocent child).
Sorry to vent and "debate" all that on the Comments. Maybe I can challenge Pro on this, since Con tanked the argument in the end.
MSP
Posted by Thejackal 1 year ago
Thejackal
I'm sorry that that happened to you. The last thing that I want to say is that if you take religion out of my life and if you took my relationship with God away from me, I would probably feel just like you. May God bless and keep you.
Posted by Dagen 1 year ago
Dagen
TheJackal please leave religion out of this. God did not take care of Adel**** Beaulieu my mother who was in fact raped and I was born into an orphanage (Alabama Baptist Childrens Homes & Family Ministries) when she decided to give me up at birth.
Through the first 14 years of personal experience the option to give a child up at birth to an orphanage is not humane whatsoever.

This is not relevant to the debate, but I hate when people say that is a humane option to abortion.
Posted by Thejackal 1 year ago
Thejackal
I'm going to have to Side With Joe here. First of all, I hate when people say that they "think" they win before they do. Second, About the what if thing, I'm wonder how Dagen would feel if he had been aborted. Not trying to be mean but, you are taking life away from a human, are you not? And, as much as I don't like saying this, I personally believe that God does everything for his glory, so if a girl did get raped, which I hate the thought of, God would find a way to take care of them and use them for His glory. Now I know that you might not believe in the same God I do so don't feel like you have to make an argument, but I know that unless someone was trying to hurt me, I would never want to kill someone and take there whole entire life away from them. And if a woman that did get raped got an abortion, in God's eyes she would have stooped down even lower than the man that had raped her. I'm not trying to start anything and I understand the fact that if you Don't believe in God that this really has no reverence to you. @Dagen-------- Good Luck Joe.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Valkrin 1 year ago
Valkrin
DagenAverageJoe23Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession by Con.