The Instigator
Chiinchillin
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Rightreform
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

Abortion should be legal

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Rightreform
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/18/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 356 times Debate No: 91494
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

Chiinchillin

Pro

My position on this topic is that abortion should be allowed. I feel that it is a woman's natural right to choose. I am looking forward to hearing someone who disagrees as well as why they disagree, in order to understand different viewpoints. Thank you c:
Rightreform

Con

Thank you for having this debate with me Chiinchillin, I want to let you know that this is my first debate but by no means should you take it easy on me.
My stance on this issue is that it is wrong to legalize abortions, and that if it were legal then that in itself would not validate the killing of an unborn baby.
The term pro choice is a hot button, which masks the social genocide of the unborn babies. The word pro choice is tipping scales on which this topic balances whether the intent to kill should be lawful or if one should care for the unborn human child's ethical rights.
I use the words human child, because that is what this infant child is. The Infant is "ALIVE" and it is "HUMAN in NATURE"
As someone once said: 'Nature is a great inspiration' Mothers and Fathers (such as myself) have the right to get current and accurate information about the embryo's development which is superbly written in DNA, which also characterizes and describes physical traits of the baby . Mothers should also be taught about the Dangers and consequences that they would face from an abortion.
To abort the life, which is human in nature, is to kill that which is human in nature. Therefore I argue that the mother has no right to kill that which is human inside her. I urge all of you not to allow the law to be used as an instrument for justifying such an abhorrent act.
Debate Round No. 1
Chiinchillin

Pro

Thank you, Rightreform, for being respectful in this debate. This is my first debate as well, and by no means would I like you to take it easy on me. Oftentimes, it is argued that abortion is murder- a common argument. However, this is not the case. Nearly all abortions occur in the first trimester of pregnancy (about 12 weeks). This takes place when the fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her heath; thus, it cannot be regarded as a separate entity due to the fact that it cannot exist outside of the mother's womb. Also, studies have demonstrated that fetuses do not feel pain when abortions are performed. Neuroscientists have argued that because a cortex is critical in order to feel pain, and is not yet functional when most abortions are performed, the fetus is unable to feel any pain. The cortex only becomes functional around the 26th week of pregnancy (around the third trimester). Abortion can also give women the the option to minimize a child's suffering in the case that the child is born with severe birth disorders or defects that would result in the child living a difficult, painful life. Some of these disorders can be so severe that death is guaranteed after a short, painful life. For some, death imminent to birth is also a possibility.
Furthermore, it is foolish to believe that simply making abortion illegal will keep people from getting them. (ie. Drugs are illegal, but people still obtain them, oftentimes with more dangers involved.) Abortions will still occur- however, they will occur illegally, and with significantly higher risk involved. Prior to the recognition of abortion and various advances in the field of medicine, back-alley abortions used to be performed via coat hangers, illegal/unregulated pharmaceutical products, knitting needles or a punch to the stomach. If there is no legal, viable alternative, couples or mothers will inevitably resort to these back-alley operations, which are both highly dangerous, and will likely prove deadly for the mother.
Rightreform

Con

Any sane person knows that murder is wrong, and they will recognize that abortion is also wrong. I will demonstrate that life is an 'independent reality' it does not need us to agree on how to describe it in our minds in order for it to exist. We have never created it, but we certainly can destroy it. It is essential that we help society to close the emotional distance between a mother and a father with their son or daughter, in order to see clearly the value of that child's life.

Many people today have adopted the concepts that are common in our society today. Many of us were taught to accept the definition that we were taught in school of what life is. The truth is that there is not a precise definition of what separates the living from the non-living. What we believe is only an approximation, because every new observation brings us closer to reality. Let's say someone's brain and body is functioning on a base level and there is definitely metabolic activity in all of the cells that make up the larger organism, are they to be considered to be non living? Do we have the right to erase the force that actuates the body. Even if we have a body that has all the same parts of a living body none of us can give to that body life, not even with the help of so called scientific technology. With that thought, who are we to play god and take that life away?

In the opposing argument abortion is made to sound humane. In response, I want to describe the mentality of someone getting an abortion, she may be good person who has become disconnected with her humanity. When we talk about murder we are like virgins talking about sex, study's have shown that on the battlefield soldiers have not been able to kill other people face to face. So the question became how do you train a soldier to kill? A human being can be desensitize to killing by increasing the 'Emotional and Physical distance' from them and their foe. Emotional distance includes; Cultural distance: viewing the enemy as an inferior life form. Social Distance: a form of classifying others as lesser beings. Mechanical distance: viewing the enemy through some sort of device. These same qualities can be turned around into an emotional and physical closeness, then parents will gain a new found bond with their offspring.

When we decide whether abortion is wrong and should be illegal I want everyone to picture in their own mind a tall young girl of 9 or 10 years of age, with pretty long brunette hair, with light brown skin, her name is Sarah, listen to the sound of her heart beat feel her breathe on your skin look deep into her light blue eyes. You hear her breath getting faster and you feel the sweat in her hands and sense the fear in her eyes as she realizes you hold her life in your hands. What will you do? This is a vivid illustration of what the unborn child will look like. Science has shown that the DNA is encoded with these details at the time of conception. Such as eye color, height, hair color, skin color, and sex. This illustrations just puts back into an emotional connection that this could be your daughter. Before you make a decision to end this life, hopefully you will come back to the reality that this is your little girl, that she is a living human being.

Life begins at conception there is no other time that it can happen. This living being is HUMAN, to illustrate my point ask yourselves: Would you put a human fetus in the womb of a dog? Ofcourse not! Whether this unborn child does not have legs or whether he or she has any arms, or is physically ill or handicapped does not make him or her less of a HUMAN. The very nature of this unborn baby is HUMAN.

The lack of natural affection does not make abortion okay on any circumstance legal or illegal. The very essence of life does not change by what we name it, for lack of a better word in this argument I use the connotation of the word life: that which begins at fertilization. We need to restore the natural love for our sons and daughters. By changing the language and information given to our community, we can change the concepts that have distanced us from our humanity. We can start by making abortion illegal.
Debate Round No. 2
Chiinchillin

Pro

A fetus is a form of life. It is made up of live cells; it grows and processes energy, and has the potential to mature. However, this does not mean that abortion is killing another human being. Although a fetus is "alive", so are all of the other cells in a human body. A fetus is a part of a woman"s body; it develops because the woman"s physiology causes changes and development to occur. Conceptions, as well as pregnancies, are both processes. Therefore life is a process as well, not simply a point in time.
Human reproduction begins with fertilization- when a sperm cell and an egg cell* are unified, and the chromosomes necessary to form an embryo are fused. The now-fertilized egg is referred to as a zygote. Sperm penetration causes depolarization and results in the last round of division in the nucleus of the egg, forming a pronucleus containing one set of genetic information. Once the pronuclei from both the sperm and egg merge, cell division begins. After this, the still dividing zygote is pushed through the Fallopian tube. Once the zygote contains about 100 cells, it is called a blastocyst. When a blastocyst reaches the uterine lining, it implants itself and the actual pregnancy begins. However, it is important to note that there is a flaw with the "life begins at conception" argument due to the fact that only a fraction of zygotes/blastocysts proceed to form a human being, and that the blastocyst can fail to implant as well. If it fails to implant, it can be passed through something such as the woman"s menstrual cycle. If this occurs, and the zygote is considered a human being, is it now an accidental murder? This can certainly be considered a sort of spontaneous abortion. It only has the potential to become a human, which is not actually equal to being one.
Continuing on the process of the actual pregnancy itself, if the egg sticks to the lining of the uterus, it triggers hormonal changes which prevent the woman"s next menstrual period from occurring. Once the blastocyst implants, it is an embryo. The shape of it changes due to cells beginning to shift to different positions, taking on different functions and forming different tissues that will later become various parts of the body. The entire embryo, at this point, is still only about 2 millimeters in size. Later, the placenta forms and connects the embryo to the blood circulation system of the woman. Throughout the entire pregnancy, it remains attached to the placenta. The embryo cannot survive independent of the mother because it is a part of her, just like how a single living cell cannot survive independent of a body. It cannot get its own food, clear waste or breathe independent of the woman. It receives oxygen and nutrients from food through her blood. In the third month of pregnancy, the fetus begins to grow arms, legs, fingers, toes, and sex organs. It is undergoing a lot of exterior changes, but its internal organs, muscles, skeleton, and nervous system are underdeveloped. It is now only around 25 millimeters in size. Since it cannot live independent of the mother, it cannot be described as a separate entity.
It is also around this point (First trimester) that over 90% of abortions are performed. It is very rare for abortions to occur in the second and third trimesters, and it is only performed in the third trimester to save the woman"s life due to complications arising from the pregnancy. Abortion in the second trimester can be performed. But it can be difficult for women to find a doctor to do it. And this can be extremely difficult, as well as harmful, for the woman, both physically and emotionally. The woman will sometimes be left alone, in an induced labor, to expel the fetus. Increasing state laws that impose waiting periods and the lack of abortion facilities in rural areas will likely force more women to have abortions in the second trimester. During the third trimester, during the 8th and 9th months, final organ formation takes place, this is also when new brain cells are formed and major nerve tracks develop. However, much of the brain development that occurs in humans takes place in the 6+ months after birth. The fetus has little to no chance of surviving in the 7th month of pregnancy if a premature birth occurs- due to the fact that its internal organs are not developed enough. At the end of the nine months of pregnancy, the fetus has developed enough to be born and live independently of the mother. As soon as the umbilical cord connecting the woman and fetus is cut, the supply of the woman"s oxygen to the fetus is cut and the newborn takes its first independent breath. This is when it is an independent human. It is then it is a baby.

*With the mentality that a zygote should be protected because it can form a human being, why do we not also protect male sperm and female eggs (of which are living cells); because they can form a zygote which can form a human being? Would this label a male who has masturbated a mass murderer for killing around 250 million sperm cells?
Rightreform

Con

Thank you very much chiinchillin for your time and energy on your argument. I appreciate all of your efforts in this debate.

This process as you describe it is very important to a child's development. If a pregnant woman, (AKA. MOTHER) loves and cherishes her baby she will take care of her body when she is pregnant. Everything that mother does can impact that child's life. Why should we discourage mothers from drinking alcohol, smoking, drinking caffeine, or from doing drugs? Why is it important for mothers to stay away from chemicals, or to have children before 35? It is because when we love our children we cherish their right to have healthy and happy lives! Even if the mother has to make changes in her lifestyle or undergo difficulties. It is our responsibility. So we can not think that killing our baby is morally, ethically, and lawfully right.

To prove that it is ethically wrong consider this quote by Ronald Reagon
"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
This observation is clearly irrefutable, so nobody who has been granted life should take the side of death.
Only life can give life. Life can not come from death.

At this point let us change the question from when human life begins, but instead consider 'What is the value of human life?
"The abortionist who reassembles the arms and legs of a tiny baby to make sure all of its parts have been torn from its mother's body can hardly doubt whether it is a human being. The real question for him and for all of us is whether that tiny human life has a God-given right to be protected by the law - the same right we have."
https://patriotpost.us...

The value of life has dropped along with the lack of good judgement which has resulted from the sexual liberation that focuses on terms of rights, or individual desires""what I want, what I may pursue", while it destroys the common good, by undermining families and rotting whole neighborhoods from within, but none of this seems to matter. What results is children growing up without fathers or mothers, of the incidence of venereal diseases, of births out of wedlock, of delinquency and crime. Ignoring our principles has destroyed the fabric of our community, selfishness has guided our decisions, those who are most powerful get their way!

The greatest example of these crimes is ABORTION.

"We cannot diminish the value of one category of human life - the unborn - without diminishing the
value of all human life.
http://www.bing.com...?

Another cause of the lack of good judgement is that;
Profit is usually more important than a conscience in the world we live in today,

"Those who defend abortion, arguing that it is good and necessary for a healthy society, are defending an institution which is making them very wealthy. On the flip side, those who argue that abortion is an act of violence against an innocent human being, do so at great financial cost. There is no pay-off on the "pro-life" side. All the efforts to educate people about the reality of abortion consume large amounts of money, and there is no billion dollar product to refill the coffer. Think about it. Those who support abortion the most are growing rich off its continued availability while those who oppose abortion the most are losing money for their efforts. Who, then, is more likely to be honest and forthright about the issue at hand? Who is more likely to be motivated by principle and who is more likely to be motivated by profit?"

My argument is not to point a finger, but to bring forth the facts and figures, which I invite anyone to critique from their own sources:
$438 million is spent each year on first trimester abortions
$393 million is spent on late term abortions.
$337 million (or more) that Planned Parenthood (America's largest abortion provider) receives annually in
government grants and contracts.
By last count, Planned Parenthood (a tax-exempt organization!) has $951 million in total assets! http://www.abort73.com...

I would hope that you chiinchillin will join this good fight to make abortion illegal, along with the many people who read this debate. If we can make abortion illegal we can "restore the rights that were taken from us."

I would like to leave this round of the debate with a speech from Ronald Reagan
'We can not pretend that America is preserving her highest and most sacred ideal that each life is sacred.'
"When we've permitted the deaths of 15 million Children who will never laugh, never sing, never experience the joy
of human love, never strive to heal the sick, feed the poor, or make peace among the nations' 'These children are
denied the first and most basic right of human life.'
WATCH this video for more of the speech:
q=ronald+reagan+abortion+speech&view=detail&mid=25B448063B7C0DD084D225B448063B7C0DD084D2&FORM=VIRE
Debate Round No. 3
Chiinchillin

Pro

Chiinchillin forfeited this round.
Rightreform

Con

In this debate on abortion I would like to honor Candace Pickens who died, because she would not get an abortion. Her and her one year old baby Zachaeus were shot, relatives believe it is because she insisted on keeping her second child. Read more at
http://www.christiandaily.com...

In this last session of the debate I only want to invite readers to keep questioning what they hear. We never want to come to conclusions based on inaccurate, irrelevant, or ignored information.

Many people are misled by questions regarding the safety of the mother. Ectopic pregnancy is one such example. Anyone can challenge this point of view and find out about real survival rates, misdiagnosis', and new medical procedures available from the group of prolife supporters "Personhood". Here at http://www.personhoodinitiative.com...

Another argument may be that abortion is okay in the instance of rape.
Members of personhood make this statement:
"As someone who really cares about rape victims, I want to protect them from the rapist, and from the abortion, but not the baby. A baby is not the worst thing that could ever happen to a rape victim " an abortion is," said Personhood USA spokesperson Rebecca Kiessling.

"We need to educate the American public on the truth in this matter and not make public policy based on myth and misinformation," Kiessling, who was conceived in rape, added.
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com...

All of us have to give our due diligence not to distort data and state it inaccurately. If we do then we fail to think through the implications that we are ending a human life. In today's society it is difficult to challenge what is commonly accepted as the saying goes:
"The fish is always the last to see the water" because our habitation allows our minds to cancel out constancies.
Many of us have become desensitized to abortion. Now that we have learned the truth we have to take action to alert others, it is never too late. Now is the time to do the right thing, we can stop abortion!
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Rightreform 6 months ago
Rightreform
In 1939 Hitler devised a scheme by which severely disabled children could be murdered. Then once the war began this killing was extended to disabled adults as well, and then to all unwanted persons.
Nazi propaganda films justified the killing like this:
"They are inferior to animals." "Can we burden future generations with such an inheritance"

Embryos and fetuses are fully and individually human from fertilization on. If this were not true, there would be no need to even talk about rights of personhood. "Removing a fetus" would be the moral equivalent of pulling a tooth. This, however, is not the case, and so the debate must enter the political arena.
http://www.abort73.com...
Posted by Rightreform 6 months ago
Rightreform
The Fourteenth Amendment says that no state shall deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Until the 14th Amendment, African-American slaves were legally considered three-fifths of a person. Native Americans were exploited because they were treated as less than full persons. The racial distinctions used to label these groups as "non-persons" were conveniently invented to justify the violation of their rights.

In the United States today, "unwanted" children in the womb are systematically denied personhood. The elderly and the handicapped are at risk too. Why is it that, for them, being human not enough?
http://www.personhood.com...
https://search.yahoo.com...
Posted by chzyken 6 months ago
chzyken
It is impossible to define when life begins.

What is definable is how forcing a fetus to be born to a mother who does not want to have the fetus or is unable to financially support them harms the mother, the baby as they grow up, and society.
Posted by Debater12345678910 6 months ago
Debater12345678910
Vote 4 My Debate Pls (Con)
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Wylted 6 months ago
Wylted
ChiinchillinRightreformTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to con gor forfeit. Both debater's needed to do a but better at defining when life begins as well as not arguing past each other. Pro would do better setting up the terms of the debate next time to avoid things like giving her opponent an extra round.