The Instigator
DivaExcel
Con (against)
The Contender
Unstobbaple
Pro (for)

Abortion should be legal

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Debate Round Forfeited
Unstobbaple has forfeited round #4.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/19/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 539 times Debate No: 105168
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

DivaExcel

Con

Round 1: Accept my challenge
Round 2: Make your first argument
Round 3: Build upon your argument and counter my argument (if necessary)
Round 4: Bring your argument to a conclusion

I'm very interested in what the pro/for side has to say. Please, this is just a debate. I don't want any insults or swearing. Thank you.
Unstobbaple

Pro

I accept. Thanks to Con for setting this up.
Debate Round No. 1
DivaExcel

Con

Abortion is murder. The killing of an innocent human being is wrong, even if that human being has yet to be born. Unborn babies are considered human beings by the US government. The federal Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which was enacted "to protect unborn children from assault and murder," states that under federal law, anybody intentionally killing or attempting to kill an unborn child should "be punished... for intentionally killing or attempting to kill a human being." The act also states that an unborn child is a "member of the species homo sapiens." At least 38 states have passed similar fetal homicide laws.

Muslims regard abortion as haram meaning forbidden. Muslims typically cite the Quranic verse 17:32 which states that a fetus shouldn't be aborted out of fear of poverty. Pro-life Christians support their views with Scripture references such as that of Luke 1:15; Jeremiah 1:4"5; Genesis 25:21"23; Matthew 1:18; and Psalm 139:13"16. The Catholic Church believes that human life begins at conception as does the right to life; thus, abortion is considered immoral.

The Church of England also considers abortion to be morally wrong, though their position admits abortion when "the continuance of a pregnancy threatens the life of the mother".

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Unstobbaple

Pro

Thanks to Con for setting this up and welcome to DDO! I'll keep this brief since I need some sleep but I'll elaborate next round.

Abortion is not murder.

The intent is a termination of a pregnancy. It's analagous to a situation where a parent offers to use there body to filter there babies blood assuming this were possible and necessary to keep the baby alive. If the parent later decides it the process has become too much and they simply need to cut that life saving cord would it be lawful to force them to continue filtering the baby's blood? Of course not and it is even illegal to harvest organs to save lives if there was no stated agreement from the person ahead of time.

In your situation the equivalent action would be someone walking up and shooting that baby in the head which qualifies as murder. I'm skeptical as to whether I agree with that there should be an equal penalty for the killing of a first trimester baby, for instance, but I'll look into that in the next round.

A fetus should not be considered equivalent to a human and does not have the legal right of a citizen.

The prefrontal cortex which makes us uniquely human does not begin to form until the third trimester when most states in the U.S. have strict restrictions on the availability of abortions and the vast majority of abortions are in the first trimester when the brain is not remotely human. fetus is not considered a valid citizen with the rights that go along with that until after birth for good reason. Babies do not understand the basics of reality such as object permanance or even a distinction between itself and the outside world. They will not be able to state 'I think therefore I am' until much later. As it stands there is no positive evidence presented by Pro that the value of a 3 month fetus should receive the same rights as citizens or that they should be valued the same way.

Religious texts

These religious texts/practices should be disregarded by any voters. At best it is an appeal to a false authority and they are stand alone moral assertions or statements presented without any evidence as to their moral efficacy. Con would need outside research to confirm any connection to legality.


We derive morality inspite of Religious Texts, certainly not because of them. The Bible advocates slavery, sexual slavery, genocide, condemns homosexuality, advocates the death penalty for minor infractions such as disrespect of your parents and condemns people who simply can't believe the audacious claims of Jesus to an eternity of torture but allows pediphiles into heaven if they belive in Jesus before death. I'm not as familiar with the Quran but it advocates genocide and the vigalante execution of woman who have slept with men outside of wedlock (many interpretations this applies to rape victems) along with those who turn away from Islam and Infidels or those who are not Muslim. These texts are terrible for moral guidance and offer no facts or evidence to confirm any of the moral teaching is true or even useful. Hell the moral instruction is often evil when compared to the most basic of moral codes.

I'll post sourcing next round.
Debate Round No. 2
DivaExcel

Con

Fetuses feel pain during the abortion procedure. Maureen Condic, PhD, Associate Professor of Neurobiology and Anatomy and Adjunct Associate Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Utah School of Medicine, explains that the "most primitive response to pain, the spinal reflex," is developed by eight weeks gestation, and adds that "There is universal agreement that pain is detected by the fetus in the first trimester."

According to Kanwaljeet J. S. Anand, MBBS, DPhil, Professor of Pediatrics, Anesthesiology and Neurobiology at the University of Tennessee Health Science Center, "If the fetus is beyond 20 weeks of gestation, I would assume that there will be pain caused to the fetus. And I believe it will be severe and excruciating pain." Bernard N. Nathanson, MD, the late abortion doctor who renounced his earlier work and became a pro-life activist, stated that when an abortion is performed on a 12-week-old fetus, "We see [in an ultrasound image] the child"s mouth open in a silent scream... This is the silent scream of a child threatened imminently with extinction."

Abortions cause psychological damage. A 2008 peer-reviewed study published in the Scandinavian Journal of Public Health found that "Young adult women who undergo... abortion may be at increased risk for subsequent depression." A peer-reviewed 2005 study published in BMC Medicine found that women who underwent an abortion had "significantly higher" anxiety scores on the Hospital Anxiety and Depression Scale up to five years after the pregnancy termination.

A 2002 peer-reviewed study published in the Southern Medical Journal of more than 173,000 American women found that women who aborted were 154% more likely to commit suicide than women who carried to term. A 1996 study published in the British Medical Journal reported that the mean annual suicide rate amongst women who had an abortion was 34.7 per 100,000, compared with a mean rate of 11.3 per 100,000 in the general population of women. An Apr. 1998 Journal of Social and Clinical Psychology study of men whose partners had abortions found that 51.6% of the men reported regret, 45.2% felt sadness, and 25.8% experienced depression.

So before you start thinking that abortion is going to save you the psychological, financial and physical stress of raising a child, it won't.

https://abortion.procon.org...
Unstobbaple

Pro

Civil rights and right to control your body

The landmark 7-2 decision of Roe VS Wade in the United States in 1973 highlight this decision extending the right to privacy to encompass the right to terminate a pregnancy. As in my previous argument the goal is to end a Fetus dependance on the mother’s body and not to terminate the Fetus [1]. The precedent has been set, for instance relatives frequently refuse organ transplants and it would be illegal for anyone to force another to keep another alive at the cost of the health or even inconvenience of another. In fact no reason need be given. It is illegal to force another to use their body to keep another alive and this clearly applies to an abortion.

From the Supreme court decision in 1992, "The ability of women to participate equally in the economic and social life of the Nation has been facilitated by their ability to control their reproductive lives." Forcing women to use their body to sustain the life of a precursor to human life is asinine when we will not force others to do the same for their fully developed children after birth. The double standard is clear and unjustifiable.

Most abortions are first trimester

At this stage the fetus is completely dependant on the mother and cannot survive on its own. While it has a resemblance of a 2 ½ inch alien it does not have brain activity that is anywhere near that of a human being [2]. The aspects of the human brain that make us uniquely human and more advanced than other animals [3] does not begin to form until the third trimester. Most abortions are performed in the first trimester [1] when there is nothing that would qualify as human other than the precursors of some physical human features. This is a very safe and cautious way to avoid any question of loss of life and ensure all babies are brought into functional homes prepared to raise functional healthy children.

In vitro fertilization and the day after pill or first month abortions.

In vitro fertilization frequently fertilize multiple eggs and the precedent is set that these can be discarded and are not considered human. The day after pill is a form of abortion along with first month abortions are just an alternate version of this common procedure that is completely legal in many areas including virtually all industrialized including the U.S., Canada, China, Uk, Japan Italy, Spain etc etc [4].

It’s estimated that 66% of pregnancies end in miscarriages so this is a natural process [5]. It is not at all uncommon to have an early miscarriage or have an embryo fail to attach to the uterine wall. This again is similar to the day after pill which is a form of abortion that simulates this common natural occurrence.

First trimester Fetuses are completely dependant on their mother.

This is why abortions in this time must necessarily end in the termination of the fetus and I only say this to emphasize that this is not the goal. From Roe VS Wade "the word 'person,' as used in the Fourteenth Amendment [of the US Constitution], does not include the unborn." This is highlighted by the birth date at the start of our personhood that guarantees our citizenship and the rights afforded us.

Abortion is safe while pregnancy and premature child care has it’s risks

Con is neglecting cases where induced abortion has been determined to he necessary for the health and safety of the mother. In cases of rape and incest where this was recommended a 15% reduction in maternal morbidity was observed in 15 states [6].

The frequent claims that abortions can cause mental or physical health problems are not substantiated by the evidence. An exhaustive landmark study of the available research in 1989 found dismissed the risk of any major health risks and that any mental health risks were “miniscule from a public health perspective.” This confirmed what the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists stated that, “the physical sequelae of abortion were no different than those found in women who carried pregnancy to term or who had never been pregnant [7].”

“the American Psychological Association (APA) conducted an exhaustive review of the scientifically valid research on the subject and concluded that legal abortion of an unwanted pregnancy ‘does not pose a psychological hazard for most women.’”

“In the last five years alone, at least three more major reports reached similar conclusions. In 2006, the APA revisited the issue and created another task force on mental health and abortion. Its updated and comprehensive report, issued in 2008, reinforced its findings from two decades earlier: ‘The best scientific evidence published indicates that among adult women who have an unplanned pregnancy the relative risk of mental health problems is no greater if they have a single elective first-trimester abortion than if they deliver that pregnancy.’”

“In 2008, researchers at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health published their own analysis in which they concluded that ‘the highest-quality research available does not support the hypothesis that abortion leads to long-term mental health problems.’”

The AMRC revealed that, “rates of mental health problems for women with an unwanted pregnancy were the same whether they had an abortion or gave birth.” and found that “unwanted pregnancy [that] was associated with an increased risk of mental health problems”

Only 8 percent of women have abortions having not used birth control [1].

This dashes the idea that irresponsible adults use abortion as a form of birth control. If Con would like to support abstinence I would point out that abstinence pledges delay pregnancy by an average of one year.

Teenagers/addicts have grim prospects and are not prepared for children.

It is much more likely for them to end their education. Inadequate parental care is common in these circumstances. Public assistance is often needed to sustain the family and divorce is common.

With respect to the majority of industrialized nations Con carries the burden of proof since the right to abortion has already been enacted into law. She has failed to support a single reason to overturn these laws that I have not refuted. I have laid out the common conclusions of industrialized societies to support the widely recognized right to control your own reproductive system.





[1] https://www.thoughtco.com...
[2] https://www.mayoclinic.org...
[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
[4] http://www.ivf-worldwide.com...
[5] https://www.sciencedaily.com...
[6] https://www.publichealthpost.org...
[7] https://www.guttmacher.org...
Debate Round No. 3
DivaExcel

Con

Pro says that people have the right to their bodies but that doesn't mean that people have the right to kill an unborn child. Why even have unprotected sex if you are not ready to face the consequences of your own actions. Many people say it should be illegal because of rape but, just because someone hurt you doesn't make it right to hurt someone else.

Every day thousands of babies die. There are over 900,000 babies that have died since January 1, 2016. Every 30 seconds a baby is aborted. There are about 1.2 million abortions each year.

If anything I think giving up for adoption would be a healthier alternative. In conclusion, I don't think someone else should determine whether you live or die. The infant was brought to this world for a reason it is a gift from God.

The decision in Roe v. Wade was wrong and should be overturned. US Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia stated that the right to privacy defended in Roe v. Wade is "utterly idiotic" and should not be considered binding precedent: "There is no right to privacy [in the US Constitution]." In his dissenting opinion in Roe v. Wade, Justice William H. Rehnquist stated that an abortion "is not 'private' in the ordinary usage of that word. Nor is the 'privacy' that the Court finds here even a distant relative of the freedom from searches and seizures protected by the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution..." Furthermore, the 14th Amendment bars states from depriving "any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." The Supreme Court overreached in Roe v. Wade when it excluded unborn children from the class of "persons."

If women become pregnant, they should accept the responsibility that comes with producing a child. People need to take responsibility for their actions and accept the consequences. Having sexual intercourse, even when contraceptive methods are used, carries with it the risk of a pregnancy. The unborn baby should not be punished for a mistake made by adults. If women are unprepared to care for their children, they should at least put them up for adoption.

Furthermore, the legalization of abortion sends a message that human life has little value. Pope Francis condemned "'the throwaway culture'" in Jan. 2014, stating that "what is thrown away is not only food and dispensable objects, but often human beings themselves, who are discarded as 'unnecessary'. For example, it is frightful even to think there are children, victims of abortion, who will never see the light of day..." House Representative Randy Hultgren (R-IL) wrote in Jan. 2014 that "When we tell one another that abortion is okay, we reinforce the idea that human lives are disposable, that we can throw away anything or anyone that inconveniences us."

Abortion may also lead to future medical problems for the mother. A June 2003 study published by the peer-reviewed International Journal of Epidemiology estimated that about 15% of first-trimester miscarriages are attributed to a prior history of induced abortion, and stated that "Induced abortion by vacuum aspiration is associated with an increased risk of first-trimester miscarriage in the subsequent pregnancy." A 2013 Chinese study published in the peer-reviewed Indian Journal of Cancer found an association between breast cancer and a history of abortions. A Feb. 2014 study published in the peer-reviewed Cancer Causes and Control found that abortion "is significantly associated with an increased risk of breast cancer" and that "the risk of breast cancer increases as the number of [abortions] increases." Having an abortion done always carries the risk of not being able to become pregnant ever again in life.

In conclusion, I believe that abortion is wrong. The reasons for this is because, even though abortion may take a burden off of some women's shoulders, afterwards it's just putting weight on again. Abortion increases the risk of breast cancer. Another reason why abortion should be illegal is that killing a baby-an innocent human is wrong but torturing it is even worse. Also lastly a lot of religions forbid abortion. People can do a lot of things to avoid an issue like abortion. One of them is, to try to avoid unwanted pregnancies. A baby deserves the right to live.

https://letters2president.org...
https://abortion.procon.org.../
http://youthvoices.net...
http://www.healthguidance.org...
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by DivaExcel 8 months ago
DivaExcel
@Unstoppable Fellow Sherlock fan. Thanks for recommending the series. It's pretty exciting to know someone on the Internet who likes Sherlock
Posted by Unstobbaple 8 months ago
Unstobbaple
I noticed you liked elementary. My profile photo is Irene Adler from BBCs Sherlock. I'd definitely recommend the series.
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