The Instigator
Arganger
Pro (for)
The Contender
Topaet
Con (against)

Abortion should be made illigal

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/5/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 409 times Debate No: 104300
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

Arganger

Pro


To clarify my views, I believe the only reasonable situation for abortion is if the mother has a 50% risk of dying or higher.



You may post your argument first, and I will start by revolving my argument on disassembling your views.



I also ask any votes to be lenient on conduct both ways as this is an emotional topic of which both are likely to slip up at least once.


Topaet

Con

I accept this debate and will debate against the assertion that abortions should be made illegal.

The BoP is on Pro.

Definition:

Abortion = The deliberate termination of a pregnancy, usually before the embryo or fetus is capable of independent life.

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I will start this debate with Judith Jarvis Thomson’s (1929 - ) thought experiment:

Imagine that you wake up in the morning and find yourself back to back in bed with an unconscious violinist. A famous unconscious violinist. He has been found to have a fatal kidney ailment, and the Society of Music Lovers has canvassed all the available medical records and found that you alone have the right blood type to help. They have therefore kidnapped you, and last night the violinist's circulatory system was plugged into yours, so that your kidneys can be used to extract poisons from his blood as well as your own. The director of the hospital now tells you, "Look, we're sorry the Society of Music Lovers did this to you—we would never have permitted it if we had known. But still, they did it, and the violinist is now plugged into you. To unplug you, would be to kill him. But never mind, it's only for nine months. By then, he will have recovered from his ailment, and can safely be unplugged from you.

Should you be allowed to unplug yourself?

The thought experiment should imply that the human right to life can be trumped by a woman’s right to control her own body, when these two rights clash.

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Women should have the right to decide what to do with their bodies.

1. Rape:

The crime of forcing another person to have sexual intercourse with the offender against their will.

This fits perfectly with J. J. Thomson’s analogy, the woman does not choose to become pregnant, much like you not choosing to start providing life support to the violinist in the analogy.

So, if you should have the right to unplug yourself, a woman should also have the right to abort the rapist’s (and her) child.

Additionally, mothers of children, that were conceived in rape, may have difficulty accepting the child which could lead to further problems in the child’s upbringing and its relationship with its mother [1].


2. The right of pregnant women to have their health protected:

Here is an example of just some of the many possible complications of pregnancy [2]:

1. Gestational diabetes

2. Hyperemesis gravidarum

3. Pelvic girdle pain

4. High blood pressure

5. Deep vein thrombosis

6. Anemia

7. Infection

8. Peripartum cardiomyopathy

9. Hypothyroidism

10. Intrauterine bleeding

Women should have the right to protect their own body and well-being from suffering harm.


3. Banning abortions doesn’t actually stop women from having abortions:

- Abortion rates are similar in countries where it is legal and those where it is not [3].

- According to the W.H.O. Department of Reproductive Health and Research, “illegal abortions are likely to be unsafe, performed by poorly trained providers.” [3].

- “The procedure was made legal in South Africa in 1996, leading to a 90 percent decrease in mortality among women who had abortions, some studies have found.” [3]

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Conclusion:

Prohibiting abortions would not actually prevent them from happening, it would just lead to an increase in mortality among women who have abortions. Additionally, it would conflict with a woman’s right to control and protect their own body.

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Sources:

[1]: Supranational Criminal Prosecution of Sexual Violence p. 144

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org...

[3]: http://www.nytimes.com...


Debate Round No. 1
Arganger

Pro

Note: I'm cutting this way more close than I meant to, so some of this may be rushed.
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For the thought experiment, I actually do not think that someone should be allowed to kill the other person by unplugging themselves, rather the Society of Music Lovers should be held accountable for using you without consent, likely monetarily. Nine months of someones life isn't near as much as the lost life.

I do not believe in a right of anyone to inherently decide what to do with their bodies, I believe that it is a good thing to have, but other rights by far trump it.

And example would be, imagine you are a parent and your teenage child wants to kill himself. You admit him to a psychiatric hospital even though he wants to kill himself instead of treatment. This imposes on any right to do what he wants with his body very clearly, but protects his life and is more then just legal but highly encouraged and in some cases if you fail to address a known desire for suicide you can be legally held accountable for the death.

Another example is you walk on to a bridge and see someone about to jump off, if you pull them back almost everyone would agree you're in the right, but it would be going against the persons wishes and a violation of a persons right to control their body.

Now, in both cases one could argue it doesn't count because of mental illness, or age, but if 18.2% and 24% of Americans cannot have a right, then clearly it cannot be a true right. Under the law a minor cannot be killed nor can a mentally ill person, but both have their choices with their body overridden.
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http://newsfeed.time.com...
http://www.newsweek.com...
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A mother that conceived a child in rape can give the child up for adoption if she doesn't see herself up to raising a child that came from a violent act. Many people successfully and with minimal problems attaching to the child raise a child conceived in rape. Regardless no ones life should be measured in worth by their relationship with their mother.

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Getting an abortion isn't exactly much safer then going through with a pregnancy for the women and also poses an immediate and severe health risk to the unborn child involved, known as death.

https://ramahinternational.org...
http://www.aul.org...

For your last point I would like you to list the countries of which that is the case, as many counties that have outlawed abortion have very little reliable law enforcement and are very poor, meaning most women have very few resources to head to for their children.
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Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Katiebug2003 3 months ago
Katiebug2003
Fair enough. A baby itself is not evil but the sperm from the rapist is evil therefor the baby is evil I should know it happened to me
Posted by Arganger 3 months ago
Arganger
The rapist is the only evil thing there and even the rapist doesn't get a death sentence, so why should the innocent child die? Murder doesn't change the fact the rape happens and is more like getting beat up by a guy so you track down the person's girlfriend and kill her.

I plan to adopt children so some of my children could very well be conceived in rape. Please have the tact not to refer to them as " evil thing".
Posted by Katiebug2003 3 months ago
Katiebug2003
Abortion should not be illegal because let us say that you get raped and you end up being pregnant with the rapists baby. I personally think that you should be allowed to get rid of the evil thing put in your body without your choice. But it all depends on the circumstances
Posted by Katiebug2003 3 months ago
Katiebug2003
Abortion should not be illegal because let us say that you get raped and you end up being pregnant with the rapists baby. I personally think that you should be allowed to get rid of the evil thing put in your body without your choice. But it all depends on the circumstances
Posted by Katiebug2003 3 months ago
Katiebug2003
Abortion should not be illegal because let us say that you get raped and you end up being pregnant with the rapists baby. I personally think that you should be allowed to get rid of the evil thing put in your body without your choice. But it all depends on the circumstances
Posted by Katiebug2003 3 months ago
Katiebug2003
Abortion should not be illegal because let us say that you get raped and you end up being pregnant with the rapists baby. I personally think that you should be allowed to get rid of the evil thing put in your body without your choice. But it all depends on the circumstances
Posted by Katiebug2003 3 months ago
Katiebug2003
Abortion should not be illegal because let us say that you get raped and you end up being pregnant with the rapists baby. I personally think that you should be allowed to get rid of the evil thing put in your body without your choice. But it all depends on the circumstances
Posted by Katiebug2003 3 months ago
Katiebug2003
Abortion should not be illegal because let us say that you get raped and you end up being pregnant with the rapists baby. I personally think that you should be allowed to get rid of the evil thing put in your body without your choice. But it all depends on the circumstances
Posted by Katiebug2003 3 months ago
Katiebug2003
Abortion should not be illegal because let us say that you get raped and you end up being pregnant with the rapists baby. I personally think that you should be allowed to get rid of the evil thing put in your body without your choice. But it all depends on the circumstances
Posted by Katiebug2003 3 months ago
Katiebug2003
Abortion should not be illegal because let us say that you get raped and you end up being pregnant with the rapists baby. I personally think that you should be allowed to get rid of the evil thing put in your body without your choice. But it all depends on the circumstances
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