The Instigator
guyonthecomputer
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
kvaughan
Pro (for)
Winning
18 Points

Abortion. I please want to go against another Christian or one who has similar beliefs on the Bible

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,298 times Debate No: 1743
Debate Rounds (1)
Comments (3)
Votes (9)

 

guyonthecomputer

Con

Hello
Ok, I please hope that whoever is a person believes that whatever the Bible is true and those who vote have open views on the subject. Hello, welcome to a debate I made up.I do believe that abortion is a sin in many ways. Abortion is wrong lawfully and biblical. I know that killing some is bad, in the USA and the Bible. I will explain in mostly the Bible. Please be very open minded in this and very smart, like some of you are. Ok, here it goes.
Whether you believe in the Bible or God i'll tell you this.
-A women is pregnant, she has a baby, suddenly a crazy guy kills that lady and her baby. In court he is sentenced for killing two people rather than one person. Abortion kills one person and what happens? Nothing. That is wrong.
Now the law say everyone is a the 9th ammendment,
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
or other words, "everyone has equal rights, even if they are not YET a citizen.
Yes manythink that would be a jump, but that seems correct to me.
Numbers 35:12
They will be places of refuge from the avenger, so that a person accused of murder may not die before he stands trial before the assembly.
In other words, don't kill anyone before jury, unless proven guilty.
That also is in the law of the U-S-A. See, no matter what it is murder, even though. How can anyone say the Iraq war is wrong if they kill someone, when they can't speak back???
a related verse
Luke 6:41
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Another verse

Luke 6:42
How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Why say killing is wrong, if he or she kills. Especially abortion. What is abortion? When they kill a baby life support!!! You cannot get rid of someones life without a reason to kill.

www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/abortion.html I got this from this website. Check it if you want!

Here is what happens to the baby.

First, there's the suction type abortion. This is where the unborn child is literally vacuumed from the mother's womb during the early stages of pregnancy.

The currette-type abortion is where the child is cut from the mother's womb with a spoon-like object.

A third type is similar to a Caesarean operation. The baby is surgically removed from the mother and allowed to suffocate, because the child's lungs aren't developed.

The fourth type of abortion is the Salt Brine technique. With this method, the unborn child is literally "pickled" to death by the injection of a strong salt solution. A few days after the injection the child is still born.

There is currently much debate about partial-birth abortions. This is where a child is partially delivered, then stabbed in the skull to have his or her brains sucked out.

There is also much talk about the RU-486 abortion pill from France, also called "mifepristione" in America. This pill works by inhibiting pregnancy hormones, and is normally used within seven weeks from conception. At the present time, mifepristone is illegal in the U.S., but there is much political pressure to make it legal.

www.dougbrittonbooks.com/.../abortionoflifeinthewomb-sinandgodsforgiveness.asp

I got some info from that website.

The Bible does not use the terms "abortion" or "pro-life." But as the following Scriptures show, that does not mean Christians (or members of other religions) need wander what God thinks about unborn children or whether he considers a fetus a child.

Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers? (Job 31:15).

Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you even at my mother's breast. From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God (Psalm 22:9-10).

For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be (Psalm 139:13-16).

This is what the LORD says—he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you...(Isaiah 44:2).

Listen to me, O house of Jacob, all you who remain of the house of Israel, you whom I have upheld since you were conceived, and have carried since your birth. Even to your old age and gray hairs I am he, I am he who will sustain you. I have made you and I will carry you; I will sustain you and I will rescue you (Isaiah 46:3-4).

And now the LORD says—he who formed me in the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself, for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD and my God has been my strength (Isaiah 49:5).

The word of the LORD came to me, saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations" (Jeremiah 1:4-5).

When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy" (Luke 1:41-42, 44).

I was able to get this. from

ledux.blogspot.com/2006/01/partial-birth-abortion-ban-declared.html

We, like every other federal court that has considered the question, conclude that both the Constitution and the law as established by the Supreme Court require us to hold the Act unconstitutional.
The 64 page order affirmed the ruling of the district court and concluded the federal act is unconstitutional for three reasons:
We hold that the Act is unconstitutional for three distinct reasons, each of which is sufficient to justify the district court's holding. First, the Act lacks the constitutionally required health exception. Second, it imposes an undue burden on women's ability to obtain previability abortions. Third, it is unconstitutionally vague, depriving physicians of fair notice of what it prohibits and encouraging
arbitrary enforcement...We therefore affirm the district court's issuance of the permanent injunction.

Need more proof
www.clarencepage.net/index/light/letlive.html
www.abortion-and-bible.com/
www.priestsforlife.org/articles/canibeforgiven.html
www.lifesite.net/ldn/2008/jan/08010205.html
www.nrlc.org/news/2000/NRL10/lamb.html
kvaughan

Pro

I'm going to admit from the outset that I am not actually a Christian. Sorry. But, I think the spirit of your challenge is to argue against abortion without violating Christian principles. This is exactly what I will attempt to do.

1) First, the obligatory wall of biblical quotes defending my position:

"if men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life." -- Exodus 21:22-23

This quote indicates that if two men fight cause a woman to miscarry, but do not hurt her, then the one who hurt her shall pay her husband an amount determined by the judges. Only if the woman dies is the punishment to be death. Apparently, then, with respect to abortion, God is pro-choice since he considers a woman's life to be more important that that of the fetus.

"Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD." -- Numbers 3:15-16

This one indicates that when Moses took a census, he didn't include children less than one year, because God did not consider them people.

"Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." -- Genesis 38:24

This indicates that a pregnant woman was killed. If God is pro-life, then he would not kill the unborn baby since it is innocent in the crime of the mother.

I'd also like to point out that both of our quotes are hilariously vague. The Bible does not take a stance on abortion or fetal rights in any direct way. At best we can use the book to justify whatever bias we feel like imposing. This is the way the Bible has been used throughout history and this is no different.

2) God has created the world in such a way that fertilized eggs die on a regular basis:
"Only 50 to 60 percent of all conceptions advance beyond 20 weeks of gestation. Of the pregnancies that are lost, 75 percent represent a failure of implantation and are therefore not clinically recognized as pregnancies." (if you have access, link here: https://content.nejm.org..., citation is Norwitz, E.R. . "Implantation and the survival of early pregnancy." The New England Journal of Medicine vol. 34508 Nov. 2001 1400-1408.)

This indicates that normal sexual reproduction leads to immense deaths of fertilized eggs due to ‘natural' causes. If God is no concerned about the fetus, why would he set the world up this way?
3) Many Christians seem to make the assumption that abortion is wrong because the soul enters the fetus at the moment of conception. If so, identical twins are a very peculiar case indeed. In identical twins the egg is fertilized and then splits into two afterwards. Do identical twins have half a soul? Does one have a soul and not the other one? Do they share a soul? It seems likely that none of this is true because the soul does not enter at conception.

CONCLUSION: the Bible claims both that abortion is OK and not OK, so we look at the evidence. God made the world so that identical twins split post conception and so that the vast majority of fertilized eggs die. If God was pro-life this is not what we would expect.
Debate Round No. 1
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
"Many Christians seem to make the assumption that abortion is wrong because the soul enters the fetus at the moment of conception. If so, identical twins are a very peculiar case indeed. In identical twins the egg is fertilized and then splits into two afterwards. Do identical twins have half a soul? Does one have a soul and not the other one? Do they share a soul?"

Very interesting questions. Have you looked at any studies on identical twins? Are you aware of the hundreds of reported instances where one is injured or killed and the other, often hundreds or thousands of miles away feels it and is instantly aware? Many questions, indeed.
Posted by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
"This one indicates that when Moses took a census, he didn't include children less than one year, because God did not consider them people."

The reason infants weren't counted in census was NOT "because God did not consider them people", it was because of the very high infant mortality rates of the times.

Sorry, but it never ceases to amaze me how Christians and non-Christians alike take Biblical verses of context of both the surrounding passages and of the time they were written and try to shoe horn them to mean something entirely different.
Posted by paul_tigger 9 years ago
paul_tigger
I think you will have a hard time with this topic especially if you are a Christian. I cannot see how the Bible could be used to justify their stance in favor of abortion.
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 9 years ago
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