The Instigator
KiwiJudas
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
kohai
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Abortion

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
KiwiJudas
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/30/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 857 times Debate No: 16785
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (1)

 

KiwiJudas

Pro

Hello I hope this debate is beneficial to me as well my opponent.

I will choose Pro for this debate.

Definitions.

Abortion: The deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of the pregnancy.

I will let my opponent go first and get his point across.
kohai

Con

I thank my opponent for accepting this debate and would like to wish him the very best of luck. I shall use the same opening arguments I used before.

Contention 1: A logical reason why abortion is wrong.

I would like to begin with this quote:

"To prevent birth is anticipated murder; it makes little difference whether one destroys a life already born or does away with it in its nascent stage. The one who will be a man is already one." Tertullian (160 - 220)

1. Murdering a human is wrong
2. Abortion is murder
3. Therefore, abortion is wrong

Assertion 1: Murdering a human is wrong

Most sane people would agree with this assertion.

Assertion 2: Abortion is murder

By definition, murder is the unlawful killing of another human being.
We need to determine why the fetus should be under this protection.

Evidence 1: A fetus can dream

Many pro-abortion activists say that a fetus cannot think. However, we have discovered that they can, in fact, dream. Therefore, the fetus must be conscious.

I encourage any pro-choice activists to read the article Baby's First Dreams following this link
http://www.sciencedaily.com.........;

Evidence 2: A fetus, by definition, is a human!

Many pro-choice activists argue that the fetus is not a "human" until it is born. Let me ask you this question, what makes a human fetus any different than a dog fetus? Is the dog fetus not a "dog" because it is smaller or because it is not yet born? No. Then what makes human fetuses different?
Furthermore, whether you agree with that argument, I want to ask you and any pro-choice activists this question: "Why isn't a fetus a 'human?'"

Contention 2: Abortion is morally wrong because of the emotional side effects.

There are major consequences to ones actions. Abortion is no different. Here is a list of some of the emotional side-effects to an abortion.
Regret
Anger
Guilty feelings
Shame
Impared self-confidence
Depression
Anxiety
Lonliness
Souce
http://www.americanpregnancy.org.........

In fact, abortion INCREASES the risk for cancer! 8 medical organizations in 2006 RECOGNIZED this fact. For more information, go to this link http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com.........

All experts recognize first risk that abortion denies women an opportunity to reduce their risk for breast cancer through childbearing! (also from same page

Contention 3: There are better options than abortion

I contend that adoption is a better option than abortion. This is because adoption allows the fetus the right to life and it also allows the mother to be relieved of raising the child if she is unable to.
Debate Round No. 1
KiwiJudas

Pro

Thanks to con for this great debate I hope both of us can learn something positive from this debate.
First I will rebut my opponent's case then I will present my case.

Rebuttal I.

My opponent opens his case by stating that murdering a human is wrong. Most people will agree with this but yet we (U.S. Military, Army Etc.) murder men and women every single day to protect our freedom yet we don't call that murder, why because the intentions behind it to us is morally correct, to protect our freedom our way of life. So why should we believe is incorrect and murder when a girl's innocence is taken away by rape from her and she has to bear with the pain that a man forced on her without her choice. Why should she have to take on life with a kid that she had no intentions on having? Why should she have to take on the world by herself to be able to feed herself & her child? Will these people that are pro-life going to help her with her life and struggles? No, no one will she will have to take on the world by herself.

Rebuttal II.

A fetus can dream, let's see how about we focus on the kids that because of the situation they are living in can not dream can not have hope? My opponent here is worrying about taking the choice which was given to woman by this country to make decision of her body on her own. Let's focus on the millions of kids in school struggling to get on with life, let's focus on them to make sure they have a better life. A fetus can dream can my opponent exactly tell me what does a fetus dream about? The sounds he hears when the mother's food is digesting? If he does dream about these certain sounds then of course we should rip away women rights over their body because a fetus can dream of food digesting, It's very essential to the future of this country.

Rebuttal III.

I'd like to tell my opponent I am not here arguing whether fetus are humans or not but whether Abortion is correct or not. It is in the choice of the women to do whatever she wants with her body and not anyone in this world will ever take that right away from her because it is a God giving right.

Rebuttal IIII.

"There are major consequences to ones actions. Abortion is no different. Here is a list of some of the emotional side-effect to an abortion." I would like to start by saying that it is proven that the most reliable indicator of whether a woman will experience feelings of distress after an abortion is her emotional stability before the abortion. The women can be stressful but not because she had to terminate her human fetus but because the process of abortion is long and stressful. Yet the most common emotion after completing an abortion is relief. Most women have stress and are ashamed during this whole process because of the many people in this world that want to deprive her of her rights. She becomes stressful because of the much obstacles she has to face to receive abortion care. Also some of them end up in depression because they feel so alone because people believe what she is doing is "morally" incorrect. I tell this to my opponent, he wants to prevent these women to have these side effects maybe giving them support will help. Letting them know that we understand that at times we all make mistakes, that we understand that they would not like to see the face of the effect of a rape.

http://www.prochoice.org...

Rebuttal V.

My opponent states that Abortion increases cancer. I believe we should tell that to the millions of smokers out there, that smoking causes lung cancer. Because it causes lung cancer should we make it illegal to smoke and take that choice away from them? Let's look at alcohol, alcohol can affect our judgement and make us do things we wouldn't do when we're sober. Alcohol slows down our reflexes and our coordination, it can put us to sleep it can induce a comma and kill. Yet should we make it illegal for everyone to stop drinking because of the side affects of it? Life is about choices. Choices we make and no one else should make it for us.

http://www.quit-smoking-stop.com...
http://www.everybody.co.nz...

Rebuttal VI.

Adoption there are millions of children in adoption homes which spend their entire life's these without anyone coming to adopt them? I believe it is idiotic to add to these number let's worry about those children in adoption homes, not worry about bringing in more to the adoption homes.

Contention I.

I will now get my case across. I'd like to begin with these quotes just like my opponent did.

Frederica Mathewes-Green: "No woman wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a Porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal caught in a trap wants to gnaw off its own leg."

Diane British: "If (Vice President Dan Quayle) thinks it's disgraceful for an unmarried woman to bear a child, and if he believes that a woman cannot adequately raise a child without a father, then he'd better make sure that abortion remains safe and legal."

Katha Pollitt: "Young women need to know that abortion rights and abortion access are not presents bestowed or retracted by powerful men (or women) -- Presidents, Supreme Court justices, legislators, lobbyists -- but freedoms won, as freedom always is, by people struggling on their own behalf."

I would like to state quickly that most pro-life activist's biggest defense is that fetus are humans? Yet in my rebuttals alone I've shown a ton of reasons why it should be legal here are a few more.

In many cases women have to raise their children alone and my mother is a perfect example of it. She had to work two jobs day and night and was never able to spend quality time with her children. Just to be able to maintain us and put food on our plates. I would like to point out that not many women will be able to pull that off. I believe they shouldn't have to go through it this is a major reason why I am pro-choice because no women should have to go through the pain of raising a child on her own. According to studies in 2006, 12.9 million families in the U.S. were headed by a single-parent, 80% of which were headed by a female. Why should they have to go through these struggles?

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Contention II.

I would like to tell this to my opponent. Where in the law do Fetus have legal rights? Yet I am for sure that women do. Every single person in this world agree that children have rights not everyone agrees that Fetus of two, four, twenty-eight weeks are children. So I would like to state that by the law a Fetus does not have rights therefore it should not be considered by people like my opponent "MURDER."

Conclusion I.

I would like to conclude fast and simple, I've met thousands of people who are pro-choice but no one is pro-abortion. Do you think we like terminating a fetus life? We do not, but It's the woman's choice whether she is ready or not. Not mines nor my opponent's, therefore we should not deny them their right of CHOICE.

Thank You Vote Pro.
kohai

Con

Thank you for replying to my argument.

RR1: My opponent assirts that my 1st premises can't be right. However, there is a difference between KILLING and MURDER

Murder is defined as the UNLAWFUL killing of a person. Killing is defined as the act of ending the life of an organizm.

There are only cases where killing can be justified
  1. Self-defense
  2. War
  3. Death penalty
  4. Euthenasia (when consentual)

Abortion can NEVER be truly justified.

So why should we believe is incorrect and murder when a girl's innocence is taken away by rape from her and she has to bear with the pain that a man forced on her without her choice. Why should she have to take on life with a kid that she had no intentions on having?

I didn't expect to get far in this debate without the mention of rape. Abortion is punishing the child for something the child had no control over. Would it be okay for a woman to kill a todler if it reminds her of a past incident that was traumatising for her?
The MAN should be punished, NOT the CHILD!

I am also going to point out that pregnacy due to rape is VERY low and VERY rare. With proper medical attention and treatment, a woman can PREVENT a pregnacy.

Why should she have to take on the world by herself to be able to feed herself & her child? Will these people that are pro-life going to help her with her life and struggles? No, no one will she will have to take on the world by herself.

This argument is explained in the argument that adoption is always a better option.

RR2

A fetus can dream, let's see how about we focus on the kids that because of the situation they are living in can not dream can not have hope? In this content, dream is not hope of a future, but rather dreams are defined as the succession of images, ideas, emotions and sensation in sleep.

My opponent here is worrying about taking the choice which was given to woman by this country to make decision of her body on her own. Let's focus on the millions of kids in school struggling to get on with life, let's focus on them to make sure they have a better life. A fetus can dream can my opponent exactly tell me what does a fetus dream about? No. But can you tell me what I dream about at night?

The sounds he hears when the mother's food is digesting? If he does dream about these certain sounds then of course we should rip away women rights over their body because a fetus can dream of food digesting, It's very essential to the future of this country.

RR5

Smoking=/=abortion
This is talking about something completely different. Furthermore, my opponent is under the assumption that I am against taking away those rights.

Smoking and alchohol is damage that you do to yourself voluntairly. However, in cases of abortion, the woman not only hurts herself voluntairly, but also kills a person that is defenseless, inoccent, and has no way to voice his/her concent on the murder.

RR6

Adoption there are millions of children in adoption homes which spend their entire life's these without anyone coming to adopt them? I believe it is idiotic to add to these number let's worry about those children in adoption homes, not worry about bringing in more to the adoption homes.

My opponent asserts that adoption is not a better option because the child may not be adopted. However, the question is what if the child IS adopted? Like myself.

RC2

Where in the law do they not have rights?

"Life, liberty, persuit of happiness..." those are our most fundemental rights. To say that a person can just kill a fetus is to deny them the right to life.
The right to life>The right to kill

RConclusion

To be prochoice about abortion is to be proabortion.

What is legal is NOT always right. *refutation of previous argument*

Debate Round No. 2
KiwiJudas

Pro

Thanks for responding.

Rebuttal I.

I believe my opponent made it easier for me. He said "Murder is defined as the UNLAWFUL killing of a person." I would like for him to tell me what law prohibits a mother from terminating her Fetus? It's her body, not my opponent's nor mines is hers. Unfortunately for him she has the final decision. Which is why abortion is legal in the United States. Since January 1973, because the Supreme Court understood that it is up to woman to make the final decision and going against that will be unlawful.

Rebuttal II.

My opponent states that Abortion can never be justified. So rape does not justify the reason why a women would want an abortion? My opponent also states that rape is very low and very rare. Does that mean it does not occur?

Rebuttal III.

I believe my opponent is not reading my rebuts thoroughly I did not mean dreams are hope. I mean that there are kids which lose all hope because of the situation they are living in.

Rebuttal IIII.

Exactly my opponent is stating that they dream and he states that dreams are defined as the succession of images, idea, emotions and sensation in sleep. How can fetus have a succession of images when he hasn't seen anything but pitch blackness, where does he get ideas from?

Rebuttal V.

I am not assuming that you are against smoking & drinking but you stated that abortion causes cancer making it seem that we should make abortion illegal because it causes cancer. So does cigarettes should we ban those as well my dear friend?

Rebuttal VI.

"However, in cases of abortion, the woman not only hurts herself voluntairly, but also kills a person that is defenseless, inoccent, and has no way to voice his/her concent on the murder." I tell my opponent to do his research. Murder is the unlawful killing from one human being to another. A fetus is not considered a human being to the Government because it does not know It's own rights nor can it demand them. Yet a woman can. Plus how is it a murder when a fetus have no legal rights? Since Roe v. Wade case in 1973 the Supreme Court was able to define that the pre-born were not citizens therefor they have no rights. My opponent is clearly claiming his statements by feelings and his morals yet I ask him to please start debating by what's fact and lawful.

Rebuttal VII.

No, what I believe is we have enough kids without parent's in adoption homes I certainly doubt that we need more children without a mother nor a father.

Rebuttal VIII.

I feel silly rebutting this because is kind of silly but never the less. Those rights are given to citizens of the United States, and since 1973 the Supreme Court It's self came to the decision that pre-born are not citizens. Therefor those rights are not in action for them.

Conclusion II.

You are seriously incorrect. I believe in pro choice meaning I believe there is no one in this world that can deny women the right's of choice over their own body. Even if my personal idea is that abortion is incorrect. My opponent ends up stating "What is legal is NOT always right." He is speaking through his personal opinions and what he believes is morally correct. When I debate I talk about it with a political stance not paying attention with my personal feelings. I recommend my opponent does the same. I conclude with this again no one can deny a true citizen of It's rights & since 1973 in this situation the only citizen is the women not the fetus. I'd like for my opponent to stop making the accusation of calling woman murderer's which go through the process of abortion since that can be a very hurtful thing. I'd also like to tell my opponent wether is legal or not woman will still have abortions why, because God gave the right to woman of having control of their body and their life. Woman's should never be deprived of the freedom of choice.

Thank You Vote Pro.
kohai

Con

kohai forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
KiwiJudas

Pro

Wether the opponent didn't find the time to rebut my cases or he simply couldn't, I believe it was his responsibility to send me a message. Either way my cases still stand if he wishes to rebut them.

I believe is obvious to vote pro.
kohai

Con

kohai forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by KiwiJudas 5 years ago
KiwiJudas
Yeah his cases we real weak. He also never finished the debate.
Posted by BlackVoid 5 years ago
BlackVoid
"To prevent birth is anticipated murder"

So condoms and abstinence are bad?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by OMGJustinBieber 5 years ago
OMGJustinBieber
KiwiJudaskohaiTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.