The Instigator
KiwiTortuga
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
Deathbeforedishonour
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Abortion

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
KiwiTortuga
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/8/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 670 times Debate No: 16924
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

KiwiTortuga

Pro

I'd like to thank the opponent for accepting this debate.

---- Definitions ----

Abortion - the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.

Side note: If the opponent dislikes my definition he/she can put forward his/her definition.


---- Pro & Con ----

Pro - I will choose pro for this debate I believe woman have the first and final choice over their body.

Con - Will be chose by the opponent he/she will protect his belief that woman should not be allowed to have abortions.

---- Rules ----

Round 1 will be for acceptance, then we will move on from there. Please no new cases in round 4.

Take the debate just as a debate nothing more nothing less.

Have fun.
Deathbeforedishonour

Con

I accept this debate as well as my opponent's defintion. I would like to wish him luck (hes going to need it) :)
Debate Round No. 1
KiwiTortuga

Pro

Thanks to the opponent for accepting the debate and I wish him luck.


---- Contentions ----

1. I always like to give a brief history on the topic that I am debating, and how It's looked at by the government. In this case, the United States government. So let me begin, ever since the Roe vs. Wade case in 1973 woman have had the right to go through the process of an abortion in all 50 states of the United States. Therefore from 1973 woman have the right to terminate a fetus life without any repercussions. Now I will state my case, why should abortion remain legal? It's quite simple, It's her own body and she has the first and final decision upon it. We can never understand the situation a woman desires an abortion, but whatever the reason may be even if It's the simple factor that she doesn't want a baby into her life at the moment is her personal and final decision. I believe no one should come between the rights that woman have earned and they certainly deserve.

http://www.law.cornell.edu...

2. I would like to ask this simple question to the audience and to the opponent. Let's suppose for a few minutes that abortion was illegal, many pro-life would be rejoicing over the factor that fetus will have the right to life. But what pro-life citizen's do not understand is, that according to the law of the United States fetus don't have rights, therefore they do not have the right of life. I also ask this, abortion is legal in all of the 50 states in the United States what rights are we depriving pro-life citizen's from? Yet it is up to my knowledge that if abortion was illegal, we would be depriving woman from their rights.

3. I will also tell this to the opponent and audience. Hillary Clinton once said a few words, and these words I believe have significant value because It's truthful. " I've met thousands, and thousands, of pro-choice. Yet I've never met a pro-abortion." I will like to tell the opponent and audience we don't believe in "killing" a fetus but we believe that woman deserve the choice. That's something of extreme importance in this debate and that is choices. Choices that I nor anyone else should deny to woman, because wether is the wrong or correct choice It's there personal life and we as citizen's should respect each other's privacy and choices.

4. I will like to state that in China woman are forced to have only one child, because of the enormous population they have in their country. The one child policy took place in 1979, and ever since then It has been successful to control the population growth. Even though some people may not see this as a big issue, I will like to point out what would happen if this world become over populated. When a country has such a huge amount of citizen's it's extremely difficult to be able to feed them all and sooner or later they will end up dying of hunger. It also affects the environment overpopulation will mean less farmlands and forests which our planet demands. Not only this but the extreme waste that would go into our oceans. Overpopulation will cause the the termination of our world as a whole if we do not control it. So wether we like to accept it or not we need abortions. Over 4 million kids are born each year in the United States and It's expected to have a population total of 8 - 10.5 billions humans on earth between the year 2040 and 2050. This will create chaos, so wether the opponent will like to accept it or not we have enough babies born each day to be worrying about those not being born.

http://factsanddetails.com...
http://geojoedr.tripod.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com...
http://civilliberty.about.com...

---- Conclusion ----

I will conclude quickly I believe that we need abortion for the over well being of the entire world but not only do I believe it I proved it. I also prove that wether our morals are for abortion or not It's their final decision. I will finish telling this to the opponent and audience, today we may make abortion legal and some may protest against tomorrow we will all demand woman for abortion when we see ourselves with over 10 billion people on earth.

Thank you and vote Pro.
Deathbeforedishonour

Con

Rubttle 1: My opponent basically says that the women has the right to manage her own body, and since the baby or fetus is in the mother then the mother has control over that babie's life. This is bad logic. If I were to use this same logic then I would be able to shoot my 1-year old, just because it is in my house and I don't want it there. If I were to do this I would be arrested and most likely even be put to death for it. So is the case of a fetus in a woman, the woman may have control over here own body but she has no control over the body of a living breathing human being.

Rebuttle 2: Under the current laws abortion is legal, therefore the fetus has no rights. The purpose of this debate is to determine whether a women should be allowed to get a abortion or not. So I am arguing that the law should be changed. The fetus is a human being that lives in the U.S. and therefore should have rights. The baby/fetus should have the right to live. Also, my opponent asks what rights are pro-life people being denied? The we are not arguing for our rights because we are not as selfish as pro-choice people, we are arguing for the babie's rights. As for the mother's rights, she has the right to put that baby up for adoption.

Rebuttle 3: My opponent again uses bad logic. He says we should not deny a woman the choice to kill her baby. If this true then the same example I gave in my first rebuttle can also be used here. A woman does not deserve the right to kill a baby, whether the baby is in or out of the woman's body is irelevant the woman has no control over the babie's life.

Rebuttle 4: MY opponent bases this contention on the fact that the Earth could be over populated. My answer to this is basically China's answer rather then killing people in this case a fetus, we should just pass laws saying how many babies each woman can have. This will regulate the number of babies being born and stop over population.

Contention 1: All throughout my opponents speech about women's rights, I was thinking what about the babie's rights. The baby from the time of conseption is a human being. The human fetus is technically in the U.S. which guarrantees rights to children. Even though the baby is living inside the woman, it is no diferent then the baby living in a house, the baby is still a baby. I have already given a example concerning the fact women may have control over there bodies, but they have no control over the bodies of others including the babie's.

Contention 2: My opponent and many other pro-choice people do not understand something. This that we live in a civilized society. A civilized socirty can not be civilized if it allows another human being to kill another human being without punishment. Abortion is the act of killing another human being whether you call it a fetus, baby, or child it is still a human being that has done nothing to deserve to die.

Contention 3: Abortion should not be legal also because there are other alternatives. Adoption is the best alternative. Rather then kill the fetus/baby the mother can just simpley give the baby away and she no longer has to deal with the problem. With 1.5 million American families wanting to adopt a child, there is no such thing as a unwanted child.

Contention 4: Abortion should not be legal because it comes with a long list of health hazards to the mother's health. These things are:

- Blocked fallopian tubes
- Weakened Cervix
- Uterine scarring
- damage to the woman's reproductive system may make her unable to conceive in the future.
- Face the increase in the probability of an increase in tubal babies.
- hysterectomies
-miscariages
-still birth
- pre mature births
- increases the chances of breast, uterine, and cerrical cancer.
- increases psychological pain and stress

The purpose of laws are to pretect the people. Abortion however, hurts the fetus and the mother. So, in order to save the mother and the fetus from the mother abortion should be outlawed.

Contention 5: Abortions are funded by tax dollars. Many people who pay good money so tht the state cn do it's job are against abortion. So is it right to spend peoples moneys on something they are totally against? Most would say no it isn't right.

In conclusion,

Women should not have the right to harm another individual.

Abortion is unneccessary since the woman can just put her baby up for adoption.

Abortion not only harms another human being, but also harms the mother.

Abortion should be outlawed.

Vote Con!

http://www.buzzle.com...
Debate Round No. 2
KiwiTortuga

Pro

Thanks to the opponent for the response. I will also like to point out that the way the opponent wrote out the word rebuttal is incorrect. He wrote "rebuttle" this is sadly incorrect. Just wish to point that out to him for future references and for him not to commit the same mistake in future debates.

---- Rebuttals ----

1. If I were to use this same logic then I would be able to shoot my 1-year old, just because it is in my house and I don't want it there.

This example is extremely terrible and I will show how. There is a big difference when the fetus is inside the woman's body and when the fetus becomes a child and It's born into the United States then it becomes a citizen. A fetus is not considered a citizen ever since Roe vs. Wade case which I recommend the reader to do research on. Once that baby is born once that umbilical cord is cut, the baby has officially become a citizen of the United States and since then does he have rights. Also even though this baby can not speak out for his rights that is why the Government exist in the case, that the mother It's self like the opponent shows an example of kills or hurts the baby if the authorities find out they will make sure the child gets justice. I will repeat myself once again a fetus is not considered nor a baby, nor a child, nor a human being nor a citizen, until he/she is born.

2. The fetus is a human being that lives in the U.S. and therefore should have rights. The baby/fetus should have the right to live. Also, my opponent asks what rights are pro-life people being denied? The we are not arguing for our rights because we are not as selfish as pro-choice people, we are arguing for the babie's rights. As for the mother's rights, she has the right to put that baby up for adoption.

Obviously the opponent didn't go through my sources, because It's states clearly that ever since the Roe vs. Wade case fetus are not considered human beings nor citizens. They have no rights when it comes to the law of the united States. Wether the opponent is debating it should change, I am showing that it should stay the same. The opponent states that the fetus lives in the U.S.A. This is incorrect he lives in the womb of the mother. The mother lives in the United States and is a citizen of the country and has inalienable rights therefore his case is inaccurate. I believe It's sad that through my whole debate I never offended any type of people and their belief's yet the opponent believes people like me & the other 51% in this website are selfish but I will move on. The opponent uses all these words to describe fetus such as baby, human being, child which are all wrong. I will show the definition of these words and prove how they can not be used to describe a fetus.
http://www.law.cornell.edu...

Baby: a very young child, one newly or recently born.

Obviously the word baby can't be used to describe fetus since a fetus is not born yet.

Human Being: a man, woman, or child of the species. Distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance.

Therefore a fetus can't be called a Human Being either, because doing so will be incorrect.

3. My opponent again uses bad logic. He says we should not deny a woman the choice to kill her baby. If this true then the same example I gave in my first rebuttle can also be used here. A woman does not deserve the right to kill a baby, whether the baby is in or out of the woman's body is irelevant the woman has no control over the babie's life.

The opponent states that I use bad logic, with my statement. Yet if he believes that It's relevant killing a born child and fetus then he is sadly mistaken. I've pointed out before that a born child has inalienable rights , a fetus does not. I will like to point out that the woman does have control over the body of the fetus, since she is the one suffering the pain of carrying a fetus.

4. This is the difference between giving choices and demanding. We can't force a woman in the United States to have only one child. Is their personal life and their personal choices, that would go against the democracy the United States so much stands for. So the answer the opponent states is not as easy as he makes it sound. But we can give woman the choice to have abortion's we do not demand it just give them the choice. Which is an essential part to the democracy that stands till this date in the United States. I will go in a bit further.

Democracy: a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

In a democratic society everyones voice is heard. The government listens to the voices of pro-life and pro-choice citizens and made the decision that to give It's citizens true democracy they had to legalize abortion, because if they didn't they would be depriving woman of their freedom of choice and freedom to live their personal life as they wish.

---- Rebuttals To Opponents Cases ----

1. I feel like he's repeating himself and he's forcing me to do the same. The opponent states that he was wondering where the baby's rights are. Babies do have rights, fetus do not because they are not born therefore they are not citizens of the United States. The 14th amendment strictly states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." I will like to point out the word born! Fetus are not born to the United States therefore they are not considered citizens nor have rights. He wants to point that because them woman is a citizen of the United States it gives the baby rights, I ask this to the opponent what if it oh so happened that this woman suddenly leaves the country before the baby is born? What if the fetus is born dead? Just because the mother lives in the United States and is a citizen of the country it does not make the fetus a citizen.

2. The opponent believes that killing should not be permitted in a civilized society. Then why are we killing thousands of men in Iran & Afghanistan? Does this justify killing, because we're doing it to "protect" our country? Let's get real. The opponent clearly keeps stating that fetus is a human being, can he show me evidence like I showed him?

3. The opponent states that a woman has the choice of putting the fetus after it is born for adoption. This is true, but we can see clearly that this is a choice. A choice that if they do not want to comply with they do not have to. Wether the opponent likes it or not woman have the final choice on wether they want to bring a baby into this world. She doesn't have to put it up for adoption so you and all other pro-life citizens can feel morally accomplished.

4. This is always brought up for every debate on abortion. So I will put forward the same rebut I always put forward. Smoking causes cancer and kills, should we make it illegal? No we shouldn't because, people are aware that smoking causes cancer and is capable of killing but is the people's CHOICE. People are aware that abortion is harmful but they still want an abortion and we are no one to deny it.

5. People will have to pay taxes either way wether abortion was legal or illegal. The government or states just uses these taxes now for abortion. His case is strictly invalid.

---- Conclusion ----

In the United States people have freedom of choice and we shouldn't deprive them of that freedom to accommodate someone else's morals.

Thank you vote Pro!



Deathbeforedishonour

Con

Deathbeforedishonour forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
KiwiTortuga

Pro

KiwiTortuga forfeited this round.
Deathbeforedishonour

Con

Deathbeforedishonour forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by KiwiTortuga 5 years ago
KiwiTortuga
KeytarHero is no problem, I just made it public. I believe he was afraid to lose since he believes everyone in this site is pro-choice.
Posted by Deathbeforedishonour 5 years ago
Deathbeforedishonour
This is my first debate on abortion. lol This should be interesting.. :)
Posted by KeytarHero 5 years ago
KeytarHero
Hey, I'm second on the list of against abortion. :D

Also, Joshua, why should the Instigator change the topic just because you don't want to debate it?
Posted by BlackVoid 5 years ago
BlackVoid
http://www.debate.org...

Since when was 51% everyone?
Posted by KiwiTortuga 5 years ago
KiwiTortuga
As you wish.
Posted by joshuaXlawyer 5 years ago
joshuaXlawyer
everyone on this site is pro choice i refuse to debate this change the topic
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by kohai 5 years ago
kohai
KiwiTortugaDeathbeforedishonourTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Ff